US News Recruiter Rankings

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:00 pm

rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.

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rman1201
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby rman1201 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:19 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


TBF, a 14% response rate is pretty good as far as mail out surveys go.
But I agree that the sample and response rate is still too low to draw any sort of meaningful inference from these rankings. I do see the point though - eventually this would be a useful rating to include in the rankings. The first few attempts would be expected to draw a low response rate, but once the measure becomes more established we could probably expect a higher response. Right now this is just in the 'beta phase'.

And no, I do not work for US News.

bdubs
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby bdubs » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:21 pm

rman1201 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


TBF, a 14% response rate is pretty good as far as mail out surveys go.
But I agree that the sample and response rate is still too low to draw any sort of meaningful inference from these rankings. I do see the point though - eventually this would be a useful rating to include in the rankings. The first few attempts would be expected to draw a low response rate, but once the measure becomes more established we could probably expect a higher response. Right now this is just in the 'beta phase'.

And no, I do not work for US News.


The response rate for the lawyer and judge ratings, which are used in the official rankings, is equally pitiful.

Is anyone else surprised that there were more than 5,300 hiring partners that USNWR was able to identify? How many people do hiring at biglaw firms?

run26.2
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby run26.2 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:47 pm

bdubs wrote:
rman1201 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


TBF, a 14% response rate is pretty good as far as mail out surveys go.
But I agree that the sample and response rate is still too low to draw any sort of meaningful inference from these rankings. I do see the point though - eventually this would be a useful rating to include in the rankings. The first few attempts would be expected to draw a low response rate, but once the measure becomes more established we could probably expect a higher response. Right now this is just in the 'beta phase'.

And no, I do not work for US News.


The response rate for the lawyer and judge ratings, which are used in the official rankings, is equally pitiful.

Is anyone else surprised that there were more than 5,300 hiring partners that USNWR was able to identify? How many people do hiring at biglaw firms?

Furthermore, this type of survey lends itself to exaggerating biases. My guess is that people that think very highly of their alma mater and/or have an inferiority complex are more likely to respond.

In response to rman1201, it is not exactly clear from the survey what is being asked of the recruiters. At one point it says the survey is trying to discern the schools from which the firms recruit. In the same paragraph it says they are asked to rank the schools based on academic reputation. These are different measures, and my not be perfectly related.

I think hiring trends tend to bear this out. Comparing these ratings to the NLJ250 hiring indicates that Chicago and Penn seem to be underrated in the US News list whereas UMich is overrated.

xcountryjunkie
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby xcountryjunkie » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:55 pm

bdubs wrote:
rman1201 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


TBF, a 14% response rate is pretty good as far as mail out surveys go.
But I agree that the sample and response rate is still too low to draw any sort of meaningful inference from these rankings. I do see the point though - eventually this would be a useful rating to include in the rankings. The first few attempts would be expected to draw a low response rate, but once the measure becomes more established we could probably expect a higher response. Right now this is just in the 'beta phase'.

And no, I do not work for US News.


The response rate for the lawyer and judge ratings, which are used in the official rankings, is equally pitiful.

Is anyone else surprised that there were more than 5,300 hiring partners that USNWR was able to identify? How many people do hiring at biglaw firms?


5,300? Nope, 750.

They say in the article: "the U.S. news survey, which was sent last fall to 750 hiring partners and recruiters..." and "the response rate was 14 percent." By my math, that means there were only 105 responses. Not exactly a huge sample size.

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glitched
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby glitched » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:01 pm

uh oh. is another feedback loop about to happen with these rankings every year?

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SemperLegal
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:33 pm

I feel as though the NLJ "Go to Schools" list is in every way more useful than this survey. I would love to see data that shows how many offers were made at OCI for each T14 and how low in class rankings they went, that would be a list worth paying to read.

But mostly, TAGGED.

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dpk711
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby dpk711 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:34 pm

.

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glitched
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby glitched » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:40 pm

SemperLegal wrote:I feel as though the NLJ "Go to Schools" list is in every way more useful than this survey. I would love to see data that shows how many offers were made at OCI for each T14 and how low in class rankings they went, that would be a list worth paying to read.

But mostly, TAGGED.


but nlj doesn't cover the whole "selection bias from HYS.. and according to many TLSers.. NYU"

regardless, these rankings still don't mean much because there is big difference in what recruiters say and what recruiters do.

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androstan
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby androstan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:41 pm

Wow, no GW :/.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby FalafelWaffle » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:42 pm

STTTanford
NorthwesTTTern
GeorgeTTTown
TTTexas
VanderbilTTT


LOL cackles uncontrollably...


Also, yeah, why no GW?

09042014
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:43 pm

LOL some prof has this list on his door at NU law.

