Retake 170?

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r6_philly
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Retake 170?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:01 am

I am considering trying for a 172+. I will most likely reapply next cycle. There are nothing but positives in doing so: my GPA will be 3.9+ next cycle, I will earn a MS degree and I will be doing very positive things in the extra year (teaching, fellowship, etc.).

I have a 170 now. I prepared for the test on and off for more than 6 months, but never that intensely. I didn't have the time. I feel like I performed slightly above my practice. Since Feb test was nondisclosed I can't tell what I did wrong. If I had to guess, I think I got it all right on the LG and had to skip(guess) 3 LR questions. I feel like maybe I can improve some by prepping more on the LR/RC, but I could also get unlucky and run into some hard ones and do worse. I feel like I can do better, perhaps 3 questions better, but is it worse the risk? What if I back into the 160's? LSAC repeater data says 1/3 of 170 retakes end up in the 160's...

I am perfectly happy with my current score. My late app this cycle has only netted 3 waitlists even though I should have a decent shot at T6 if applying early. I figure I will add to my softs with a MS and more good WE, but I start to feel like having a 172+ will help me greatly for HYSCC...

I will apply 9/1 or whenever the apps come out. Should I risk taking the June test? Thank you all for your inputs.

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nycsoul87
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby nycsoul87 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:26 am

If you think you can do better, I think you should absolutely retake. It gives you a much better shot at T6 if you got 172+.

I'm thinking about retaking a 170 too, although im in a different situation from you because im a sub-3.0/170 splitter.

I'm still in undergrad so I decided just to do a 5th yr to bring my gpa up to 3.0. I'm considering a retake because according to other TLS posters and LSN a 3.0/173+ gives splitters a pretty strong shot at cracking T14 if we ED to UVA, Mich or Georgetown.

However, I might decide against law school for a while if I get 700+ on the GMAT and just go do a M.S. in Accounting and work for a few years. We'll see what happens, the shitshow that is the legal profession right now is scaring me away a little bit...
Last edited by nycsoul87 on Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Zatarra
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby Zatarra » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:40 am

Short answer? Depends on your PTs!

But, if you're absolutely aiming for T6, assuming you can put in the study time, I'd really consider taking it again. Playing with the numbers and percentiles on the various calculators, putting yourself up in the 173+ territory should give you a much better shot.

You mentioned that you didn't study as hard as you could have, assuming you could do that, you might have a real shot at improving your score.

In any case, put some time in, take a few more PTs, and see where you are. At the moment, even with your GPA, your LSAT seems to make T6 a tough one to crack, so even just 2-3 points might help (judging from the calculators).

Good luck!

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actorlaw
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby actorlaw » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:42 am

no

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existenz
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby existenz » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:13 am

...
Last edited by existenz on Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MURPH
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby MURPH » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:30 am

I got 170 in Dec 2008 and retook in Sept 09 for a 175. I spent the time in between working as a tutor for about ten students. I studied my ass off. 4-6 hours per day 5-6 days per week. It was very difficult to go up and my PTs were all over the place. I got 162 on a hangover one morning and quit drinking for a while. The rest were 167 - 178 with most leaning toward the higher end. I did every PT that I could find. It was a lot of work.
I say do it. You really don't have much to lose.
BTW, Tutoring is a lot of work but fun and a good way to meet people with similar interests. Give it a try; it will help you as much as the student, if you have the time.
Also your profile says you are an ethnic minority. If you are a URM and you have a 4.0 and 170, I have to wonder what is going on. Are you sure about your LORs? Did you write a 'risky' PS?

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englawyer
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby englawyer » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:24 am

what was your score breakdown by section? if you got 3-4 wrong on LG, retake would be the way to go. i would probably retake anyway, but if you have room to improve LG it is obvious

ppa840
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby ppa840 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:53 am

depends on how you were doing on your practice exams.

If you are doing 175+ avg. on practice exams, then you should definitely retake.

Good luck

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Ragged
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby Ragged » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:06 am

Yea in the same boat. 170 (sept 09) thinking about retaking. I've already decided that if I don't get at least Columbia this cycle I'm retaking in June or September. If I do get CLS (cuz lets be honest I'm out of HLS and SLS) then CLS it is.

