Is a JD/MBA worth it?

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CCNP
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Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby CCNP » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:29 pm

I would kindly like to hear any possible feedback on whether the JD/MBA is worth the extra year and extra debt?

I wish to study business law (specifically corporate/securities/tax law) and feel that the training I will get from a MBA program will complement that career goal. Or alternatively, training/study in bus law will complement a career in consulting/banking.

1. Will a JD/MBA give me a competitive advantage throughout my career?

2. Will a JD/MBA give me the flexibility to switch from law to a business field (let say consulting) and vice versa if I find the desire to?

3. A person straight out of undergrad can get into a top JD program. Is this possible for a JD/MBA program? Or, is it very common for JD/MBA applicants to get accepted into the JD portion but get rejected for the MBA portion?

4. Is it typical for law students to apply for dual degree after their 1st yr? Are they usually successful?

Thanks. :)

HITeacher2
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby HITeacher2 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:51 am

The following JD/MBAs are worth it as both schools are outstanding and friendly to UG seniors applying:

Harvard Law and Harvard Business
Stanford Law and Stanford Business

The following JD/MBAs are worth it but much harder to get into w/o work experience
Penn Law and Wharton
Northwestern Law and Kellogg

The following JD/MBAs are still pretty good, but maybe not worth a 4th year at $50,000
Chicago Law and Booth
Columbia Law and Columbia Business
NYU Law and Stern
Berkeley Law and Haas
Yale Law and Yale SOM (3-year program available)
Duke Law and Fuqua

The following JD/MBAs are probably not worth it (sorry in advance)
Michigan Law and Ross
Virginia Law and Darden
UCLA Law and Anderson
UT Law and McCombs
USC Law and Marshall
Cornell Law and Johnson
Georgetown Law and McDonough
Anything Else

That said, the common knowledge I've been hearing tends to be the following:

1) If you don't enter law immediately after graduating law school, you're going to get a very cold shoulder.
2) If you don't enter business immediately after graduating b-school, transferring is still quite possible.
3) Very few MBAs (see the top of the aforementioned list) will hold any weight in a law firm
4) The reason JDs apply to JD/MBAs after their first year is because the grass is greener, especially in this economy.
5) It's much much rarer to see MBAs apply for a JD/MBA because the grass is not greener.
6) B-school apps are more involved than law school apps, and are difficult to complete during 1L without pre-1L planning.
7) Without years of full time work experience (exceptions being HBS, Stanford GSB and Yale SOM) getting into b-school is nearly impossible. B-school apps are MUCH less numbers-based and much more leadership and work experience based.

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Knock
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby Knock » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:23 am

HITeacher2 wrote:The following JD/MBAs are worth it as both schools are outstanding and friendly to UG seniors applying:

Harvard Law and Harvard Business
Stanford Law and Stanford Business

The following JD/MBAs are worth it but much harder to get into w/o work experience
Penn Law and Wharton
Northwestern Law and Kellogg

The following JD/MBAs are still pretty good, but maybe not worth a 4th year at $50,000
Chicago Law and Booth
Columbia Law and Columbia Business
NYU Law and Stern
Berkeley Law and Haas
Yale Law and Yale SOM (3-year program available)
Duke Law and Fuqua

The following JD/MBAs are probably not worth it (sorry in advance)
Michigan Law and Ross
Virginia Law and Darden
UCLA Law and Anderson
UT Law and McCombs
USC Law and Marshall
Cornell Law and Johnson
Georgetown Law and McDonough
Anything Else

That said, the common knowledge I've been hearing tends to be the following:

1) If you don't enter law immediately after graduating law school, you're going to get a very cold shoulder.
2) If you don't enter business immediately after graduating b-school, transferring is still quite possible.
3) Very few MBAs (see the top of the aforementioned list) will hold any weight in a law firm
4) The reason JDs apply to JD/MBAs after their first year is because the grass is greener, especially in this economy.
5) It's much much rarer to see MBAs apply for a JD/MBA because the grass is not greener.
6) B-school apps are more involved than law school apps, and are difficult to complete during 1L without pre-1L planning.
7) Without years of full time work experience (exceptions being HBS, Stanford GSB and Yale SOM) getting into b-school is nearly impossible. B-school apps are MUCH less numbers-based and much more leadership and work experience based.


Thanks for a GREAT post! Very informative.

For point #6, what kind of pre-1L planning should be done to make applying to B-school easier during 1L?

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traehekat
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby traehekat » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:34 am

Re: 7...

