Why Law School?

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frijoles99
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Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:32 pm

I recognize the majority of people going into Law School are trying to make that money as evidenced by vast number of attorneys that end up going into private practice. Also it is echoed by the sentiments of the majority of posters here who say big law or bust.
First off anyone who has read any of the articles here or has researched the law school market for the last couple years can tell that statistically your chances are near to nill. Statistically speaking at the majority of these schools you need to be at above the medians or even worse, at the top 10%. Clearly the lsat tests a ton of logic, hence why choose law school over other fields?

I am applying because I want to work in PI. If I did not want to work in this field I would not apply to law school. Look at US news and world reports top 50 careers. Attorney is certainly not up there. My GF is going for a job to make money and she applied to nursing school. Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks. So I really have to ask why?

Thanks

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:39 pm

I know this isn't your main point, but PI jobs (at least the better ones) are just as competitive as biglaw. Secondly, the biglaw or bust mentality is about repaying off loans in a timely manner and because biglaw opens doors to other more enjoyable positions (in-house counsel, for example).

Ultimately, the reason why many on TLS are going to law school is because they think that going to a top school will protect them against the difficult legal market. And everyone here assumes they will be in that top 10% to get the top jobs and the legal economy will not affect them (this assumption is to their detriment).

Everyone has reasons for pursing a legal education. Some have a family legacy of working in the legal profession. Others are intrigued by the intricacies of the legal system. Others just want a way to make money, and their liberal arts degrees will get them nowhere.

The answer to your question is not a simple one in many cases and is quite often unique to each person. If you want to gain some insight, read the personal statements forum.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby tea_drinker » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:43 pm

frijoles99 wrote: Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks.


It may depend on where you live, but this is in general not true.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:48 pm

tea_drinker wrote:
frijoles99 wrote: Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks.


It may depend on where you live, but this is in general not true.

Credited, especially the bold. My aunt is an RN, and she works 105 hours a week. BTW, she is divorced and pops xanax like candy. Nurses are not immune from the social/familial effects found in biglaw, either.

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YaSvoboden
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby YaSvoboden » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:53 pm

I can just answer this for me, but I am finishing up an accounting degree and audit bores the hell out of me, but I am actually quite interested in tax. I looked at the differences between tax accounting and tax law and law just opens more doors and seems more interesting. I should have a good shot at the big 4 if I want it, or corporate law, or just going in to a tax boutique or opening my own practice after a few years of experience. I also am interested in academia and a JD/LLM tax would allow me to do that in a business school, or possibly a law school, and has better professional opportunities than a PhD in accounting.

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Fred_McGriff
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Fred_McGriff » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:11 pm

Because I'm a complete fucking idiot.

frijoles99
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:22 pm

In regards to nurses I know nurses coming from UCLA nursing who work 3 days a week 12 hour shifts and get paid 80-90k. Did your aunt go to a community college for nursing because I'm really talking about legit nursing schools. Like UCLA or columbia.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:30 pm

frijoles99 wrote:In regards to nurses I know nurses coming from UCLA nursing who work 3 days a week 12 hour shifts and get paid 80-90k. Did your aunt go to a community college for nursing because I'm really talking about legit nursing schools. Like UCLA or columbia.


You make it sound as if getting into those nursing schools are easy. You obviously know nothing. Getting into law school is easier. All you need is a GPA and an LSAT. Herp derp.

frijoles99
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:31 pm

hahahah
i know someone who got into Columbia Hopkins and yale.

3.1 GPA and GRE 1100 out of 1600

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Leira7905
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Leira7905 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:32 pm

Because I've been a Paralegal for 4 1/2 years and I genuinely LIKE working in the legal field. I know I'm capable of doing the work required, and going to law school is the way one moves up from the position I already have. The possiblity that I'll make serious money is just the icing on the cake. I'm doing it because I like it. End of story.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:33 pm

frijoles99 wrote:hahahah
i know someone who got into Columbia Hopkins and yale.

