Advice for International Student

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gursher
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:11 pm

Advice for International Student

Postby gursher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:12 pm

hey.. I am an international student from india at a college in ohio. I am a senior doin my BBA in finance. I am interested in law school.. Can anyone advice wht are the chances of an international students getting into law school in US ?? also can international students settle make a handsome earning with law degree in US??? any thoughts or ideas please..

tvt86
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: Advice for International Student

Postby tvt86 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:30 pm

The chances of getting in to a law school as an international student are pretty similar to getting in as a domestic student. There are no additional barriers for you, especially given that you'll have a US GPA from your undergrad. There may be certain rules that affect your ability to claim 'in-state' status if you apply to state schools in Ohio, but those would present the same issues as they would to a student from another US state who's attending undergrad in Ohio.

And yes, in theory, there are ways to settle here as an international student and to make a good living. Be warned, however, that legal jobs are hard to come by for everyone in the current economy. Also be aware that as a foreigner, employers will have to jump through significantly more hoops to hire you than they will to hire a citizen or permanent resident. This means you'll probably need to be significantly better than the American competition to get a job. Also, once you have a work visa, there will be more hoops for you and your employer to jump through if you want to settle here permanently.

So in summary, getting into law school won't be a problem. Getting a job and settling are possible, but be prepared for a battle.

gursher
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Re: Advice for International Student

Postby gursher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:22 pm

thanks a lot for replying. I am interested in few schools and found that they take only about 10% of international students. which makes it way harder for international students to get into these schools as there aren't many seats. Also is there any way that i can find out; what most of the law school graduates starting salaries are??? and what kind of jobs are there for Law school graduates????

tvt86
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: Advice for International Student

Postby tvt86 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:55 am

The TLS profiles here are a good place to start to look at the employment statistics for the various law schools. http://www.top-law-schools.com/profiles.html. The self-reported data doesn't necessarily tell the full story though - pay attention to the date of the reports and which group of graduates it takes into account.

As for the other point, I'd be genuinely surprised if there are law schools where it's really significantly harder to get in as an international student. Where are you finding that information? I may be wrong of course, but if so, I know that there are plenty of law schools where being a foreigner is not a disadvantage.

gursher
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: Advice for International Student

Postby gursher » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:38 am

hey.. thanks a lot for replying. I went to some of the law school websites and it gave the distribution of the students who got accepted. for example like 10% international students, 40% men, 30% women etc.. something like that.. so from that I assumed that may be some of these law schools might have a certain quota for international students. also thanks for the link. I did look at the Employment Statistics of few schools, like yale and stanford. the salaries these college grads get are good. Any chance u know a place where i can get some information about the law firms in midwest, east cost or california???? thanks again

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tome
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Re: Advice for International Student

Postby tome » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:53 pm

For law firms look at the nalp directory, which you can just Google. This information will not help you at this point, however.

10% international is high for a law school. Not because law schools do not want to take in international students, but because so few apply; for the following reasons:

1) Law school in the states is hugely expensive, and generally only worth the cost if you can get a job in the US to pay it off (lawyers get paid way less in all other countries I am aware of). And it is hard (particularly at the moment) for foreigners to get jobs because it is a hassle and expensive for firms to get them authorization.

2) Physics is the same everywhere in the world. But each county has its own set of laws. So there is only limited utility to learning US law if you plan to work in some other country. So, as a foreigner, you typically will already have a law degree from your home country if you are considering getting a US law degree as well.

3) As stated above law school in the states costs a lot of money. Most people (domestic and foreign) do not have the money on hand to pay for it, and so need to take out loans. But federal loans are restricted to permanent residents and citizens. So most foreigners simply cannot finance the degree.

So foreign students tend to either have green cards and intend to remain in the states after graduation, or plan on heading back home but already have a foreign law degree and a company/firm financing their US degree.

Why do you even want a US law degree in the first place?

gursher
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Re: Advice for International Student

Postby gursher » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:37 pm

tome wrote:For law firms look at the nalp directory, which you can just Google. This information will not help you at this point, however.

10% international is high for a law school. Not because law schools do not want to take in international students, but because so few apply; for the following reasons:

1) Law school in the states is hugely expensive, and generally only worth the cost if you can get a job in the US to pay it off (lawyers get paid way less in all other countries I am aware of). And it is hard (particularly at the moment) for foreigners to get jobs because it is a hassle and expensive for firms to get them authorization.

2) Physics is the same everywhere in the world. But each county has its own set of laws. So there is only limited utility to learning US law if you plan to work in some other country. So, as a foreigner, you typically will already have a law degree from your home country if you are considering getting a US law degree as well.

3) As stated above law school in the states costs a lot of money. Most people (domestic and foreign) do not have the money on hand to pay for it, and so need to take out loans. But federal loans are restricted to permanent residents and citizens. So most foreigners simply cannot finance the degree.

So foreign students tend to either have green cards and intend to remain in the states after graduation, or plan on heading back home but already have a foreign law degree and a company/firm financing their US degree.

Why do you even want a US law degree in the first place?