I've actually heard (this may not be the same case everywhere, though) that it is easier to get into business school if you are applying as a dual JD/MBA candidate rather than just as an MBA candidate, as far as necessary work experience goes, at least.

Can anyone verify/refute this?

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The Kid
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby The Kid » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm

I have another question. Can it hurt my chances of being accepted into a JD if I apply to the dual degree program (anyone) as a 0L? What I mean is: if they don't accept me for the MBA (or whatever other program), then I got automatically rejected for the JD as well?

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby pleasetryagain » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:18 pm

The Kid wrote:I have another question. Can it hurt my chances of being accepted into a JD if I apply to the dual degree program (anyone) as a 0L? What I mean is: if they don't accept me for the MBA (or whatever other program), then I got automatically rejected for the JD as well?


no.

NightHooded
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby NightHooded » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:35 pm

OK i want to jump on board (great thread!)...

Regarding the need to plan before 1L... from a cursory glance didn't seem to indicate this to me. I'm assuming you need 2 or 3 LORs, and the GMAT, and some essays? Is the essay prep the killer one?

My real questions:

1. can you justify the MBA application from your JD 1L (i.e. "it never occurred to me before but now that I'm fascinated by corp law I realize an MBA will help me immensely") On this note, are you expected to get a newly-met law prof. to write for you?

2. Is it better to prep the GMAT or GRE? It seems like the GRE is now accepted, and doing well on it would also open the door to MPA, MPP, etc. (i.e. it seems like if you do GRE this summer, you will have other options open to you)

If I attend a law school with a good MBA program, I dont see why I shouldn't at least apply.

jnorsky
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby jnorsky » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:41 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:The following JD/MBAs are worth it as both schools are outstanding and friendly to UG seniors applying:

Harvard Law and Harvard Business
Stanford Law and Stanford Business

The following JD/MBAs are worth it but much harder to get into w/o work experience
Penn Law and Wharton
Northwestern Law and Kellogg

The following JD/MBAs are still pretty good, but maybe not worth a 4th year at $50,000
Chicago Law and Booth
Columbia Law and Columbia Business
NYU Law and Stern
Berkeley Law and Haas
Yale Law and Yale SOM (3-year program available)
Duke Law and Fuqua

The following JD/MBAs are probably not worth it (sorry in advance)
Michigan Law and Ross
Virginia Law and Darden
UCLA Law and Anderson
UT Law and McCombs
USC Law and Marshall
Cornell Law and Johnson
Georgetown Law and McDonough
Anything Else


That said, the common knowledge I've been hearing tends to be the following:

1) If you don't enter law immediately after graduating law school, you're going to get a very cold shoulder.
2) If you don't enter business immediately after graduating b-school, transferring is still quite possible.
3) Very few MBAs (see the top of the aforementioned list) will hold any weight in a law firm
4) The reason JDs apply to JD/MBAs after their first year is because the grass is greener, especially in this economy.
5) It's much much rarer to see MBAs apply for a JD/MBA because the grass is not greener.
6) B-school apps are more involved than law school apps, and are difficult to complete during 1L without pre-1L planning.
7) Without years of full time work experience (exceptions being HBS, Stanford GSB and Yale SOM) getting into b-school is nearly impossible. B-school apps are MUCH less numbers-based and much more leadership and work experience based.


To group NYU Stern and Duke Faqua as well as Yale's school of business in with Chicago's seems odd. And if you group those schools then Michigan (Ross) should be included as well for their MBA program and probably Virginia (Darden).

NightHooded
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby NightHooded » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:20 pm

NightHooded wrote:OK i want to jump on board (great thread!)...

Regarding the need to plan before 1L... from a cursory glance didn't seem to indicate this to me. I'm assuming you need 2 or 3 LORs, and the GMAT, and some essays? Is the essay prep the killer one?

My real questions:

1. can you justify the MBA application from your JD 1L (i.e. "it never occurred to me before but now that I'm fascinated by corp law I realize an MBA will help me immensely") On this note, are you expected to get a newly-met law prof. to write for you?

2. Is it better to prep the GMAT or GRE? It seems like the GRE is now accepted, and doing well on it would also open the door to MPA, MPP, etc. (i.e. it seems like if you do GRE this summer, you will have other options open to you)

If I attend a law school with a good MBA program, I dont see why I shouldn't at least apply.


Bumpin' Anyone? :mrgreen:

jbjb1
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby jbjb1 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:22 pm

it is not worth it.