3.1 GPA and GRE 1100 out of 1600


And? I'm sure that GPA wasn't in lolEnglish or lolPoliSci. Also nursing requires softs. Law school doesn't. You are comparing apples and oranges. Plus your friend sounds like he was black or mexican.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby tea_drinker » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:49 pm

frijoles99 wrote:In regards to nurses I know nurses coming from UCLA nursing who work 3 days a week 12 hour shifts and get paid 80-90k. Did your aunt go to a community college for nursing because I'm really talking about legit nursing schools. Like UCLA or columbia.


you cannot draw any conclusions that nurses make easy money from this post. There are associate degree in nursing, a bachlelor degree in nursing and a master degree in nursing. So, the more advanced the degree the higher pays he/she gets paid. What 's about work experiences? Are these nurses that you refer to have 10+ years of experience, 5-10 years, or just newly grad? Did they have any experiences before they go to nursing school? Even if you are correct, do you think all UCLA nursing school grads will get this awesome gig? Think of the number of grads per year, and California is having a surplus of nurses.

My point is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:16 pm

Because political science isn't exactly the most marketable degree out there, and what else am I gonna do? Shoulda been an engineer...Navy was one of my plan B's, who knows anymore...

ATR
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby ATR » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:28 pm

--ImageRemoved--

gas law
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby gas law » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:31 pm

Please try to stick to something you actually know about. Nurses do make a decent wage but you are smoking crack if you believe they can easily make 6 figures working 40 hours a week. Unless you are a nurse anesthetist, which requires a Master's Degree, it will not happen. A few nurses do make that kind of money because they work crazy long hours (for which they get paid) or they work as a travel nurse (which pays really well but provides ZERO benefits). If you work a 60 hour week as a nurse you get PAID for 60 hours. I won't even get into things like shift differentials, overtime, holiday pay, etc.

Nursing is a stressful job and they are susceptible to the same weaknesses as anyone else in a high pressure work environment. They are not all popping Xanax like candy. Not anymore than lawyers anyway.

I realize that this being TLS that we are supposed to swoon over schools like Hopkins and Yale but a nursing degree (BSN) from these schools does not confer the same snobby status as it does for a JD. Most hospitals/employers don't really care if your BSN is from Harvard, Yale, or a large state university as long as you passed your nursing boards and have obtained a license to practice. I know this is difficult to believe in the context of this community but prospective nursing students do not have the USNWR nursing school rankings memorized, there is no "HYS," "T14," 1t, 2t, etc in the world of nursing (certainly not at the baccalaureate level, graduate school for nursing is somewhat different depending on your longterm goals).

Oh, and please enlighten me as to what constitutes a "legit" nursing school. Please stop pretending you actually know something about nursing you are simply making a fool of yourself. At the entry level for nursing there is no difference in terms of licensure whether you have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Both degrees qualify you to take the national licensure exam and if you pass, your credential is "RN" in either case. A nursing degree from UCLA or Columbia will NOT earn you more money than a degree from San Diego State (to continue the Cali reference) or SUNY.

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txadv11
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby txadv11 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:38 pm

Fred_McGriff wrote:Because I'm a complete fucking idiot.

+1 :|

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:39 pm

gas law wrote:Please try to stick to something you actually know about. Nurses do make a decent wage but you are smoking crack if you believe they can easily make 6 figures working 40 hours a week. Unless you are a nurse anesthetist, which requires a Master's Degree, it will not happen. A few nurses do make that kind of money because they work crazy long hours (for which they get paid) or they work as a travel nurse (which pays really well but provides ZERO benefits). If you work a 60 hour week as a nurse you get PAID for 60 hours. I won't even get into things like shift differentials, overtime, holiday pay, etc.

Nursing is a stressful job and they are susceptible to the same weaknesses as anyone else in a high pressure work environment. They are not all popping Xanax like candy. Not anymore than lawyers anyway.

I realize that this being TLS that we are supposed to swoon over schools like Hopkins and Yale but a nursing degree (BSN) from these schools does not confer the same snobby status as it does for a JD. Most hospitals/employers don't really care if your BSN is from Harvard, Yale, or a large state university as long as you passed your nursing boards and have obtained a license to practice. I know this is difficult to believe in the context of this community but prospective nursing students do not have the USNWR nursing school rankings memorized, there is no "HYS," "T14," 1t, 2t, etc in the world of nursing (certainly not at the baccalaureate level, graduate school for nursing is somewhat different depending on your longterm goals).

