Warning to all 0L's

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:18 pm

Don't go to law school anytime within at least the next five years. Even with a full scholly or acceptance to HYS. I am speaking on behalf of the legal profession as a whole. There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore at the moment. There are nearly twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal jobs available. You are not needed, you are not special, you are not necessary. Want to help the poor? Go do it. Want to help change the world? Go do it. Want to make money? Go attempt to do it. A legal education is not necessary for any of these.

Quite frankly, about 90% of those in law school shouldn't be there to begin with. If you are unsure what you want to do with your life, law school is not the answer. It is not a second chance at finding yourself. It is not college 2.0. It is a professional school for a profession not needing any more people in it at the moment.

To those of you planning on taking out loans. DON'T. It is not a good investment and student loans are both killing the economy and the futures of those who take them out. You can't get rid of them, you're an indentured servant. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy.

This warning is especially being directed at those coming straight from undergrad. Don't waste your 20's on law school and the legal field. For those of you reading who think this is good advice for the thousands of 0L's who don't totally know what they are doing, but since you got a 170+ and are 26 you are the exception, this still applies to you. Even if you do everything right, we still don't need you. Won't for a while. Go do something else.

Sincerely,
Tyler Durden
Last edited by LAWSCHOOLREALITY on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:21 pm

tl;dr

also:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore

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Yeshia90
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Yeshia90 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:22 pm

Good thing I'm Jewish.

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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:22 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:tl;dr

also:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore


Then you clearly read it.

Real Madrid
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:29 pm

Sorry your career didn't pan out the way you wanted it to, but you're preaching to the choir here, kiddo. Don't tell us what we should and shouldn't do. We don't come to where you work and knock the sample corndog out of your hand.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:31 pm

LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Don't go to law school anytime within at least the next five years. Even with a full scholly or acceptance to HYS. I am speaking on behalf of the legal profession as a whole. There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore at the moment. There are nearly twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal jobs available. You are not needed, you are not special, you are not necessary. Want to help the poor? Go do it. Want to help change the world? Go do it. Want to make money? Go attempt to do it. A legal education is not necessary for any of these.

Quite frankly, about 90% of those in law school shouldn't be there to begin with. If you are unsure what you want to do with your life, law school is not the answer. It is not a second chance at finding yourself. It is not college 2.0. It is a professional school for a profession not needing any more people in it at the moment.

To those of you planning on taking out loans. DON'T. It is not a good investment and student loans are both killing the economy and the futures of those who take them out. You can't get rid of them, you're an indentured servant. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy.

This warning is especially being directed at those coming straight from undergrad. Don't waste your 20's on law school and the legal field. For those of you reading who think this is good advice for the thousands of 0L's who don't totally know what they are doing, but since you got a 170+ and are 26 you are the exception, this still applies to you. Even if you do everything right, we still don't need you. Won't for a while. Go do something else.

Sincerely,
The Ghost of Christmas Future


Full ride to CCN is actually a very good decision for some people. Take the person whose family isn't too rich, didn't go to a strong undergrad, did alright in basket-weaving major, and did well on the LSAT. What else could they do with such a high probability of making a significant income after three years? Biglaw from CCN isn't a sure thing, but it's probably more of a sure thing than the other options for this type of person.

Your shtick is way too strong here. Law school is a horrible decision for a lot of people. You trying to make it a horrible decision for everyone just gets people to ignore the message entirely. So stop, you're just hurting the message rather than helping spread it.

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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:32 pm

Real Madrid wrote:Sorry your career didn't pan out the way you wanted it to, but you're preaching to the choir here, kiddo. Don't tell us what we should and shouldn't do. We don't come to where you work and knock the sample corndog out of your hand.


1) Faulty assumption
2) Wrong use of phrase

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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:37 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Don't go to law school anytime within at least the next five years. Even with a full scholly or acceptance to HYS. I am speaking on behalf of the legal profession as a whole. There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore at the moment. There are nearly twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal jobs available. You are not needed, you are not special, you are not necessary. Want to help the poor? Go do it. Want to help change the world? Go do it. Want to make money? Go attempt to do it. A legal education is not necessary for any of these.

Quite frankly, about 90% of those in law school shouldn't be there to begin with. If you are unsure what you want to do with your life, law school is not the answer. It is not a second chance at finding yourself. It is not college 2.0. It is a professional school for a profession not needing any more people in it at the moment.

To those of you planning on taking out loans. DON'T. It is not a good investment and student loans are both killing the economy and the futures of those who take them out. You can't get rid of them, you're an indentured servant. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy.

