Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA Forum
-
- Posts: 642
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:17 pm
Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
First, it was Sen. Boxer; now, it's Sen. Grassley.
The letter is long and it contains a lot of questions to the ABA, but I encourage everyone interested in law school to read and understand it.
Letter:
http://grassley.senate.gov/about/upload ... to-ABA.pdf
NLJ: "Senate Republican joins the ABA's inquisitors regarding law schools"
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
WSJ: "Law School Accreditation Standards Questioned by U.S. Senator"
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/12/law ... s-senator/
The letter is long and it contains a lot of questions to the ABA, but I encourage everyone interested in law school to read and understand it.
Letter:
http://grassley.senate.gov/about/upload ... to-ABA.pdf
NLJ: "Senate Republican joins the ABA's inquisitors regarding law schools"
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
WSJ: "Law School Accreditation Standards Questioned by U.S. Senator"
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/12/law ... s-senator/
-
- Posts: 3311
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
What, no one's trying to pull the plug on grandma anymore?
- things fall apart
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:39 am
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
Is that blood libel I hear unamerican socialist? Or is...it..um..Kenya?...er uhm gun rights...uhmm...taxes?minnbills wrote:What, no one's trying to pull the plug on grandma anymore?
Buzzwords = you're wrong

- kwais
- Posts: 1675
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart
- things fall apart
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:39 am
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
Charts? pffft, facts are just part of mainstream media's liberal agenda.kwais wrote:word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart
--ImageRemoved--
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
What are these replies referring to?
-
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:46 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
Frankly, It's about time that someone put a stop to all the new law school accreditations. Does anyone at the ABA think or even care that many of these newly minted lawyers from new tier 4 schools won't get jobs? I agree with Grassley. We taxpayers are footing the bill for these kids to get degree that will allow a lot more defaults because many more kids won't get jobs necessary to pay back the loans incurred. It is unfair to the taxpayers and to the kids themselves.
-
- Posts: 11453
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
Great letter raising serious concerns. Significant follow-up articles in the press.
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
All hail the AALS, new accreditation body for US law schools.
Florida Coastal must be shitting itself right now. Anyone know how Infilaw stock fared as a result of the news?
Florida Coastal must be shitting itself right now. Anyone know how Infilaw stock fared as a result of the news?
- Hopefully2012
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
I like how the Senator gave a due date to respond and asked the ABA to number their responses accordingly... I see how it is the most practical way to do it but it seems almost like I'm taking a Jr High social studies exam again.
-
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:02 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
This is wonderful news. The ABA needs to get its act together and start doing what it is supposed to do. If the ABA cannot do that, then the law school regulatory and accreditation powers should be given to a more competent and willing institution.
-
- Posts: 3311
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?
I'm glad to see lawmakers are taking action but grassley has no credibility for me.
- baconpuffs
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:18 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
And as far as the dragon chart goes, scroll to the 2:00 mark for lulz.minnbills wrote:During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?
OT, I applaud anyone, including (gulp) Sen. Grassley, for looking into the law school racket.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- AreJay711
- Posts: 3406
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
I bet the ABA wiped it's figurative ass with that letter.
-
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:44 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
God do I love her.things fall apart wrote:Charts? pffft, facts are just part of mainstream media's liberal agenda.kwais wrote:word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart
--ImageRemoved--
-
- Posts: 3311
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
baconpuffs wrote:And as far as the dragon chart goes, scroll to the 2:00 mark for lulz.minnbills wrote:During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?
OT, I applaud anyone, including (gulp) Sen. Grassley, for looking into the law school racket.
What is this I don't even
-
- Posts: 374
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:50 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
...
Last edited by schooner on Sun May 03, 2015 12:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- tyro
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:23 am
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
*ABA rolls eyes*Article wrote:The department gave the ABA one year to address the deficiencies.
-
- Posts: 374
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:50 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
...
Last edited by schooner on Sun May 03, 2015 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
- tyro
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:23 am
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
I really only took a brief perusal of some of the material but my hunch is that there is a vested interest stretching well beyond the ABA itself to keep things the way they are as far as accreditation standards which leads me to the initial conclusion that it will take a lot to see significant changes. This entire theory, I'll admit, is based on a premise that I'm not totally sure is legit. Would need to get a better idea of the various 'players' in the 'game' to understand what we might see in terms of outcomes. Interesting stuff though nonetheless!schooner wrote:This is actually pretty serious. Grassley can use his perch on the judiciary committee to make ABA's life absolutely miserable, and Democrats will probably be happy to join him. For example, committees could use their subpoena power to drag ABA officials to Congress for repeated public shamings. That could spark investigations and ultimately legislative threats from other committees. The letter states "the ABA, which has the power to accredit law schools, was barely granted renewed recognition by the US Department of Education's accreditation experts" -- the Senate HELP Committee could threaten oversight activities, legislation to punish ABA via some kind of legislation involving the Dept of Education, etc.tyro wrote:*ABA rolls eyes*Article wrote:The department gave the ABA one year to address the deficiencies.