Ok. let me be honest with you. I have two sisters they both will be doctor of dental surgery in 2 years from Boston University and I just dont want to be a regular BBA finance boy and I dont want to go into dental or any medical field. Also I am not into engineering. So I think Law might be a field which has lot of social respect and you can make good money (close to my sisters, they will probably start above 100k starting salary)

I just want to go into a field where I can get respect and money. For some reason business fields like marketing and Finance dont make me feel so good.. Thats all I have!!!

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violinst
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Re: Advice for International Student

Postby violinst » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:47 pm

gursher wrote:
tome wrote:For law firms look at the nalp directory, which you can just Google. This information will not help you at this point, however.

10% international is high for a law school. Not because law schools do not want to take in international students, but because so few apply; for the following reasons:

1) Law school in the states is hugely expensive, and generally only worth the cost if you can get a job in the US to pay it off (lawyers get paid way less in all other countries I am aware of). And it is hard (particularly at the moment) for foreigners to get jobs because it is a hassle and expensive for firms to get them authorization.

2) Physics is the same everywhere in the world. But each county has its own set of laws. So there is only limited utility to learning US law if you plan to work in some other country. So, as a foreigner, you typically will already have a law degree from your home country if you are considering getting a US law degree as well.

3) As stated above law school in the states costs a lot of money. Most people (domestic and foreign) do not have the money on hand to pay for it, and so need to take out loans. But federal loans are restricted to permanent residents and citizens. So most foreigners simply cannot finance the degree.

So foreign students tend to either have green cards and intend to remain in the states after graduation, or plan on heading back home but already have a foreign law degree and a company/firm financing their US degree.

Why do you even want a US law degree in the first place?


Ok. let me be honest with you. I have two sisters they both will be doctor of dental surgery in 2 years from Boston University and I just dont want to be a regular BBA finance boy and I dont want to go into dental or any medical field. Also I am not into engineering. So I think Law might be a field which has lot of social respect and you can make good money (close to my sisters, they will probably start above 100k starting salary)

I just want to go into a field where I can get respect and money. For some reason business fields like marketing and Finance dont make me feel so good.. Thats all I have!!!


No, law school is not worth it if you just want to compete with your sisters.

There are many easier ways to get respect and money.

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aspire2more
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:23 am

Re: Advice for International Student

Postby aspire2more » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:20 pm

violinst wrote:No, law school is not worth it if you just want to compete with your sisters.

There are many easier ways to get respect and money.


+1

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deadpoetnsp
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Re: Advice for International Student

Postby deadpoetnsp » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:03 pm

I'm an international student who applied this cycle. Here's my 2 cents.

tl;dr version:
1. You can predict where you will get admitted, and how much scholarship will be awarded from your GPA and your LSAT
2. lawschoolnumbers.com and lawschoolpredictors.com will help you with 1.
3. A legal career is all about your "pedigree" (which law school are you coming from). Avoid going to schools ranked below 50

Longer version:
A legal career is all about pedigree: people graduating from the top 14 (not top 13 or 15, but specifically the top 14 schools, known here as T14 schools) are supposedly the cream of the crop, and they are the ones who get the plum jobs that pay well and make you work >60 hours/week. People graduating from schools ranked 15-30 are the next in line. These schools tend to be more "regional" than the T14, meaning that they tend to place graduates in specific markets. Schools ranked 30-40-50, if you are in the top 5-10% of your class, you will have an easier chance of finding a job. There are about a 100 schools ranked below 50, and most people on this website will firmly tell you to avoid those schools except for specific circumstances.

Now, getting this pedigree--getting admitted to a top law school--is a numbers game. Yes, there supposedly are softs and holistic factors besides your GPA and LSAT, and each applicant thinks s/he is a special snowflake. But largely, you can predict where you will get admitted, and how much scholarship will be awarded from your GPA and your LSAT. Since you have a US undergrad, life will be easier for you than other internationals who have a "blank" GPA--provided you have a good GPA.

The first thing you should do is go to lawschoolnumbers.com and look at people who have got through this cycle and the last couple of years at various schools. It will give you a VERY good idea of where you will get in with how much scholarship. Usernames with an 'I' beside them in blue are international applicants. The second thing you should do is go to lawschoolpredictor.com and plug in your GPA and play with possible LSAT ranges to find which schools will realistically admit you.

In a nutshell:
LSAT>174-175, GPA>3.8 you are looking at the top 10 schools with good money.
LSAT>170, GPA>3.8, you are looking at schools ranked 10-14, with some money. However, schools ranked 15-25 will offer very good scholarships.
LSAT>167-168, GPA>3.8, no T14 will take you, but you should get decent money from schools ranked 18 or so onwards.

It is possible to get almost a full-tuition scholarship or a full-tuition scholarship with an LSAT in the range of 168-172 with a GPA of 3.7 or higher at a school ranked 15-25 and downwards. You want to avoid going to a school ranked lower than about 50. Keep in mind that law schools typically do not award living stipends. Even if you get a full-tuition scholarship, you will have to arrange for about 25K/year in living expenses.

If you know you are not capable of getting an LSAT>165, only go to law school if you have enough money to burn (about 200K over three years, including tuition and cost-of-living).

Finally: you should go to law school if and only if you are passionate about law for some reason and/or you have spoken to a substantial number of lawyers/law students.




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