This warning is especially being directed at those coming straight from undergrad. Don't waste your 20's on law school and the legal field. For those of you reading who think this is good advice for the thousands of 0L's who don't totally know what they are doing, but since you got a 170+ and are 26 you are the exception, this still applies to you. Even if you do everything right, we still don't need you. Won't for a while. Go do something else.

Sincerely,
The Ghost of Christmas Future


Full ride to CCN is actually a very good decision for some people. Take the person whose family isn't too rich, didn't go to a strong undergrad, did alright in basket-weaving major, and did well on the LSAT. What else could they do with such a high probability of making a significant income after three years? Biglaw from CCN isn't a sure thing, but it's probably more of a sure thing than the other options for this type of person.

Your shtick is way too strong here. Law school is a horrible decision for a lot of people. You trying to make it a horrible decision for everyone just gets people to ignore the message entirely. So stop, you're just hurting the message rather than helping spread it.


Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:39 pm

LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Sorry your career didn't pan out the way you wanted it to, but you're preaching to the choir here, kiddo. Don't tell us what we should and shouldn't do. We don't come to where you work and knock the sample corndog out of your hand.


1) Faulty assumption
2) Wrong use of phrase

good job. his insult was not founded on solid logic so it becomes meaningless. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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typ3
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby typ3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:41 pm

Or get a full ride to law school. Party for 3 years with post-grad employment already lined up. Basically being paid to network for 36 months-- hard to beat.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:41 pm

typ3 wrote:Or get a full ride to law school. Party for 3 years with post-grad employment already lined up. Basically being paid to network for 36 months-- hard to beat.

ummmmmmm?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:43 pm

LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Don't go to law school anytime within at least the next five years. Even with a full scholly or acceptance to HYS. I am speaking on behalf of the legal profession as a whole. There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore at the moment. There are nearly twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal jobs available. You are not needed, you are not special, you are not necessary. Want to help the poor? Go do it. Want to help change the world? Go do it. Want to make money? Go attempt to do it. A legal education is not necessary for any of these.

Quite frankly, about 90% of those in law school shouldn't be there to begin with. If you are unsure what you want to do with your life, law school is not the answer. It is not a second chance at finding yourself. It is not college 2.0. It is a professional school for a profession not needing any more people in it at the moment.

To those of you planning on taking out loans. DON'T. It is not a good investment and student loans are both killing the economy and the futures of those who take them out. You can't get rid of them, you're an indentured servant. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy.

This warning is especially being directed at those coming straight from undergrad. Don't waste your 20's on law school and the legal field. For those of you reading who think this is good advice for the thousands of 0L's who don't totally know what they are doing, but since you got a 170+ and are 26 you are the exception, this still applies to you. Even if you do everything right, we still don't need you. Won't for a while. Go do something else.

Sincerely,
The Ghost of Christmas Future


Full ride to CCN is actually a very good decision for some people. Take the person whose family isn't too rich, didn't go to a strong undergrad, did alright in basket-weaving major, and did well on the LSAT. What else could they do with such a high probability of making a significant income after three years? Biglaw from CCN isn't a sure thing, but it's probably more of a sure thing than the other options for this type of person.

Your shtick is way too strong here. Law school is a horrible decision for a lot of people. You trying to make it a horrible decision for everyone just gets people to ignore the message entirely. So stop, you're just hurting the message rather than helping spread it.


Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Who said anything about the larger problem? I'm saying it can be perfectly rational for a person to go to law school because of concerns relating just to that individual. Biglaw presents an opportunity for income that might not otherwise be readily available to some people from certain backgrounds.

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typ3
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby typ3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:43 pm

LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Don't go to law school anytime within at least the next five years. Even with a full scholly or acceptance to HYS. I am speaking on behalf of the legal profession as a whole. There are too many lawyers and we don't need anymore at the moment. There are nearly twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal jobs available. You are not needed, you are not special, you are not necessary. Want to help the poor? Go do it. Want to help change the world? Go do it. Want to make money? Go attempt to do it. A legal education is not necessary for any of these.

Quite frankly, about 90% of those in law school shouldn't be there to begin with. If you are unsure what you want to do with your life, law school is not the answer. It is not a second chance at finding yourself. It is not college 2.0. It is a professional school for a profession not needing any more people in it at the moment.

To those of you planning on taking out loans. DON'T. It is not a good investment and student loans are both killing the economy and the futures of those who take them out. You can't get rid of them, you're an indentured servant. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy.

This warning is especially being directed at those coming straight from undergrad. Don't waste your 20's on law school and the legal field. For those of you reading who think this is good advice for the thousands of 0L's who don't totally know what they are doing, but since you got a 170+ and are 26 you are the exception, this still applies to you. Even if you do everything right, we still don't need you. Won't for a while. Go do something else.