Your income coming out won't be any higher, either, or in the long run. If you get the JD why would you need an MBA (aside from banking)? If you are getting an MBA, why would you need the JD (aside from if you really want to practice law, and in that case you shouldn't even be getting the MBA in the first place).

Don't fall into the dual MBA/JD hype. It's just a way for the schools to make money on people who are clueless.

Tofu
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby Tofu » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:26 pm

jnorsky wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:The following JD/MBAs are worth it as both schools are outstanding and friendly to UG seniors applying:

Harvard Law and Harvard Business
Stanford Law and Stanford Business

The following JD/MBAs are worth it but much harder to get into w/o work experience
Penn Law and Wharton
Northwestern Law and Kellogg

The following JD/MBAs are still pretty good, but maybe not worth a 4th year at $50,000
Chicago Law and Booth
Columbia Law and Columbia Business
NYU Law and Stern
Berkeley Law and Haas
Yale Law and Yale SOM (3-year program available)
Duke Law and Fuqua

The following JD/MBAs are probably not worth it (sorry in advance)
Michigan Law and Ross
Virginia Law and Darden
UCLA Law and Anderson
UT Law and McCombs
USC Law and Marshall
Cornell Law and Johnson
Georgetown Law and McDonough
Anything Else


That said, the common knowledge I've been hearing tends to be the following:

1) If you don't enter law immediately after graduating law school, you're going to get a very cold shoulder.
2) If you don't enter business immediately after graduating b-school, transferring is still quite possible.
3) Very few MBAs (see the top of the aforementioned list) will hold any weight in a law firm
4) The reason JDs apply to JD/MBAs after their first year is because the grass is greener, especially in this economy.
5) It's much much rarer to see MBAs apply for a JD/MBA because the grass is not greener.
6) B-school apps are more involved than law school apps, and are difficult to complete during 1L without pre-1L planning.
7) Without years of full time work experience (exceptions being HBS, Stanford GSB and Yale SOM) getting into b-school is nearly impossible. B-school apps are MUCH less numbers-based and much more leadership and work experience based.


To group NYU Stern and Duke Faqua as well as Yale's school of business in with Chicago's seems odd. And if you group those schools then Michigan (Ross) should be included as well for their MBA program and probably Virginia (Darden).


i personally think chicago's jd/mba > northwestern's jd/mba

Renzo
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby Renzo » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:30 pm

Tofu wrote:
jnorsky wrote:To group NYU Stern and Duke Faqua as well as Yale's school of business in with Chicago's seems odd. And if you group those schools then Michigan (Ross) should be included as well for their MBA program and probably Virginia (Darden).


i personally think chicago's jd/mba > northwestern's jd/mba

Fucking insufferable list-obsessed motherfuckers....

miobrien
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:44 pm

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby miobrien » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:26 pm

I'm currently a grad student at BC. I emailed law admissions yesterday asking what the procedure for the JD/MBA admissions is, and they told me to apply as a first year law student. They also told me that the GMAT is waived; the only thing that is required is my LSDAS report. Judging by what is said in this thread, however, a Boston College JD/MBA is useless and "not worth it."

There are only two reasons I can see why one would NOT do the program: more time and more money. Those are persuasive in themselves, but if I'm willing to spend the extra year and tuition, I'm not sure what the downsides are. At the least, I can acquire a basic understanding of business (which I severely lack right now as my undergraduate and graduate studies are in the polar opposite: philosophy).

When you say that the degree will have no weight in a law firm, what do you mean? I'll have more knowledge of finance and accounting. I can't see how that's a bad thing -- unless you suggest I learn these things on my own and not waste the extra year/tuition, which is reasonable. If anything, I feel a JD/MBA would personally make me a more confident, diverse professional.

Please tell me what I'm misunderstanding here!

(By the way, BC is not the only school I'm applying too. I'm also considering BU, NYU, Columbia, and Harvard.)

jbjb1
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby jbjb1 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:30 pm

miobrien wrote:I'm currently a grad student at BC. I emailed law admissions yesterday asking what the procedure for the JD/MBA admissions is, and they told me to apply as a first year law student. They also told me that the GMAT is waived; the only thing that is required is my LSDAS report. Judging by what is said in this thread, however, a Boston College JD/MBA is useless and "not worth it."

There are only two reasons I can see why one would NOT do the program: more time and more money. Those are persuasive in themselves, but if I'm willing to spend the extra year and tuition, I'm not sure what the downsides are. At the least, I can acquire a basic understanding of business (which I severely lack right now as my undergraduate and graduate studies are in the polar opposite: philosophy).

