Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

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JeanMarie
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Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:53 am

Law school can be a disastrous decision. A year ago, no one knew how the structural problems in the law job market would affect those from T14 schools or associates in BigLaw. Now we know all know better. This is more than a question of a "bad economy." The problems were present before, but the bad economy has exacerbated them.

What happens to the BigLaw lawyer with a family who gets laid off? Think she can just quickly find a job elsewhere? Not so fast. These are my friends who you are talking about. People from good schools, with good grades, who are now in a terrible situation.

I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions. I still regret my decision. And those with $100,000+ debt? That is a ruined life. Imagine the toll that that kind of debt can take on your family or your marriage prospects when your income is barely enough to service it.

If you want information on what I did and where I ended up, you can message me privately.

A final question: do you think that the naysayers are exaggerating when they are telling you that law school, knowing what we all know today, is a stupid move? What will you say in three years when, inevitably for most of you, you end up in a similar position?

ADDITIONAL REMARK (Thanks, for asking the question): Career Services kept us optimistic until the last semester. I guess by then we had already paid all our tuition money. Even in April of graduating year, my classmates and I thought we would find something and that our education was worth the money. We would even make jokes about the "sky-is-falling!" blogs. It's as though we were deluding ourselves.

We were from a good school. None of us were slackers. We all had good-to-great grades. It didn't make sense that we would end up without any offers of employment.

IF YOU WANT PERSONAL INFORMATION ON MY STATS AND BACKGROUND, AS SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, PLEASE SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE. I WILL NOT RESPOND IN PUBLIC.

FINAL NOTE: If I stop responding abruptly, it is because I have been banned from this website. The most likely reason? "Trolling." This site looks like an echo chamber where you all can encourage yourselves and say to yourselves, "won't happen to me!!!" That's even with the fact that I'm just saying what happened, and what will probably happen to you too. :oops:
Last edited by JeanMarie on Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Danteshek
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Danteshek » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:59 am

Class rank?

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2011Cycle
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby 2011Cycle » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:59 am

At what point during your law school attendance, did you get a sense the 4500-6000 jobs available annually which provide enough income to service 100k of debt, may not have been in your reach. This is a serious question, not sarcasm. I am in the process of applying and am firm on realizing there are only 4500-6000 slots per year which would justify borrowing 6-figures.

Thanks in advance
Last edited by 2011Cycle on Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Grizz » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:00 am

Seriously, we've all heard this a million times.

Cool story, bro.

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dooterdude11
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby dooterdude11 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:03 am

JeanMarie wrote:Law school can be a disastrous decision. A year ago, no one knew how the structural problems in the law job market would affect those from T14 schools or associates in BigLaw. Now we know all know better. This is more than a question of a "bad economy." The problems were present before, but the bad economy has exacerbated them.

What happens to the BigLaw lawyer with a family who gets laid off? Think she can just quickly find a job elsewhere? Not so fast. These are my friends who you are talking about. People from good schools, with good grades, who are now in a terrible situation.

I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions. I still regret my decision. And those with $100,000+ debt? That is a ruined life. Imagine the toll that that kind of debt can take on your family or your marriage prospects when your income is barely enough to service it.

If you want information on what I did and where I ended up, you can message me privately.

A final question: do you think that the naysayers are exaggerating when they are telling you that law school, knowing what we all know today, is a stupid move? What will you say in three years when, inevitably for most of you, you end up in a similar position?



After reading this, I really wonder: why do people post stuff like this on a forum for people who have already decided to go to law school thinking--for whatever crazy reason--that a dire, obviously hyperbolic warning (because there is voluminous evidence to temper what you say here, for T-14's) from an anonymous internet source will have serious influence on anyone?

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:35 am

Danteshek wrote:Class rank?


Private message me.

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:38 am

2011Cycle wrote:At what point during your law school attendance, did you get a sense the 4500-6000 jobs available annually which provide enough income to service 100k of debt, may not have been in your reach. This is a serious question, not sarcasm. I am in the process of applying and am firm on realizing there are only 4500-6000 slots per year which would justify borrowing 6-figures.

Thanks in advance


That's hard to say. Career Services kept us optimistic until the last semester. I guess by then we had already paid all our tuition money. Even in April of graduating year, my classmates and I thought we would find something and that our education was worth the money. We would even make jokes about the "sky-is-falling!" blogs. It's as though we were deluding ourselves.

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fugitivejammer
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby fugitivejammer » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:40 am

Just to gauge the severity of the issue from your prospective, can you give me an idea of what scenario would the "disaster result" not be prevalent? In other words, would your observation still apply to graduates in the t-6? or students in the top whatever % of there class?

Also, are there certain characteristics that students who more easily got jobs have in common (besides GPA)? Does networking ability seem to stand out amongst them, or work experience/grad degrees. Thanks

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sophia.olive
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby sophia.olive » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:45 am

^Yes, please define "many"

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:54 am

fugitivejammer wrote:Just to gauge the severity of the issue from your prospective, can you give me an idea of what scenario would the "disaster result" not be prevalent? In other words, would your observation still apply to graduates in the t-6? or students in the top whatever % of there class?

Also, are there certain characteristics that students who more easily got jobs have in common (besides GPA)? Does networking ability seem to stand out amongst them, or work experience/grad degrees. Thanks


Even networking now is not a sure bet. Imagine you have a family friend in BigLaw. That family friend now has a lot less room to put his connections into the firm than ever before. He has to pick judiciously. He will pick his nephew over his family friend. And his son before his nephew. As far as the "losers" this partner meets at law firm receptions? You can pretty much forget about it without a miracle.