Oh, and please enlighten me as to what constitutes a "legit" nursing school. Please stop pretending you actually know something about nursing you are simply making a fool of yourself. At the entry level for nursing there is no difference in terms of licensure whether you have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Both degrees qualify you to take the national licensure exam and if you pass, your credential is "RN" in either case. A nursing degree from UCLA or Columbia will NOT earn you more money than a degree from San Diego State (to continue the Cali reference) or SUNY.


Also, the practice of medicine is nowhere near as prestige-whorish. Unless you want academia or prestigious research jobs, it doesn't matter where you go to med school (actually it only matters insofar as you get into the residency program you want, and even then, prestige isn't huge, as long as you go to a good program). I've gone to all my doctors because of their reputations, not their pedigrees. Of all the family friends who are well-to-do doctors, very very few if any went to super prestigious schools. Truly doesn't matter for private practice. I was premed for the longest time (hence the lowish GPA...eep) and I never heard of any BigMed correlate to BigLaw. I know a guy interviewing at Harvard Med, but when you have a 4.0, why not? I know a person going to Harvard Dental School-she wants to do academia/research, but outside of this it's a waste of money. All of my dentists have gone to the University of Florida. Lol at premed prestige whores is what I say.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:45 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
gas law wrote:Please try to stick to something you actually know about. Nurses do make a decent wage but you are smoking crack if you believe they can easily make 6 figures working 40 hours a week. Unless you are a nurse anesthetist, which requires a Master's Degree, it will not happen. A few nurses do make that kind of money because they work crazy long hours (for which they get paid) or they work as a travel nurse (which pays really well but provides ZERO benefits). If you work a 60 hour week as a nurse you get PAID for 60 hours. I won't even get into things like shift differentials, overtime, holiday pay, etc.

Nursing is a stressful job and they are susceptible to the same weaknesses as anyone else in a high pressure work environment. They are not all popping Xanax like candy. Not anymore than lawyers anyway.

I realize that this being TLS that we are supposed to swoon over schools like Hopkins and Yale but a nursing degree (BSN) from these schools does not confer the same snobby status as it does for a JD. Most hospitals/employers don't really care if your BSN is from Harvard, Yale, or a large state university as long as you passed your nursing boards and have obtained a license to practice. I know this is difficult to believe in the context of this community but prospective nursing students do not have the USNWR nursing school rankings memorized, there is no "HYS," "T14," 1t, 2t, etc in the world of nursing (certainly not at the baccalaureate level, graduate school for nursing is somewhat different depending on your longterm goals).

Oh, and please enlighten me as to what constitutes a "legit" nursing school. Please stop pretending you actually know something about nursing you are simply making a fool of yourself. At the entry level for nursing there is no difference in terms of licensure whether you have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Both degrees qualify you to take the national licensure exam and if you pass, your credential is "RN" in either case. A nursing degree from UCLA or Columbia will NOT earn you more money than a degree from San Diego State (to continue the Cali reference) or SUNY.


Also, the practice of medicine is nowhere near as prestige-whorish. Unless you want academia or prestigious research jobs, it doesn't matter where you go to med school (actually it only matters insofar as you get into the residency program you want, and even then, prestige isn't huge, as long as you go to a good program). I've gone to all my doctors because of their reputations, not their pedigrees. Of all the family friends who are well-to-do doctors, very very few if any went to super prestigious schools. Truly doesn't matter for private practice. I was premed for the longest time (hence the lowish GPA...eep) and I never heard of any BigMed correlate to BigLaw. I know a guy interviewing at Harvard Med, but when you have a 4.0, why not? I know a person going to Harvard Dental School-she wants to do academia/research, but outside of this it's a waste of money. All of my dentists have gone to the University of Florida. Lol at premed prestige whores is what I say.


It actually matters a bit because some schools are better for more competitive residencies. But yeah. Premed prestige hardly matters.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:53 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
FalafelWaffle wrote:
gas law wrote:Please try to stick to something you actually know about. Nurses do make a decent wage but you are smoking crack if you believe they can easily make 6 figures working 40 hours a week. Unless you are a nurse anesthetist, which requires a Master's Degree, it will not happen. A few nurses do make that kind of money because they work crazy long hours (for which they get paid) or they work as a travel nurse (which pays really well but provides ZERO benefits). If you work a 60 hour week as a nurse you get PAID for 60 hours. I won't even get into things like shift differentials, overtime, holiday pay, etc.