When you say that the degree will have no weight in a law firm, what do you mean? I'll have more knowledge of finance and accounting. I can't see how that's a bad thing -- unless you suggest I learn these things on my own and not waste the extra year/tuition, which is reasonable. If anything, I feel a JD/MBA would personally make me a more confident, diverse professional.

Please tell me what I'm misunderstanding here!

(By the way, BC is not the only school I'm applying too. I'm also considering BU, NYU, Columbia, and Harvard.)


JD/MBA just isn't worth the extra time and money. If you are into law, you can always take courses at the business school on the side. Over 3 years that's a lot of extra courses you could take without paying extra. If you are really stuck on doing the dual, try doing one degree at a different school nearby. JD/MBA duals just seem desperate to accumulate degrees.

NightHooded
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby NightHooded » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:36 pm

jbjb1 wrote:JD/MBA just isn't worth the extra time and money. If you are into law, you can always take courses at the business school on the side. Over 3 years that's a lot of extra courses you could take without paying extra. If you are really stuck on doing the dual, try doing one degree at a different school nearby. JD/MBA duals just seem desperate to accumulate degrees.


I can see what you mean, but STILL - if someone comes out with a Harvard or Stanford JD/MBA how can that not guarantee a job in any biz/law field? Or would it actually not open any more business doors than the law degree itself?

JOThompson
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby JOThompson » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:44 pm

I'm sure that a JD/MBA is fine preparation for many legal paths, but I hear that employers are occasionally wary of JD/MBAs. Is the job applicant interested in business or practicing law? That doubt can be a dealbreaker.

Tofu
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby Tofu » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:51 pm

Renzo wrote:
Tofu wrote:
jnorsky wrote:To group NYU Stern and Duke Faqua as well as Yale's school of business in with Chicago's seems odd. And if you group those schools then Michigan (Ross) should be included as well for their MBA program and probably Virginia (Darden).


i personally think chicago's jd/mba > northwestern's jd/mba

Fucking insufferable list-obsessed motherfuckers....


ahaha sorry sir :(

CCNP
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby CCNP » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:31 am

OP here.

Thanks everyone!

What I gather from the posts are:

1. Don't get JD/MBA unless you get into H/Stanford/maybe Booth/maybe Wharton/maybe Columbia/maybe Kellogg

2. JD/MBA does not guarantee higher income though having 2 advanced degrees sounds nice.

3. If you do go JD/MBA route, go into law first upon graduation because it is difficult to get back into law if is not right away.


Further queries:

1. However, a JD/MBA sounds very flexible to me. Let say hypothetically after 10 yrs you are tired/disillusioned/bored of law. Due to getting a MBA you can easily go into consulting/management, I think. Or, the MBA can prep you in managing fellow/lower associates and clients and running an office. And due to network at B-school, maybe you can collect some prospective clients. Is this right reasoning, or young naive thinking?

2. Qualifying number 3 above? : a very small number of JD grads go straight into "business/industry" as per schools' sites. Are these people effectively barred from law?

3. Qualifying number 1 above? : Stern/Ross/Yale/Johnson/Haas can't be be that bad?

Thx 8)
Last edited by CCNP on Fri May 21, 2010 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HITeacher2
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby HITeacher2 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:59 am

First responder here. I was kind of bummed when nobody replied after I did because I spent some time making that list... I'm glad a conversation started =) To give a bit of background, I was a JD/MBA applicant back in 2008 (got into Harvard for both, deferred 2 years to do TFA, matriculating to HBS next year) and did a considerable amount of research on MBA programs prior to and during my application process. Given that I'm personally about to make a $200k investment in this education and still have the option to back out of either degree, I do my best to make sure I'm as informed as possible. Still, I'm not a CEO or partner or anything, so feel free to take this advice with a grain of salt...

jnorsky wrote:To group NYU Stern and Duke Faqua as well as Yale's school of business in with Chicago's seems odd. And if you group those schools then Michigan (Ross) should be included as well for their MBA program and probably Virginia (Darden).


That's a fair point. I wasn't really grouping the MBAs by themselves, but rather the notion of the JD/MBA being "worth it" together. The fact is that even though Yale's SOM doesn't have the weight of Chicago, doing a Yale JD/MBA only takes 3 years while Chicago takes 4, making it easier for me to bucket them together as 'relatively worth it'. With respect to Duke and NYUs programs, you're probably right. I was really on the fence on whether to bucket them together with Chicago or in the lower bucket with Mich and Virginia. In my conversations with current MBAs and young alums, Fuqua and Stern held a little more weight than Ross and Darden, but that's highly subjective...

