Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

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scammedhard
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Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby scammedhard » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:37 pm

First, it was Sen. Boxer; now, it's Sen. Grassley.

The letter is long and it contains a lot of questions to the ABA, but I encourage everyone interested in law school to read and understand it.

Letter:
http://grassley.senate.gov/about/upload ... to-ABA.pdf

NLJ: "Senate Republican joins the ABA's inquisitors regarding law schools"
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

WSJ: "Law School Accreditation Standards Questioned by U.S. Senator"
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/12/law ... s-senator/

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minnbills
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby minnbills » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:44 am

What, no one's trying to pull the plug on grandma anymore?

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things fall apart
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby things fall apart » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:42 am

minnbills wrote:What, no one's trying to pull the plug on grandma anymore?


Is that blood libel I hear unamerican socialist? Or is...it..um..Kenya?...er uhm gun rights...uhmm...taxes?

Buzzwords = you're wrong 8)

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kwais
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby kwais » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:45 am

word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart

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things fall apart
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby things fall apart » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:57 am

kwais wrote:word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart


Charts? pffft, facts are just part of mainstream media's liberal agenda.

--ImageRemoved--

flcath
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby flcath » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:26 am

What are these replies referring to?

taxguy
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby taxguy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:26 am

Frankly, It's about time that someone put a stop to all the new law school accreditations. Does anyone at the ABA think or even care that many of these newly minted lawyers from new tier 4 schools won't get jobs? I agree with Grassley. We taxpayers are footing the bill for these kids to get degree that will allow a lot more defaults because many more kids won't get jobs necessary to pay back the loans incurred. It is unfair to the taxpayers and to the kids themselves.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:47 am

Great letter raising serious concerns. Significant follow-up articles in the press.

flcath
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby flcath » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:19 am

All hail the AALS, new accreditation body for US law schools.

Florida Coastal must be shitting itself right now. Anyone know how Infilaw stock fared as a result of the news?

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Hopefully2012
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby Hopefully2012 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:57 am

I like how the Senator gave a due date to respond and asked the ABA to number their responses accordingly... I see how it is the most practical way to do it but it seems almost like I'm taking a Jr High social studies exam again.

javancho
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby javancho » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:14 pm

This is wonderful news. The ABA needs to get its act together and start doing what it is supposed to do. If the ABA cannot do that, then the law school regulatory and accreditation powers should be given to a more competent and willing institution.

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minnbills
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby minnbills » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:37 pm

flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?


During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.

I'm glad to see lawmakers are taking action but grassley has no credibility for me.

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baconpuffs
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby baconpuffs » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:07 am

minnbills wrote:
flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?


During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.

And as far as the dragon chart goes, scroll to the 2:00 mark for lulz.

OT, I applaud anyone, including (gulp) Sen. Grassley, for looking into the law school racket.

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AreJay711
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby AreJay711 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:09 am

I bet the ABA wiped it's figurative ass with that letter.

23402385985
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby 23402385985 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:15 am

things fall apart wrote:
kwais wrote:word on the street is that Grassley's got a chart...a dragon chart


Charts? pffft, facts are just part of mainstream media's liberal agenda.

--ImageRemoved--


God do I love her.

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minnbills
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby minnbills » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:56 am

baconpuffs wrote:
minnbills wrote:
flcath wrote:What are these replies referring to?


During the debate over the health care bill grassley was the one who started the "they're trying to pull the plug on grandma" talking point.

And as far as the dragon chart goes, scroll to the 2:00 mark for lulz.

OT, I applaud anyone, including (gulp) Sen. Grassley, for looking into the law school racket.



What is this I don't even

schooner
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby schooner » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:06 am

...
Last edited by schooner on Sun May 03, 2015 12:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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tyro
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby tyro » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:08 am

Article wrote:The department gave the ABA one year to address the deficiencies.

*ABA rolls eyes*

schooner
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby schooner » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:17 am

...
Last edited by schooner on Sun May 03, 2015 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tyro
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby tyro » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:31 am

schooner wrote:
tyro wrote:
Article wrote:The department gave the ABA one year to address the deficiencies.

