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Colorado10
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Postby Colorado10 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:35 pm

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Last edited by Colorado10 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:39 pm

Applying early makes a difference due to rolling admissions.

Also, Yale is the exception not the rule.

miracle2011
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby miracle2011 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:40 pm

I can't speak to T6 admissions (then again they all wait listed me instead of rejecting me despite being below both 25th's) but I got into UCLA (November 15th), Michigan (around Thanksgiving) and Upenn (December 17th) well before many of the ED applicants (I applied regular decision to all of these schools) had even received decisions.

My LSN is in my profile and shows my application/acceptance or wait list dates.

I think that apply early helps a lot.

Colorado10
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby Colorado10 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:42 pm

bk1 wrote:Applying early makes a difference due to rolling admissions.

Also, Yale is the exception not the rule.


I may be wrong here, but isn't this a bit of a circular reasoning?

From the perspective of the admissions office, why should they provide even minimal benefits to someone who applies in early October? They know they will be receiving applications with top numbers well into February.

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bk1
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:45 pm

Colorado10 wrote:From the perspective of the admissions office, why should they provide even minimal benefits to someone who applies in early October? They know they will be receiving applications with top numbers well into February.


But they don't know that they will get better numbers in February (or at least they don't know exactly how many they will get). They also are trying to make sure the applicants they want don't get picked up by other schools. And finally schools often give out financial awards with their acceptances thus making scholarship money scarcer the later it is in a cycle.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:47 pm

Look through people on lsn with numbers that should've been locks at certain schools. Every time you see a dot on the graph and wonder how that person got rejected when everyone else with the same numbers got in- click on it and I bet you anything it's because they applied late.

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vpintz
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby vpintz » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:48 pm

Almost related question...I would assume so, but I'm not sure and would like to get a general opinion: do you think that applying Early Decision would make one get their decisions earlier than someone who applied at the same time, but applied for regular admissions?

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bk1
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:51 pm

vpintz wrote:Almost related question...I would assume so, but I'm not sure and would like to get a general opinion: do you think that applying Early Decision would make one get their decisions earlier than someone who applied at the same time, but applied for regular admissions?


Depends on the school.

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ShuckingNotJiving
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby ShuckingNotJiving » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:52 pm

Now that you bring it up, I see what you mean -- couldn't the fact that LSN shows earlier applicants fare better be explained by the fact that this earlier pool are just more motivated, and therefore stronger applicants?

But I think you're forgetting that besides getting the tippy top applicants, Adcomms also want to fill their classes efficiently. Why would they postpone admitted applicants when there could very well NOT be top numbers in February? Why would they wait around and potentially lose these applicants to other schools?

I remember reading the Admissions Dean of H explicitly state that it's best to apply early. As a matter of fact, I think I read it on this site. You should check it out.

duckmoney
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:53 pm

It is theoretically to the school's disadvantage to give a boost to early applicants, but they do it anyway. This lets them spread everything over the whole cycle, which spreads out their massive workload, and also and reach out to their choice applicants early, letting them get excited about the school early in the cycle.

bhan87
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bhan87 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:53 pm

For many schools, I don't think it makes a huge difference, but it's much more preferable to apply earlier if your application is ready. However, perfectly-constructed application late > application with mistakes early.

Sometimes you get a UChicago though where they over-accept in the first waves and basically reject everyone who applied in January :roll:

Colorado10
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby Colorado10 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:58 pm

bk1 wrote:
Colorado10 wrote:From the perspective of the admissions office, why should they provide even minimal benefits to someone who applies in early October? They know they will be receiving applications with top numbers well into February.


But they don't know that they will get better numbers in February (or at least they don't know exactly how many they will get). They also are trying to make sure the applicants they want don't get picked up by other schools. And finally schools often give out financial awards with their acceptances thus making scholarship money scarcer the later it is in a cycle.


Thanks for your quick response bk.

In thinking about it again, I think applying really late in the game, say February, can hurt your chances given how many spots would have been filled up by then.

But isn't it reasonable to say that a fair number of applicants with stellar numbers would continue to submit their applications in January (after taking the December LSAT or receiving their Fall Semester grades?)?

So when everything else is the same, would applying in early October really make a difference compared to applying in January?