170 was about at my PT average, but I think if I study hard for another month or so I might be able to bring it up. Also if do poorely in June I will probably have a third go in September.

How bad will it look if I have, say, 170/cancel/168? My GPA should be in the mid to upper 3.8X by next cycle... Will I still have a shot at MVPD? Also after being accepted to Duke this cycle, will that make them mad at me if I withdraw now and reapply next cycle?


I think you should go for it if you get dinged at T5. If you get T5 then you should run with it.

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theadw
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby theadw » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:23 am

Like Murph, I retook a 170 for a 175. If you can afford the $1xx, register for June, study, and if your PT scores aren't consistently higher than they were leading up to the 170, cancel.

Also like Murph, I tutored, and second his recommendation.

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Ragged
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby Ragged » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:27 am

MURPH wrote: Also your profile says you are an ethnic minority. If you are a URM and you have a 4.0 and 170, I have to wonder what is going on. Are you sure about your LORs? Did you write a 'risky' PS?


I think he is an ORM.

r6_philly
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:50 am

Thank you for all the suggestions. I appreciate the input and everyone's experiences are what I wanted to hear.

I am a ORM (my son is a URM so I think he would have a easier time :lol: ). I am 30+ with a lot of unique softs and good WE. Whether or not I can use them to get into T5 I am not sure, and I don't know if anyone can be sure. I thouhgt having a higher score will definitely help strengthen my case.

I don't have the section breakdown since I took the Feb test. If I had to guess I got a -1/-0 on LG and -6 or more on LR. I didnn't understand one RC passage although I think I got most of the questions for that passage correct. I can definitely study harder and I know I can do better. I should have at least 1 month of free itme before June test and another month before sept. to study. My practice before the 170 varied quite a bit probably because I didn't have as much time to study as I should have. It ranged from mid 160's to mid 170's.

Anyone scored less on a second take? Is it a negative to T5? I am also wondering about being accepted, withdraw, then reapply. If I get in N this year I still almost want a fair shot at the rest by applying early. But would they frawn upon withdrawing then reapplying? Although I am fairly sure I will get waitlisted by the rest this year so maybe that is a non-issue.

lawschoollll
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:02 pm

r6_philly wrote:Thank you for all the suggestions. I appreciate the input and everyone's experiences are what I wanted to hear.

I am a ORM (my son is a URM so I think he would have a easier time :lol: ). I am 30+ with a lot of unique softs and good WE. Whether or not I can use them to get into T5 I am not sure, and I don't know if anyone can be sure. I thouhgt having a higher score will definitely help strengthen my case.

I don't have the section breakdown since I took the Feb test. If I had to guess I got a -1/-0 on LG and -6 or more on LR. I didnn't understand one RC passage although I think I got most of the questions for that passage correct. I can definitely study harder and I know I can do better. I should have at least 1 month of free itme before June test and another month before sept. to study. My practice before the 170 varied quite a bit probably because I didn't have as much time to study as I should have. It ranged from mid 160's to mid 170's.

Anyone scored less on a second take? Is it a negative to T5? I am also wondering about being accepted, withdraw, then reapply. If I get in N this year I still almost want a fair shot at the rest by applying early. But would they frawn upon withdrawing then reapplying? Although I am fairly sure I will get waitlisted by the rest this year so maybe that is a non-issue.


Have the same predicament/question. Anyone had any experience with applying, withdrawing before decision (or after acceptance), and then reapplying next year?

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MURPH
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby MURPH » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:44 am

I can't see why they would frawn upon it. You are making their job easier this year and if you have a better score then next year they will be more pleased with your app.

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:47 am

if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+

lawyering
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby lawyering » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:54 am

bloodonthetracks wrote:if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+


+1 - I did. And I was seriously considering re-taking my princeton review class and re-taking the LSAT when i got my 170--my practice tests averaged around 175.

I would say, if it's not torture to re-take the lsat, you can probably improve your score. But you should be able to get in with your current stats and an amazing personal statement. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste another 3 months of my life on the re-take EVEN if it meant missing out on scholarship $$.

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englawyer
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby englawyer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:58 am

lawyering wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+


+1 - I did. And I was seriously considering re-taking my princeton review class and re-taking the LSAT when i got my 170--my practice tests averaged around 175.

