can i really turn down a free ride?

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samiam123
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can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby samiam123 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:29 am

st. johns full scholarship, so far the only school i've heard back from (sent in apps beginning of february). im not sure what future acceptance i may get but in this job market i feel like you gotta bust your butt no matter what school you go to to get a decent big law job and school ranking may not matter as much anymore, so can i really turn down their offer??

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Havaianas
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Havaianas » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:35 am

samiam123 wrote:st. johns full scholarship, so far the only school i've heard back from (sent in apps beginning of february). im not sure what future acceptance i may get but in this job market i feel like you gotta bust your butt no matter what school you go to to get a decent big law job and school ranking may not matter as much anymore, so can i really turn down their offer??


Yes. Especially because that's probably a top1/3 or gpa requirement no? But I know how you feel full rides are awfully appealing.

samiam123
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby samiam123 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:36 am

its actually top 50%, ahh the temptation....

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Kiersten1985
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:37 am

samiam123 wrote:st. johns full scholarship, so far the only school i've heard back from (sent in apps beginning of february). im not sure what future acceptance i may get but in this job market i feel like you gotta bust your butt no matter what school you go to to get a decent big law job and school ranking may not matter as much anymore, so can i really turn down their offer??


Yes, you'll have to work really hard anywhere you go but at a higher ranked school, you have to hope you're in the top 1/3 of the class as opposed to hoping you end up in the top 5% (or better) at a lower ranked school.

But +1 on the temptation, it's definitely there. One other thing to mention - lower ranked schools are not as portable, so with St. Johns, you better have no qualms about practicing in NY/NJ area for the rest of your life.

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beach_terror
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:40 am

The only full ride I got was Widener, so yeah I can turn it down. It was actually a bet between my GF and I, and I won a free dinner out of it :). Worth the 12$ LSAC fee, even if it was just a joke. St. Johns is a slightly different story though.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby BigFatPanda » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:40 am

If you're going to be a patent attorney, then it doesn't really matter where u go to law school. Take the full ride if other "high ranked" school either rejects u or forcing you to pay sticker without a shred of scholarship.

Plus, the fact that u got a full ride means you're probably a top notch student anywhere u go. Might as well go to St. John for free your 1L and transfer to NYU/Columbia for 2L.

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underachiever
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby underachiever » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:45 am

OP you could, but if you want to practice in the NY/NJ metro I would not turn it down unless Fordham gave you $$$ or you get into Columbia/NYU).....Full price ITE is really only a t6, maybe T14 thing. Money to a good school like St. johns is no joke and a top 50% requirement isn't bad at all.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:48 am

underachiever wrote:OP you could, but if you want to practice in the NY/NJ metro I would not turn it down unless Fordham gave you $$$ or you get into Columbia/NYU).....Full price ITE is really only a t6, maybe T14 thing. Money to a good school like St. johns is no joke and a top 50% requirement isn't bad at all.


OP, what happens if you fall outside the top 50%? Do the strip the entire scholarship?

I know Tulane requires 3.0, but if you don't make that, they only take away half of the scholarship and will reinstate the entire scholarship for your third year if you bring your GPA up.

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Havaianas
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Havaianas » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:51 am

Wow - you guys are totally making me think more seriously about my offers. Yeah the top 50% requirement isn't half bad.

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chadwick218
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:54 am

Absolutely. I turned down 5 or so rides to attend a T10 at sticker.

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Kohinoor
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:06 am

THAT'S. WHAT. SHE. SAID.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:07 am

BigFatPanda wrote:If you're going to be a patent attorney, then it doesn't really matter where u go to law school. Take the full ride if other "high ranked" school either rejects u or forcing you to pay sticker without a shred of scholarship.

Plus, the fact that u got a full ride means you're probably a top notch student anywhere u go. Might as well go to St. John for free your 1L and transfer to NYU/Columbia for 2L.


First, it DOES matter where you go to school unless you want to be some ambulance chaser. If you want to be a lucrative patent attorney, you'll practice in Big Law and that's when it's definitely important where you go to school. I'm not sure where you think patent attorneys practice or why it wouldn't matter what school you went to.