Nursing is a stressful job and they are susceptible to the same weaknesses as anyone else in a high pressure work environment. They are not all popping Xanax like candy. Not anymore than lawyers anyway.

I realize that this being TLS that we are supposed to swoon over schools like Hopkins and Yale but a nursing degree (BSN) from these schools does not confer the same snobby status as it does for a JD. Most hospitals/employers don't really care if your BSN is from Harvard, Yale, or a large state university as long as you passed your nursing boards and have obtained a license to practice. I know this is difficult to believe in the context of this community but prospective nursing students do not have the USNWR nursing school rankings memorized, there is no "HYS," "T14," 1t, 2t, etc in the world of nursing (certainly not at the baccalaureate level, graduate school for nursing is somewhat different depending on your longterm goals).

Oh, and please enlighten me as to what constitutes a "legit" nursing school. Please stop pretending you actually know something about nursing you are simply making a fool of yourself. At the entry level for nursing there is no difference in terms of licensure whether you have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Both degrees qualify you to take the national licensure exam and if you pass, your credential is "RN" in either case. A nursing degree from UCLA or Columbia will NOT earn you more money than a degree from San Diego State (to continue the Cali reference) or SUNY.


Also, the practice of medicine is nowhere near as prestige-whorish. Unless you want academia or prestigious research jobs, it doesn't matter where you go to med school (actually it only matters insofar as you get into the residency program you want, and even then, prestige isn't huge, as long as you go to a good program). I've gone to all my doctors because of their reputations, not their pedigrees. Of all the family friends who are well-to-do doctors, very very few if any went to super prestigious schools. Truly doesn't matter for private practice. I was premed for the longest time (hence the lowish GPA...eep) and I never heard of any BigMed correlate to BigLaw. I know a guy interviewing at Harvard Med, but when you have a 4.0, why not? I know a person going to Harvard Dental School-she wants to do academia/research, but outside of this it's a waste of money. All of my dentists have gone to the University of Florida. Lol at premed prestige whores is what I say.


It actually matters a bit because some schools are better for more competitive residencies. But yeah. Premed prestige hardly matters.


Yeah, some schools are better for more competitive residencies, I agree with that. But if I were still a premed, I would take UF if I could over almost anything else. I'd go to HYS if I could get in, but otherwise, I'd stay in-state.

My point was essentially that with Nursing and Medicine, there really isn't anything similar to a TTT school. Sure, some schools are more prestigious, and will give you a greater shot at, say, academia or prestigious research jobs, or a Derm residency. But a med school graduate from a #100 med school (and who looks at med school rankings?) isn't going to be in anywhere near the same deep shit as the #100 law school grad. Grades also matter much less. They still matter, for good residency programs, but the median student at your average med school will get in somewhere whereas the JD correlate will be up shit creek.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:56 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
FalafelWaffle wrote:
gas law wrote:Please try to stick to something you actually know about. Nurses do make a decent wage but you are smoking crack if you believe they can easily make 6 figures working 40 hours a week. Unless you are a nurse anesthetist, which requires a Master's Degree, it will not happen. A few nurses do make that kind of money because they work crazy long hours (for which they get paid) or they work as a travel nurse (which pays really well but provides ZERO benefits). If you work a 60 hour week as a nurse you get PAID for 60 hours. I won't even get into things like shift differentials, overtime, holiday pay, etc.

Nursing is a stressful job and they are susceptible to the same weaknesses as anyone else in a high pressure work environment. They are not all popping Xanax like candy. Not anymore than lawyers anyway.

I realize that this being TLS that we are supposed to swoon over schools like Hopkins and Yale but a nursing degree (BSN) from these schools does not confer the same snobby status as it does for a JD. Most hospitals/employers don't really care if your BSN is from Harvard, Yale, or a large state university as long as you passed your nursing boards and have obtained a license to practice. I know this is difficult to believe in the context of this community but prospective nursing students do not have the USNWR nursing school rankings memorized, there is no "HYS," "T14," 1t, 2t, etc in the world of nursing (certainly not at the baccalaureate level, graduate school for nursing is somewhat different depending on your longterm goals).