You can be from the T6 and consider yourself lucky because you have an associate job, and then you lose it. Your life goes into a tailspin. The summer associate classes were drastically cut. T6 graduates are moving downwards in their job search, and many of them are being left out in the cold, though of course it's better to be a T6 than a T14 law student, all things being equal.

Outside of BigLaw, the job market is just as bad, if not worse, which is why it KILLS me to read people saying, "Oh, well, I never wanted those corporate jobs anyway."

I don't know what you mean by "networking" ability. Networking isn't a game. It's a question of your network. You either have it or you don't. Schmoozing won't get you far when everyone's doing the same degree of schmoozing, and when the partner you're talking to knows that you're just doing it for a job.

Generally, and obviously, those with top 10% grades and law journal (not talking about specialized journals, which are mostly not really prestigious at all or selective) and who have connections have the best chance of getting a job. The problem is that so many with good, or even great, grades from great schools are now coming up empty.

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:55 am

sophia.olive wrote:^Yes, please define "many"


Depends on the school. T10-T14? More than 50%, easily. CCN? 25-50%. HYS? I would estimate 10-30%.

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mpasi
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby mpasi » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:06 am

These LSD and Auto Admit trolls start early. It's a flame, people. Stop playing with it. Pretty soon we'll be seeing posts from the JDs who are doing part-time doc review or are arguing the merits of FISA while handing people their change at 7-11. Just wait and see.


For future reference: Low post count + recent registration + bullshit cautionary "OMGZ, lawl school suckz!" post = troll.
Last edited by mpasi on Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PDaddy
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby PDaddy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:12 am

I'll still get my law degree, but will do so only with a fat scholly from a top-10 school. Otherwise, it isn't worth it. OP is right, things aren't going to turn around very soon, and some really bright, talented folks are being left out. The new strategies are B-School, start-ups/entrepreneurship or Med School. The other option is that you can just go get a regular job. law school is not the move for most right now.

That said, I'm still going to do it.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby sophia.olive » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:13 am

mpasi wrote:These LSD and Auto Admit trolls start early. It's a flame, people. Stop playing with it. Pretty soon we'll be seeing posts from the JDs who are doing part-time doc review or are working at 7-11. Just wait and see.


For future reference: Low post count + recent registration + bullshit cautionary "OMGZ, lawl school suckz!" post = troll.

From someone who is pretending to be Halle Berry.... yeah sure.... :D

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mpasi
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby mpasi » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:16 am

sophia.olive wrote:
mpasi wrote:These LSD and Auto Admit trolls start early. It's a flame, people. Stop playing with it. Pretty soon we'll be seeing posts from the JDs who are doing part-time doc review or are working at 7-11. Just wait and see.


For future reference: Low post count + recent registration + bullshit cautionary "OMGZ, lawl school suckz!" post = troll.

From someone who is pretending to be Halle Berry.... yeah sure.... :D




http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+an+avatar%3F

HTH

You could also do a simple search of the other 10,000 "OMG, don't do it!" threads that have been posted. They're all the same.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby sophia.olive » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:22 am

mpasi wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:
mpasi wrote:These LSD and Auto Admit trolls start early. It's a flame, people. Stop playing with it. Pretty soon we'll be seeing posts from the JDs who are doing part-time doc review or are working at 7-11. Just wait and see.


For future reference: Low post count + recent registration + bullshit cautionary "OMGZ, lawl school suckz!" post = troll.

From someone who is pretending to be Halle Berry.... yeah sure.... :D




http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+an+avatar%3F

HTH

You could also do a simple search of the other 10,000 "OMG, don't do it!" threads that have been posted. They're all the same.

oh i was joking... sorry..

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:25 am

Class rank? Just post it.

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KMaine
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby KMaine » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:27 am

JeanMarie wrote:I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions.
How many people did you know personally? 3? I am not saying things are perfect, but if you want to present the situation as it is, at least be honest.

shastaca
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby shastaca » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:46 am

c-span broadcast a panel discussion on the future of law. A Wilmer-Hale managing partner said he foresees continuing to hire half as many associates as they did in 08. They all reflected a major shift in the profession/market. No surprise. Law is a knowledge based profession and IT changes the nature of marketable knowledge.

spondee
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby spondee » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:23 am

KMaine wrote:
JeanMarie wrote:I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions.
How many people did you know personally? 3? I am not saying things are perfect, but if you want to present the situation as it is, at least be honest.


Agreed. That one sentence immediately made me disbelieve everything else.

miamiman
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby miamiman » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:27 am

Not saying things are wonderful; lord knows I'm somewhat of the bearer of bad news around here but how could anyone at any T14 not know another person going into BigLaw?

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:09 am

KMaine wrote:
JeanMarie wrote:I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions.
How many people did you know personally? 3? I am not saying things are perfect, but if you want to present the situation as it is, at least be honest.


I knew of a few people who got were signed onto BigLaw pre-graduation (actually, it's closer to "few" than "a few"). But those were not people I knew personally. I'm a pretty social bird who did lots of extra-currics (journal, clubs, meet and greets).
Last edited by JeanMarie on Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Doritos
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Doritos » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:09 am

nevermind

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:10 am

spondee wrote:
KMaine wrote:
JeanMarie wrote:I went to a T14, but no one I knew personally landed a BigLaw job at graduation, and only a handful of graduates found government positions.
How many people did you know personally? 3? I am not saying things are perfect, but if you want to present the situation as it is, at least be honest.


Agreed. That one sentence immediately made me disbelieve everything else.


That's your choice.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby sophia.olive » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:15 am

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