CCNP wrote:Further queries:

1. However, a JD/MBA sounds very flexible to me. Let say hypothetically after 10 yrs you are tired/disillusioned/bored of law. Due to getting a MBA you can easily go into consulting/management, I think. Or, the MBA can prep you in managing fellow/lower associates and clients and running an office. And due to network at B-school, maybe you can collect some prospective clients. Is this right reasoning, or young naive thinking?

2. Qualifying number 3 above? : a very small number of JD grads go straight into "business/industry" as per schools' sites. Are these people effectively barred from law?

3. Qualifying number 1 above? : Stern/Ross/Yale/Johnson/Haas can't be be that bad?

Thx 8)


I'll start with #3. You pay a price for getting the JD/MBA. Having two degrees makes you look less committed to a given career path unless you have a really good justification. Law firms are going to ask "Why MBA?" and be wary of investing their time and money into building you up just to have you jump ship to the first client that comes along. Judges are going to be a bit perplexed as well. Business firms are going to ask "Why JD?" and question the common sense and commitment of someone who decided to invest $100,000 (two years of tuition) into a legal education and not go on to use it.

If you're getting your JD/MBA from H/S, answering the "Why?" question is relative easy - the network and the educational rigor come to mind instantly. A recent study on Harvard JD/MBAs showed that they felt much more attached to and supported by the MBA network than either the JD or JD/MBA network. If you're going to Ross ... yeah, it's not "bad" (b-school is actually really fun) but you're gonna have a hard time justifying the year of your life, $50k, and whatever your first-year salary would have been ($160k if you're going that route) that you're paying for the experience.

Next is #2. They're not barred from law, but a lot of complications arise. If you're not going to work at a law firm after graduation, you have to decide whether or not to take the bar. The bar isn't a pleasant test, nor is it a cheap one (bar-prep courses are very expensive and typically paid for by the biglaw firm that hired you) - why take it if you're going to work at McKinsey? Further, you're going to have a pretty hard time answering the "Why didn't you go into law after graduating from law school" question - no matter what you say, the person interviewing you is probably thinking "Could it be because you were burned out or because no law firm would hire you?" Pretty damning stuff.

Finally, #1. This matches up my reasoning pretty closely, actually, and why I feel my own JD/MBA is going to be worth it and pay off dividends in the long run. People who bash on the JD/MBA, in my opinion, are very short-sighted about it's value. The JD/MBA isn't about your first-year salary right out of grad school, it's about your salary potential 5 and 10 years out. Having the MBA by itself isn't going to help you land the job or be a rain-maker. But if you're savvy, the fact that several years down the line all your b-school buddies are in power and leadership roles will give you a huge advantage over your peers with respect to bringing in business or jumping firms. It's just one factor, but it's a big one.

NightHooded
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby NightHooded » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:09 pm

Considering it saves one year out of two, why not do the JD and go back for an MBA if your career takes that course?

I'm assuming B-schools treat lawyer applicants like ibankers and consultants? :?:

NightHooded
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby NightHooded » Mon May 03, 2010 2:40 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:If you're getting your JD/MBA from H/S, answering the "Why?" question is relative easy - the network and the educational rigor come to mind instantly. A recent study on Harvard JD/MBAs showed that they felt much more attached to and supported by the MBA network than either the JD or JD/MBA network. If you're going to Ross ... yeah, it's not "bad" (b-school is actually really fun) but you're gonna have a hard time justifying the year of your life, $50k, and whatever your first-year salary would have been ($160k if you're going that route) that you're paying for the experience.



Hi I was reading your post. Do you think HLS and SLS Joint grads have any problems at all? I would assume that if they didn't, a ton of JDs at both schools would apply for the JT degree - but it seems quite rare.

Just wanted to get your input since you seem quite informed. I enjoy the "idea" of getting a JT degree, if only because it seems to equip you for whatever is coming down the road...

tsub
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby tsub » Mon May 03, 2010 2:43 pm

I'm actually considering the JD/MBA at Ohio State. The law program is on semesters while the MBA program is on trimesters so the finals schedules don't overlap. Also, you don't pay any extra tuition and you still finish in 3 years. It doesn't sound too bad... is there some kind of catch that I'm missing?

denial86
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Re: Is a JD/MBA worth it?

Postby denial86 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:23 am

SPAM




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