Also, why should the availability of financial aid influence the admissions office? Why should that be in the interest of the law school? Top schools always accept far more students than can possibly attend (Harvard usually admits 850+ when usually 500~600 actually enroll), knowing that some students opt for other schools.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:00 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:Look through people on lsn with numbers that should've been locks at certain schools. Every time you see a dot on the graph and wonder how that person got rejected when everyone else with the same numbers got in- click on it and I bet you anything it's because they applied late.


+1

take a user like r6_philly (sorry if i'm throwing anyone under the bus lol). http://lawschoolnumbers.com/r6philly. had a great cycle this year, largely because he applied early. the previous cycle he applied later. so he took the same lsat score, same gpa from the last cycle, so we're looking at substantially the same application, applied earlier, and profitzzzz.

i got waitlisted all over the place because i submitted my app in late january / early feb. there were many people with the same numbers who got better results and applied earlier.

i felt like OMG THIS WON'T HAPPEN TO ME. i neglected the common wisdom. the thing is, it's hard to prove that applying late really hurt because it's based on a lot of anecdotal evidence. every app is different so you could point to a million reasons why one was WL'ed or rejected instead of accepted when their numbers would suggest otherwise. some people, like myself, have a bad habit of only believing something that can be quantifiably proven, or when the anecdote becomes their own. i can tell that OP resists the common wisdom and is leaning towards the idea it doesn't and shouldn't make a difference. it does and it should make a difference. just apply early.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/decision-dates.html

hth. you can see that the admissions go out earlier, and you can also see that yale is indeed the exception. it is the only school in the T14 that can make a legit claim that applying late doesn't hurt you.

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bk1
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:03 pm

Colorado10 wrote:But isn't it reasonable to say that a fair number of applicants with stellar numbers would continue to submit their applications in January (after taking the December LSAT or receiving their Fall Semester grades?)?

So when everything else is the same, would applying in early October really make a difference compared to applying in January?

Also, why should the availability of financial aid influence the admissions office? Why should that be in the interest of the law school? Top schools always accept far more students than can possibly attend (Harvard usually admits 850+ when usually 500~600 actually enroll), knowing that some students opt for other schools.


This is of note: http://www.top-law-schools.com/decision-dates.html and shows the differences between schools. For example CLS sent the majority of acceptances out in early January (meaning they were probably reviewing these apps in early December) whereas NYU sent the majority of acceptances out in early December (meaning they were probably reviewing these apps in early November). At a school like NYU I would imagine that applying in October would be better than applying in January whereas at Yale it would not be.

The availability of financial aid is important to the applicant. The later one applies the less likely they are to receive financial aid.

Colorado10
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby Colorado10 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:05 pm

thanks guys for the informative links. I'll look them over and think some more.

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glewz
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby glewz » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:11 pm

Colorado10 wrote:thanks guys for the informative links. I'll look them over and think some more.


Applying early can make a significant difference, but it also depends on your school & stats. For Berkeley, the Dean specifically says that those who don't apply by October are at a disadvantage, but for some other (probably lower ranked schools) you may receive less of a benefit. That said, every T14 school I've spoken with has stressed an early application except Columbia and Yale. For Columbia I know two 3.7-3.8/176+ candidates who were rejected outright when they applied in January/February; when they reapplied in September, they were both admitted immediately.

Also, applying early gives you the benefit of being admitted when schools still have $$$ for financial aid offers.

--
Berkeley Law Interview with TLS: http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html
Dean Tom: “Yes. You must apply early. Even though we don’t have an early decision program, the early bird does catch the worm here. And by early I’m talking about October, mid-November at the latest. Even if you’re taking the December LSAT, you should send in your application to us ahead of time. Use the Law Services electronic application that’s available now. It’s a great product and it works very, very well. You can just apply online through them. Our application is available on our website in PDF form too. But if you use the Law Services version everything comes to us in a bundle: your LSAT score, your letters of recommendation, your personal statement, and it expedites things for the candidate.

A lot of people make the mistake of filling out their applications over the Christmas holidays. But I start reading applications in late October, and I start making offers at that time. Because we have a finite number of offers to make, not only are there fewer spots available later in the process, the competition for those spots increases.”
--

Yale is unique among top schools, in that its selection process does not benefit the early applicant - chances, they claim, are the same throughout the admissions cycle. This is exclusively a Yale thing and has been confirmed by various independent admissions books and Yale admissions officers.