I would say, if it's not torture to re-take the lsat, you can probably improve your score. But you should be able to get in with your current stats and an amazing personal statement. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste another 3 months of my life on the re-take EVEN if it meant missing out on scholarship $$.


the chance is pretty low though. lawyering, you must have had an outstanding app, but for the "average joe" applicants out there 170/3.9 probably won't cut it

r6_philly
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:55 am

lawyering wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+


+1 - I did. And I was seriously considering re-taking my princeton review class and re-taking the LSAT when i got my 170--my practice tests averaged around 175.

I would say, if it's not torture to re-take the lsat, you can probably improve your score. But you should be able to get in with your current stats and an amazing personal statement. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste another 3 months of my life on the re-take EVEN if it meant missing out on scholarship $$.


Thanks guys for the encouragement. I do have a large amount of softs to distinguish myself from other applicants. Coming from an extremely disadvantaged background and being 30+ gives me a lot to write about. I have earned respect, even admiration from every one of my UG professors after they learned about me, one of them took me out for dinner after I scored the 170 (who wrote an LOR without me asking). If I can't say the rest of my application is extremely strong, I can say that it is not lacking.

If I could, I rather not take the test again. But hanging out on TLS makes me wonder about my chances because of all the higher scorers around :) It is nice to hear others with similar numbers have success. I know I started too late on this cycle, I hope I can have better results if I apply earlier.

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:15 pm

englawyer wrote:
lawyering wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+


+1 - I did. And I was seriously considering re-taking my princeton review class and re-taking the LSAT when i got my 170--my practice tests averaged around 175.

I would say, if it's not torture to re-take the lsat, you can probably improve your score. But you should be able to get in with your current stats and an amazing personal statement. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste another 3 months of my life on the re-take EVEN if it meant missing out on scholarship $$.


the chance is pretty low though. lawyering, you must have had an outstanding app, but for the "average joe" applicants out there 170/3.9 probably won't cut it


i got into CLS with a 170/3.9 (after a retake from low-160's). still waiting on rest of T6. i have above-average softs, but nothing too incredible. i think the personal statement is key; people undervalue it.

lawyering
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby lawyering » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:24 pm

r6_philly wrote:
lawyering wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:if the rest of your application is solid, you can get into harvard, stanford, and columbia with a 170/3.9+


+1 - I did. And I was seriously considering re-taking my princeton review class and re-taking the LSAT when i got my 170--my practice tests averaged around 175.

I would say, if it's not torture to re-take the lsat, you can probably improve your score. But you should be able to get in with your current stats and an amazing personal statement. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste another 3 months of my life on the re-take EVEN if it meant missing out on scholarship $$.


Thanks guys for the encouragement. I do have a large amount of softs to distinguish myself from other applicants. Coming from an extremely disadvantaged background and being 30+ gives me a lot to write about. I have earned respect, even admiration from every one of my UG professors after they learned about me, one of them took me out for dinner after I scored the 170 (who wrote an LOR without me asking). If I can't say the rest of my application is extremely strong, I can say that it is not lacking.

If I could, I rather not take the test again. But hanging out on TLS makes me wonder about my chances because of all the higher scorers around :) It is nice to hear others with similar numbers have success. I know I started too late on this cycle, I hope I can have better results if I apply earlier.


r6_philly, i think you'll be fine with your stats. and, don't discount your cycle this year yet!! you have a lot of amazing schools yet to hear from. :) i'll be rooting for you!

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dp73816
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby dp73816 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:44 pm

your fine man - your 30+...I wouldnt take another year off for a few points; you have many T10's in the bag, w/ maybe only HYS being iffy, and that's being pessimistic. I think its safe to say that you should just go ahead and take the plunge.

r6_philly
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Re: Retake 170?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:48 pm

Peter North wrote:Philly is ...

Good luck!


Thank you so much! It was wonderful to read that. I don't know if I would guarantee a leap in score, so perhaps I should run with my 170. I would love to prove to myself by scoring a 180, I do enjoy challenges, but maybe this isn't the time and place.

I am no longer a foreigner, I was proudly naturalized as a citizen, maybe not a huge deal to some, but a great achievement for myself.

Thank you all again, I appreciate all the advice, I will let you know how it goes!




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