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SemperLegal
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:46 pm

glitched wrote:but nlj doesn't cover the whole "selection bias from HYS.. and according to many TLSers.. NYU"

regardless, these rankings still don't mean much because there is big difference in what recruiters say and what recruiters do.



Thats true, but I think we all agree that HYS are by far the best places to graduate, the real question is which T4-25 are the best for those interested in biglaw.

Does any equivalent data exist for other fields? (eg PI, USAO, gov)

09042014
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:48 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
glitched wrote:but nlj doesn't cover the whole "selection bias from HYS.. and according to many TLSers.. NYU"

regardless, these rankings still don't mean much because there is big difference in what recruiters say and what recruiters do.



Thats true, but I think we all agree that HYS are by far the best places to graduate, the real question is which T4-25 are the best for those interested in biglaw.

Does any equivalent data exist for other fields? (eg PI, USAO, gov)


CCN
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Gtown, Texas, Vandy, UCLA, USC
Get a real career.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby Malcolm8X » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Bump the rankings... The greatest piece of news in there was the recruiter saying that the summer class will return to normal for K&E and that they've seen spike in corporate work..

bdubs
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby bdubs » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:11 am

xcountryjunkie wrote:
bdubs wrote:
rman1201 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:TBF, a 14% response rate is pretty good as far as mail out surveys go.
But I agree that the sample and response rate is still too low to draw any sort of meaningful inference from these rankings. I do see the point though - eventually this would be a useful rating to include in the rankings. The first few attempts would be expected to draw a low response rate, but once the measure becomes more established we could probably expect a higher response. Right now this is just in the 'beta phase'.

And no, I do not work for US News.


The response rate for the lawyer and judge ratings, which are used in the official rankings, is equally pitiful.

Is anyone else surprised that there were more than 5,300 hiring partners that USNWR was able to identify? How many people do hiring at biglaw firms?


5,300? Nope, 750.

They say in the article: "the U.S. news survey, which was sent last fall to 750 hiring partners and recruiters..." and "the response rate was 14 percent." By my math, that means there were only 105 responses. Not exactly a huge sample size.


I am a complete failure at RC today, actual work must have distracted me. I thought the respondents were 750, not the total survey distribution. I don't even think I would feel comfortable quizzing a sample of 105 people about a list of 100 schools, your results for most of them will be completely useless.

Sandro
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby Sandro » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:24 am

Im concerned about the sample size.

icpb
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby icpb » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:40 am

Is this something new that's going to incorporated into this year's USNews ranking? If so, how would it impact the top 6 ranked schools of last year?

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nealric
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby nealric » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:40 am

A lot of biglaw recruiters almost never see Yale graduates. There are very few Yalies at V50-100 firms, but still a respectable number of Harvard people. Such recruiters have often no experience with Yalies, so it's not surprising a handful of them didn't give Yale a "5" ranking.

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JCougar
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby JCougar » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:27 am

JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


A 14% response rate actually isn't that bad. Most people ignore these surveys, no matter who sends them out.

The more concerning aspect is that they only mailed out 750 of them.

DreamShake
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby DreamShake » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:41 am

JCougar wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
rman1201 wrote:I dont see the reason for the negative reactions to these rankings. I think its safe to assume these will be factored into the 2012 US News Rankings along with the peer school / lawyer & judge ratings which already exist, however recruiter ratings actually mean something since these are the people who will employ you.

The biggest knock is the tepid 14% response rate. 86% of recruiters though so little of USNWR that they didn't bother giving them the time of day.


A 14% response rate actually isn't that bad. Most people ignore these surveys, no matter who sends them out.

The more concerning aspect is that they only mailed out 750 of them.


For a mass mailing survey...which is widely recognized as one of the poorest statistical measures available.

The gradations are too large (needs to be 1-10 or at least 1-7) and the response rate too low for this survey to be useful. Really, fuck US News for trying to pass off more shoddy statistics as legitimate information.

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androstan
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby androstan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:57 pm

I'm still perplexed by the lack of GW given the presence of i.e. BU, BC, Emory, and UNC. Those are widely considered peers, and many would argue that GW is more "prestigious" and better known, in the legal recruiting/employment world, than UNC.

I echo the concerns about sample size. I don't think these are statistically significant, which would explain the lack of GW (and other oddities pointed out ITT).

Bumi
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby Bumi » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:14 pm

androstan wrote:I don't think these are statistically significant

Yeah, but since when has that stopped us before?

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tome
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby tome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:24 pm

There is a disappointing lack of anti-Penn trolling in this thread.

09042014
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Re: US News Recruiter Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:36 pm

tome wrote:There is a disappointing lack of anti-Penn trolling in this thread.


For a state school, tied with Georgetown is pretty damn good.




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