Oh, and please enlighten me as to what constitutes a "legit" nursing school. Please stop pretending you actually know something about nursing you are simply making a fool of yourself. At the entry level for nursing there is no difference in terms of licensure whether you have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Both degrees qualify you to take the national licensure exam and if you pass, your credential is "RN" in either case. A nursing degree from UCLA or Columbia will NOT earn you more money than a degree from San Diego State (to continue the Cali reference) or SUNY.


Also, the practice of medicine is nowhere near as prestige-whorish. Unless you want academia or prestigious research jobs, it doesn't matter where you go to med school (actually it only matters insofar as you get into the residency program you want, and even then, prestige isn't huge, as long as you go to a good program). I've gone to all my doctors because of their reputations, not their pedigrees. Of all the family friends who are well-to-do doctors, very very few if any went to super prestigious schools. Truly doesn't matter for private practice. I was premed for the longest time (hence the lowish GPA...eep) and I never heard of any BigMed correlate to BigLaw. I know a guy interviewing at Harvard Med, but when you have a 4.0, why not? I know a person going to Harvard Dental School-she wants to do academia/research, but outside of this it's a waste of money. All of my dentists have gone to the University of Florida. Lol at premed prestige whores is what I say.


It actually matters a bit because some schools are better for more competitive residencies. But yeah. Premed prestige hardly matters.


Yeah, some schools are better for more competitive residencies, I agree with that. But if I were still a premed, I would take UF if I could over almost anything else. I'd go to HYS if I could get in, but otherwise, I'd stay in-state.

My point was essentially that with Nursing and Medicine, there really isn't anything similar to a TTT school. Sure, some schools are more prestigious, and will give you a greater shot at, say, academia or prestigious research jobs, or a Derm residency. But a med school graduate from a #100 med school (and who looks at med school rankings?) isn't going to be in anywhere near the same deep shit as the #100 law school grad. Grades also matter much less. They still matter, for good residency programs, but the median student at your average med school will get in somewhere whereas the JD correlate will be up shit creek.


Part of this is the greater demand and the fact that there isn't nearly as much of a surplus of...any professionals as lawyers. And the super low barriers to entry. T14 is a tough nut to crack to most, but anyone can get into *a* law school and pass. A medical degree/residency/board certification is also much more than a piece of paper or empty credential. JDs and MDs are both "professional degrees" but that's a meaningless category in terms of job opportunities. An MD is closer to a CPA or Engineer, you are actually capable of doing in-demand work. A JD is a glorified liberal arts degree by comparison, which explains why prestige matters so much, and which is part of the reason why I'm second guessing my decision.
Last edited by FalafelWaffle on Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

gas law
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby gas law » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:58 pm

Yeah, some schools are better for more competitive residencies, I agree with that. But if I were still a premed, I would take UF if I could over almost anything else. I'd go to HYS if I could get in, but otherwise, I'd stay in-state.

My point was essentially that with Nursing and Medicine, there really isn't anything similar to a TTT school. Sure, some schools are more prestigious, and will give you a greater shot at, say, academia or prestigious research jobs, or a Derm residency. But a med school graduate from a #100 med school (and who looks at med school rankings?) isn't going to be in anywhere near the same deep shit as the #100 law school grad. Grades also matter much less. They still matter, for good residency programs, but the median student at your average med school will get in somewhere whereas the JD correlate will be up shit creek.[/quote]

+1.

frijoles99
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:19 pm

Ignoring the nursing/med school discussion. I understand those that may be paralegals would want to continue, but I think that is the minority. Someone acknowledged that a number of people expect that they will place highly in their class. Must we acknowledge some deep rooted illogical optomism?

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:38 pm

Another good reason to go to law school-if you get into Yale. I mean, even if you decided that you hated the idea of being a lawyer and changed your mind, you'd basically be a fool not to go to Yale if you got in. Beyond reputation and legal jobs, their LRAP is just so phenomenal it wouldn't even matter what you did after.

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Marionberry
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Marionberry » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:40 pm

Why not Law School? Am I right?

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:09 am

Marionberry wrote:Why not Law School? Am I right?


Ahhhh :strokes chin:




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