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iamnooneelse
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby iamnooneelse » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:26 pm

You don't have to understand it. Just know that it is so, and apply accordingly so you don't get the shaft.

I look at it like food in a shark tank. As a shark, you grab a big chunk of the best meat currently available right when it's dropped in the tank, because you can somewhat expect but not be guaranteed that any more meat of that caliber is coming, but you do know what you currently have in front of you. Of course, you don't fill all the way up if you have the reasonable expectation that there will be more. And as more comes, you gradually fill up more and more. As stomach space becomes more limited, the piece of meat will have to be of higher and higher quality to justify eating it when doing so carries the risk of your stomach exploding (going over the class size that the adcomm wants to). Of course, you could wait to eat until you see everything your feeder has to offer. But even if all the other sharks don't eat up the food before you (which they will), your meat would become terribly impatient with you if it took you that long to make a decision.

Basically, you want to produce one fine piece of shark shit, not puke out a bunch of worthless pieces of regurgitated meat because you ate too much. If an applicant ever expects to be made into shark shit, it would best serve him/her to be one of the first pieces of meat swallowed up, and not play the game of whether he/she is high quality enough to justify occupying that last piece of stomach space; at that point, the competition is tough.

Yes, I did just compare law school applicants to pieces of meat and the graduating class to shark shit. Ignore the details. My drift is that as time goes on and space becomes limited, you're going to have to be that much more of a gem to justify accepting, so why not get in early and be done with it?

bmore
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby bmore » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:30 pm

What is there to think about? Just do it. It is for your benefit. And it certainly can't hurt.

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Samara
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby Samara » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:03 pm

I think it makes perfect sense. Say there's a group of ten similar people whose applications are right on the bubble and the school only has room for five. If five people apply in October and five apply in January, why wouldn't the school give out the admits to the October people and have the class rounded out earlier? They can always waitlist the January people and let them in if the October people go elsewhere.

So it's not a HUGE benefit, but unless you're a total lock, you better get that app in. For splitters *raises hand*, I would imagine it applies doubly. I'm not taking my chances on being the odd splitter out by applying any later than I can.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:53 pm

bk1 wrote:
Colorado10 wrote:But isn't it reasonable to say that a fair number of applicants with stellar numbers would continue to submit their applications in January (after taking the December LSAT or receiving their Fall Semester grades?)?

So when everything else is the same, would applying in early October really make a difference compared to applying in January?

Also, why should the availability of financial aid influence the admissions office? Why should that be in the interest of the law school? Top schools always accept far more students than can possibly attend (Harvard usually admits 850+ when usually 500~600 actually enroll), knowing that some students opt for other schools.


This is of note: http://www.top-law-schools.com/decision-dates.html and shows the differences between schools. For example CLS sent the majority of acceptances out in early January (meaning they were probably reviewing these apps in early December) whereas NYU sent the majority of acceptances out in early December (meaning they were probably reviewing these apps in early November). At a school like NYU I would imagine that applying in October would be better than applying in January whereas at Yale it would not be.

The availability of financial aid is important to the applicant. The later one applies the less likely they are to receive financial aid.


I agree with everyone else but I would like to add my two cents. If you must apply late give a good reason. I was deployed (with the Army) the summer before I applied to law school. Then I got back and had to move all of my stuff from the Netherlands back to the states. Most of my apps were turned in very late and my apps to Y and H were turned in right at the deadline. My cycle wasn't perfect but I did get into H and Y, and I think it helped that I told them I was in a combat zone and moving back to the states. It explains the lateness and it shows the Adcomms you're not just being lazy.

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: Does Applying Early REALLY Make a Difference at Top Schools?

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:06 pm

I applied mere hours before the deadlines at most of the schools I applied to, so I'll add my two cents. Basically, I was accepted at the schools where my numbers were just good enough, rejected where they weren't good enough, and consistently waitlisted at every school where my numbers were above average. Seriously, they YPed the hell out of me. I think they tend to be much more cautious when they've already filled most of their spots. That was my experience anyway. If you're actually interested in going to a lower ranked school for $$$ don't apply late, or you'll end up having to fight your way off a waitlist...




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