Edit: but maybe, as you seem to hold, this is exactly what could spark the change we collectively are hoping for.
Also just out of curiosity (and I haven't searched for/researched the topic), it would be interesting to see predictions/outlines of the consequences of legal employment in the case that law school accreditation requirements were tightened. How significant would the differences really be and/or how long would it take to see some improvements in field-related job prospects?
And what are the larger issues (if any) here aside from accreditation standards? I want to hear YOUR thoughts.
-
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:22 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
ABA stands for "Accredit Basically Anyone."
If these lowlife, also-ran toilets like 'Bozo, NYLS, Brooklyn, Cooley et al charged reasonable tuition (like 10 grand a year), no one would really care. Yet they charge as much or more as elite schools like Yale or Harvard.
That said, I'm surprised more folks don't consider schools like CUNY Law. At roughly 11 K a year, you could wait tables in NYC part time and almost pay your way through w/out loans. And these kids basically have the same shitlaw "opportunities" as losers from the other also-rans mentioned above.
If these lowlife, also-ran toilets like 'Bozo, NYLS, Brooklyn, Cooley et al charged reasonable tuition (like 10 grand a year), no one would really care. Yet they charge as much or more as elite schools like Yale or Harvard.
That said, I'm surprised more folks don't consider schools like CUNY Law. At roughly 11 K a year, you could wait tables in NYC part time and almost pay your way through w/out loans. And these kids basically have the same shitlaw "opportunities" as losers from the other also-rans mentioned above.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 642
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:17 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
I think that if the ABA takes into consideration the following issues for extending or renewing accreditation, then the situation corrects itself by shutting down mostly unscrupulous TTTs:
1. The attrition rate should be very low, and by that I mean less than 15% per year. It's OK if students transfer, but it cannot be that TTTs flunk up to half of their classes after they have been charged a lot of money. The filtering should be before law school, not while in it or after. Most of the students that enroll should have a reasonable chance of actually graduating and taking the bar.
2. The vast majority of graduates should be employed in JD-requiring positions shortly after graduation, and by that I mean at least 80% of the graduating class.
3. Students should graduate with a payable level of debt, and by that I mean no more than 1.5X of the median starting salary.
1. The attrition rate should be very low, and by that I mean less than 15% per year. It's OK if students transfer, but it cannot be that TTTs flunk up to half of their classes after they have been charged a lot of money. The filtering should be before law school, not while in it or after. Most of the students that enroll should have a reasonable chance of actually graduating and taking the bar.
2. The vast majority of graduates should be employed in JD-requiring positions shortly after graduation, and by that I mean at least 80% of the graduating class.
3. Students should graduate with a payable level of debt, and by that I mean no more than 1.5X of the median starting salary.
-
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:22 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
What are people's thoughts on the ABA's response?
-
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:46 pm
Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA
I don't agree with item (1) above. This would result in passing kids that faculty might not think are worthy of passing. Moreover, it will water down curriculum and inflate grading. Attrition rate should not be a factor..... period.scammedhard wrote:I think that if the ABA takes into consideration the following issues for extending or renewing accreditation, then the situation corrects itself by shutting down mostly unscrupulous TTTs:
1. The attrition rate should be very low, and by that I mean less than 15% per year. It's OK if students transfer, but it cannot be that TTTs flunk up to half of their classes after they have been charged a lot of money. The filtering should be before law school, not while in it or after. Most of the students that enroll should have a reasonable chance of actually graduating and taking the bar.
2. The vast majority of graduates should be employed in JD-requiring positions shortly after graduation, and by that I mean at least 80% of the graduating class.
3. Students should graduate with a payable level of debt, and by that I mean no more than 1.5X of the median starting salary.
Moreover, you can believe me when I say that for private schools, there is already an incentive NOT to flunk kids out. They would lose all that future revenue. This is why studies show that grading in private schools is a bit higher than that of public institutions.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login