real estate PE -> JD/MBA -> Real Estate Law -> Distressed RE Forum

[PEguy]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?)

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm)

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on?

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools)

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

[PEguy]

31 views no responseS? blast!

[theLSATnemesis]

I am also interested in doing something similar to this, but I'm not sure if I should do a JD/MBA or continue on to a masters/ph.d.

[GATORTIM]

31 views no responseS? blast!

we smell your disinterest

[Flanker1067]

LULZ

[bdubs]

There were a decent number of people who came from and went back into banking/PE in the Northwestern JD/MBA program. No one I talked to wanted to go into practice just so they could get back into PE, if they were interested in that they were going straight back.

You probably have a good shot at Penn, and decent but not great shot at Columbia. I would have said you should get into Michigan, but I haven't heard back from them yet and am kind of expecting a WL (I have very similar stats to you).

Your 3 years of WE is on the low end, but MBA programs love PE so you will have a decent shot if you write good essays.

[PEguy]

^thanks for the reply. Yes I know that my 3 years is on the low end at NU, but by the time I actually started there I'd have close to 4... and I may even wait another year at which point I'd have 4/5 instead of 3/4...

It seems to me that the grades people have at Penn / Columbia are just so damn high... I mean, I guess some of them went to bad UG schools (not Ivies or Stanford, etc), but still... I'd be well outside the 25-75 percentile range with a 3.5.... that doesn't seem good. I've heard some people say that with W/E it sort of "distances you" from the UG transcript a bit though -- sounds kind of BS to me.

[PEguy]

31 views no responseS? blast!

we smell your disinterest

I didn't know Gators has such a good sense of smell : )

[BeenDidThat]

^thanks for the reply. Yes I know that my 3 years is on the low end at NU, but by the time I actually started there I'd have close to 4... and I may even wait another year at which point I'd have 4/5 instead of 3/4...

It seems to me that the grades people have at Penn / Columbia are just so damn high... I mean, I guess some of them went to bad UG schools (not Ivies or Stanford, etc), but still... I'd be well outside the 25-75 percentile range with a 3.5.... that doesn't seem good. I've heard some people say that with W/E it sort of "distances you" from the UG transcript a bit though -- sounds kind of BS to me.

Felt trollish before. Now I can see the ugly head peeking out from under the bridge.

[Army2Law]

Pretty sure NYU has a 3 year JD/MBA program. Might be worth going that route.

[bdubs]

^thanks for the reply. Yes I know that my 3 years is on the low end at NU, but by the time I actually started there I'd have close to 4... and I may even wait another year at which point I'd have 4/5 instead of 3/4...

It seems to me that the grades people have at Penn / Columbia are just so damn high... I mean, I guess some of them went to bad UG schools (not Ivies or Stanford, etc), but still... I'd be well outside the 25-75 percentile range with a 3.5.... that doesn't seem good. I've heard some people say that with W/E it sort of "distances you" from the UG transcript a bit though -- sounds kind of BS to me.

Felt trollish before. Now I can see the ugly head peeking out from under the bridge.

Dude works in PE, they are all like that

[bdubs]

Pretty sure NYU has a 3 year JD/MBA program. Might be worth going that route.

No, no they do not.

[PEguy]

^thanks for the reply. Yes I know that my 3 years is on the low end at NU, but by the time I actually started there I'd have close to 4... and I may even wait another year at which point I'd have 4/5 instead of 3/4...

It seems to me that the grades people have at Penn / Columbia are just so damn high... I mean, I guess some of them went to bad UG schools (not Ivies or Stanford, etc), but still... I'd be well outside the 25-75 percentile range with a 3.5.... that doesn't seem good. I've heard some people say that with W/E it sort of "distances you" from the UG transcript a bit though -- sounds kind of BS to me.

Felt trollish before. Now I can see the ugly head peeking out from under the bridge.

Dude works in PE, they are all like that

yes - it's true... sorry. I realize I'm an asshole... but I also promise I'm being honest

[PEguy]

Pretty sure NYU has a 3 year JD/MBA program. Might be worth going that route.

That would be legit, but I'm pretty sure they don't.

[PEguy]

related topic... I know that Akin Gump has a group called "distressed real estate asset services"... do you guys know of other biglaw firms with practice areas / groups dedicated to distressed RE assets?

[jtemp320]

Pretty sure NYU has a 3 year JD/MBA program. Might be worth going that route.

That would be legit, but I'm pretty sure they don't.

They dont but Columbia does - but yes your GPA is low for them but not impossible if you ED with that LSAT and those softs

I think you have a very good shot at Penn, will be in at Northwestern and have a shot at NYU as well...dont know about MBA admissions but you sound like a strong candidate on that side as well...

Apply early and good luck

[bdubs]

Pretty sure NYU has a 3 year JD/MBA program. Might be worth going that route.

That would be legit, but I'm pretty sure they don't.

They dont but Columbia does - but yes your GPA is low for them but not impossible if you ED with that LSAT and those softs

I think you have a very good shot at Penn, will be in at Northwestern and have a shot at NYU as well...dont know about MBA admissions but you sound like a strong candidate on that side as well...

Apply early and good luck

Good call, if you ED to Penn that would probably settle any issues about whether you would get in. Columbia you would probably need ED to give you a strong shot.