*ABA rolls eyes*


This is actually pretty serious. Grassley can use his perch on the judiciary committee to make ABA's life absolutely miserable, and Democrats will probably be happy to join him. For example, committees could use their subpoena power to drag ABA officials to Congress for repeated public shamings. That could spark investigations and ultimately legislative threats from other committees. The letter states "the ABA, which has the power to accredit law schools, was barely granted renewed recognition by the US Department of Education's accreditation experts" -- the Senate HELP Committee could threaten oversight activities, legislation to punish ABA via some kind of legislation involving the Dept of Education, etc.


I really only took a brief perusal of some of the material but my hunch is that there is a vested interest stretching well beyond the ABA itself to keep things the way they are as far as accreditation standards which leads me to the initial conclusion that it will take a lot to see significant changes. This entire theory, I'll admit, is based on a premise that I'm not totally sure is legit. Would need to get a better idea of the various 'players' in the 'game' to understand what we might see in terms of outcomes. Interesting stuff though nonetheless!

Edit: but maybe, as you seem to hold, this is exactly what could spark the change we collectively are hoping for.

Also just out of curiosity (and I haven't searched for/researched the topic), it would be interesting to see predictions/outlines of the consequences of legal employment in the case that law school accreditation requirements were tightened. How significant would the differences really be and/or how long would it take to see some improvements in field-related job prospects?

And what are the larger issues (if any) here aside from accreditation standards? I want to hear YOUR thoughts.

areyouinsane
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby areyouinsane » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:38 am

ABA stands for "Accredit Basically Anyone."

If these lowlife, also-ran toilets like 'Bozo, NYLS, Brooklyn, Cooley et al charged reasonable tuition (like 10 grand a year), no one would really care. Yet they charge as much or more as elite schools like Yale or Harvard.

That said, I'm surprised more folks don't consider schools like CUNY Law. At roughly 11 K a year, you could wait tables in NYC part time and almost pay your way through w/out loans. And these kids basically have the same shitlaw "opportunities" as losers from the other also-rans mentioned above.

scammedhard
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby scammedhard » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am

I think that if the ABA takes into consideration the following issues for extending or renewing accreditation, then the situation corrects itself by shutting down mostly unscrupulous TTTs:

1. The attrition rate should be very low, and by that I mean less than 15% per year. It's OK if students transfer, but it cannot be that TTTs flunk up to half of their classes after they have been charged a lot of money. The filtering should be before law school, not while in it or after. Most of the students that enroll should have a reasonable chance of actually graduating and taking the bar.

2. The vast majority of graduates should be employed in JD-requiring positions shortly after graduation, and by that I mean at least 80% of the graduating class.

3. Students should graduate with a payable level of debt, and by that I mean no more than 1.5X of the median starting salary.

ant5do
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby ant5do » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:51 am

What are people's thoughts on the ABA's response?

taxguy
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Re: Yet another US Senator sends a harsh letter to the ABA

Postby taxguy » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:13 am

scammedhard wrote:I think that if the ABA takes into consideration the following issues for extending or renewing accreditation, then the situation corrects itself by shutting down mostly unscrupulous TTTs:

1. The attrition rate should be very low, and by that I mean less than 15% per year. It's OK if students transfer, but it cannot be that TTTs flunk up to half of their classes after they have been charged a lot of money. The filtering should be before law school, not while in it or after. Most of the students that enroll should have a reasonable chance of actually graduating and taking the bar.

2. The vast majority of graduates should be employed in JD-requiring positions shortly after graduation, and by that I mean at least 80% of the graduating class.

3. Students should graduate with a payable level of debt, and by that I mean no more than 1.5X of the median starting salary.


I don't agree with item (1) above. This would result in passing kids that faculty might not think are worthy of passing. Moreover, it will water down curriculum and inflate grading. Attrition rate should not be a factor..... period.

Moreover, you can believe me when I say that for private schools, there is already an incentive NOT to flunk kids out. They would lose all that future revenue. This is why studies show that grading in private schools is a bit higher than that of public institutions.




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