Sincerely,
The Ghost of Christmas Future


Full ride to CCN is actually a very good decision for some people. Take the person whose family isn't too rich, didn't go to a strong undergrad, did alright in basket-weaving major, and did well on the LSAT. What else could they do with such a high probability of making a significant income after three years? Biglaw from CCN isn't a sure thing, but it's probably more of a sure thing than the other options for this type of person.

Your shtick is way too strong here. Law school is a horrible decision for a lot of people. You trying to make it a horrible decision for everyone just gets people to ignore the message entirely. So stop, you're just hurting the message rather than helping spread it.


Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:44 pm

typ3 wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.

while this is sometimes true, it's not worth relying on

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:45 pm

typ3 wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.


Please leave this thread. You're not helping.

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AreJay711
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:45 pm

TBF, going on a full scholly is probably a pretty good deal. I really doubt a law degree from a top school (or any decent school) is going to make you less employable. At worst it is a wash.

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typ3
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby typ3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:47 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
typ3 wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.


Please leave this thread. You're not helping.


I'm not feeding the troll either. I'm just saying that a JD will open doors to you in business. It's not the same as an MBA but it's not the same as looking for a job with a masters in Latvian folklore.

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typ3
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby typ3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:47 pm

AreJay711 wrote:TBF, going on a full scholly is probably a pretty good deal. I really doubt a law degree from a top school (or any decent school) is going to make you less employable. At worst it is a wash.


TITCR

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:48 pm

typ3 wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
typ3 wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.


Please leave this thread. You're not helping.


I'm not feeding the troll either. I'm just saying that a JD might possibly be a way to open doors to you in business. It's not the same as an MBA but it's not the same as looking for a job with a masters in Latvian folklore.

fixed

071816
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby 071816 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:49 pm

Image

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:50 pm

typ3 wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
typ3 wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
Shrinking # of legal jobs, growing # of lawyers. Anyone going to law school isn't helping the problem. Want to better the legal profession? Don't join it and let it sort itself out.


Why not get your JD and go into business? Just because you're at law school doesn't mean you need to practice as an attorney. Use the skills, connections, and prestige you earn in law school to make bank in business or finance.


Please leave this thread. You're not helping.


I'm not feeding the troll either. I'm just saying that a JD will open doors to you in business. It's not the same as an MBA but it's not the same as looking for a job with a masters in Latvian folklore.


Your first post in this thread was credited: Someone who has a job lined up before law school and goes on a full-ride seems like it's a very good decision for that person.

Second post is less credited. Going to law school with a plan of not being a lawyer is usually a bad idea, even with a full-ride. There may be some non-legal jobs where a JD could open doors that weren't open before, but the number of these types of jobs is not too high.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:54 pm

I'm not feeding the troll either. I'm just saying that a JD might possibly be a way to open doors to you in business. It's not the same as an MBA but it's not the same as looking for a job with a masters in Latvian folklore.



You're right, its not the same as looking for a job with a Master's in Latvian folklore.

If you put that you have an MA in Latvian folklore on your non-folklore-related resumes, it probably won't hurt.

If you put that you have a law degree on non-law job resumes, it will hurt you most of the time (Don't want to deal with know it all lawyer, overqualified, rather have someone with work experience, why did you go to lawschool if you dont want to be lawyer etc).

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kwais
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby kwais » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:55 pm

OP makes good points and is not at all absolutist

for further support of his/her well thought out position, watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXjgbEu-T4

Big Dog
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Big Dog » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm

I really doubt a law degree from a top school (or any decent school) is going to make you less employable.


Actually, for many entry level jobs, a JD WILL make you less employable, on average. If nothing else, the three years in law school are wasted on the future employer. But more importantly, that JD will be competing with someone of similar age that has three years of work experience, perhaps all of it relevant to the job at hand.

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kwais
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby kwais » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
I'm not feeding the troll either. I'm just saying that a JD might possibly be a way to open doors to you in business. It's not the same as an MBA but it's not the same as looking for a job with a masters in Latvian folklore.



You're right, its not the same as looking for a job with a Master's in Latvian folklore.

If you put that you have an MA in Latvian folklore on your non-folklore-related resumes, it probably won't hurt.

If you put that you have a law degree on non-law job resumes, it will hurt you most of the time (Don't want to deal with know it all lawyer, overqualified, rather have someone with work experience, why did you go to lawschool if you dont want to be lawyer etc).


yay! someone else who is not absolutist. man this thread is full of nuance




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