[Veyron]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?) No

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm) No

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on? No

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba Not unless you get FF or something

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools) Yes

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

You are so welcome

[PEguy]

^I don't get i

[Veyron]

^I don't get i

Responses are directly in the quote in bold.

[byamargin]

Dear OP,

I am a 3L at a T20 law school. I have a big law real estate job lined up, however my dream job is being an associate in the international real estate division of KKR or Blackstone (and will consider working in NYC, London, Hong Kong, and Beijing). If you work in one of these two firms and are willing to help me out with my getting a job there, I am willing to (1) help you with any question you have about applying to law school in general or certain schools, as well as questions about whether pursuing a JD and/OR MBA is right for you, (2) do my best to get you into my school's JD/MBA program (though with your numbers I am sure you will need little help from me), (3) put you in touch now or in the future with the head of the real estate division in the big law firm that extended me an offer, (4) be your best friend.

I am 100% serious with respect to every word in the above response. Feel free to PM me.

[lolschool2011]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?)

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm)

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on?

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools)

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

I might want to start a company with you.... tagged for future PM.

[byamargin]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?)

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm)

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on?

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools)

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

I might want to start a company with you.... tagged for future PM.

Back off immediately, he's mine.

(I would like to add that I am very attractive and try to keep an open mind.)

[lolschool2011]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?)

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm)

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on?

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools)

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

I might want to start a company with you.... tagged for future PM.

Back off immediately, he's mine.

(I would like to add that I am very attractive and am willing to consider a wide range of proposals. No, seriously, PM me, yeah?)

PE guy, please excuse these lewd distractions from "byamargin." What I have in the works is a game changer, and I have the vision/experience to see this to through; it will essentially create a new market, and one that already has (if you read between the lines) the full support of the Fed, treasury, and gov. The county will quickly embrace it as well b/c it's transparent, honest, makes sense, and promotes sustainable investment in real estate promoting a stable market. My business plan/model is still being developed, and for obvious reasons won't be revealed here today. I might hold onto it until after law school, but we'll see.

[byamargin]

I wanted to know if you guys think I'm crazy for wanting to get a JD/MBA despite the fact that I'm not sure I want to practice as a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, I want to end up back in real estate finance (PE or Real Estate group in IBD). I want to get the JD (and perhaps practice for 4-5 years) for a number of reasons: (1) I'm intellectually curious about the law (2) I feel it'll give me a fresh perspective on problem solving in general and the types of deals I already work and finally (3) it'll give me a new tool set with which to unlock value while working in real estate finance... this could mean just structuring "regular" transactions more efficiently, or investing in distressed assets and other special situations, etc... (4) if I want to go out on my own and start a fund in 20 years, I think having a JD would be good then, particularly when I'm working with a smaller team (no lawyers on staff)

some background on me:
(1) I'm 25 and I graduated from an ivy league school w/ a 3.5 GPA in '08
(2) I work in Real Estate PE (3 years experience) at a solid firm and have very good experience working internationally (started in UK for under a year and now I have been in China for 2+ years... I speak mandarin almost fluently)
(3) 740 GMAT, 173 LSAT

My goal is to apply for Northwestern/Michigan/NYU as my primary target choices and Penn/Columbia/Uchicago as my more "reach" schools (I know my GPA is low for a lot of these places). I'll definitely give preference to NW, Columbia and Penn, cause I can do those in 3 years which is way more attractive to me.

A few questions:

1. Thinking long term (like when I'm 40+), is having experience with the law / a jd from a solid school going to help me as a real estate investor? (will I understand restructuring, mergers, etc, better than I would simply having worked as an investment banker? Will I be able to structure transactions in a way that adds value beyond what a "normal" lawyer would do?)

2. Is having a JD / experience as a lawyer going to help me if I want to start my own RE fund one day? (with management stuff and limiting legal expenses... which is a huge portion of the expenses for a new PE firm)

3. Are law firms going to smell my lack of dedication to the law and not hire me? after law school? Even though I have connections to partners and so on?

4. If I do get the JD/MBA and then get hired by a top law firm to work in corporate law, will I be a good candidate to switch back to IBD/PE after about 4 years of practicing law... I'd be 33 years old and have 4 years in PE 4 years in law + jd/mba

5. Do I even have a shot at getting into the law schools I'm aiming for? (I know I do for business school... but i realize my grades are low for law schools)

thanks, I realize this post is absurdly long and feel free to respond to only one part/question. All comments highly appreciated.

I might want to start a company with you.... tagged for future PM.

Back off immediately, he's mine.

(I would like to add that I am very attractive and am willing to consider a wide range of proposals. No, seriously, PM me, yeah?)

PE guy, please excuse these lewd distractions from "byamargin." What I have in the works is a game changer, and I have the vision/experience to see this to through; it will essentially create a new market, and one that already has (if you read between the lines) the full support of the Fed, treasury, and gov. The county will quickly embrace it as well b/c it's transparent, honest, makes sense, and promotes sustainable investment in real estate promoting a stable market. My business plan/model is still being developed, and for obvious reasons won't be revealed here today. I might hold onto it until after law school, but we'll see.

I don't get based on what you decided that this (nice, cool) analyst/associate will be a good business partner for you. Go launch a private offering for your awesome venture or write some addenda for your law school apps. Now, if you don't mind, we're trying to focus on more pertinent and viable matters in this thread.