Full ride at St. Johns DOES NOT guarantee doing well in law school. Law school is so much different from college and there are a million different factors that go into doing well your 1L. You should never ever go to a school with the intent to transfer. If you sign up for St. John's, plan on graduating from St. Johns. Yes, people do transfer, but it's way too risky to plan on doing so.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:10 am

Kohinoor wrote:THAT'S. WHAT. SHE. SAID.


SO CREDITED

lordr6747
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby lordr6747 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:24 am

what were your numbers?

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newyorker88
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby newyorker88 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:41 am

samiam123 wrote:st. johns full scholarship, so far the only school i've heard back from (sent in apps beginning of february). im not sure what future acceptance i may get but in this job market i feel like you gotta bust your butt no matter what school you go to to get a decent big law job and school ranking may not matter as much anymore, so can i really turn down their offer??


I got a full ride too, no specific requirements though just good academic standing. And you know it doesn't include housing which is gonna be about 20k a year in queens.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby BigFatPanda » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:44 am

Kiersten1985 wrote:First, it DOES matter where you go to school unless you want to be some ambulance chaser. If you want to be a lucrative patent attorney, you'll practice in Big Law and that's when it's definitely important where you go to school. I'm not sure where you think patent attorneys practice or why it wouldn't matter what school you went to.

Full ride at St. Johns DOES NOT guarantee doing well in law school. Law school is so much different from college and there are a million different factors that go into doing well your 1L. You should never ever go to a school with the intent to transfer. If you sign up for St. John's, plan on graduating from St. Johns. Yes, people do transfer, but it's way too risky to plan on doing so.


First, if you search some of the top IP firms (BigLaw), a lot of them do not have NYU/Berkeley on their resume.

See http://www.kimchang.com/,
http://www.cooperdunham.com/professionals,
http://www.bskb.com/BiosList.aspx?l=&o=&p=,
--LinkRemoved--

The list goes on and on.

Second, i agree Full Ride to St. Johns does not guarantee transfer. However, i never implied OP had a 100% chance of transfer. I said "You're probably a top notch student anywhere u go". In term of probability (risk-benefit), , i am willing to bet OP will be top 10% at St. John. Thus, full ride to St. John 1L is a good deal.

Third, "ambulance chaser" is a honorable profession. Especially in New York.

I'm not sure where you think patent attorneys practice or why it wouldn't matter what school you went to.


From Ken himself. See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=316.

There is a shortage of patent lawyers, in large part because so few engineers and scientists are attracted to law. Thus, the few that do focus upon IP law have many job offers that come their way. Because of the supply/demand issues, patent lawyers are the very rare attorneys who can make a lot of $$ while not working slavish hours. The ad for $150K for 1600 billable hours is quite common for patent attorneys.


Its analogous to URM in Law school admission, when they are just too few URMs and those few have very unqiue traits in high demand, who cares if they score below 160. Similarly, because patent attorney are so rare that a law firm would take someone from Berkeley just as much as someone from St. John.

samiam123
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby samiam123 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:40 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
underachiever wrote:OP you could, but if you want to practice in the NY/NJ metro I would not turn it down unless Fordham gave you $$$ or you get into Columbia/NYU).....Full price ITE is really only a t6, maybe T14 thing. Money to a good school like St. johns is no joke and a top 50% requirement isn't bad at all.


OP, what happens if you fall outside the top 50%? Do the strip the entire scholarship?

I know Tulane requires 3.0, but if you don't make that, they only take away half of the scholarship and will reinstate the entire scholarship for your third year if you bring your GPA up.


so i hear that even if you lose it lets say first year, you get it reinstated (2nd or 3rd year) if you work your way back up

samiam123
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby samiam123 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:41 pm

Kohinoor wrote:THAT'S. WHAT. SHE. SAID.


WOW!!! i didnt think it would take that long for s1 to say it! thanks tho!!

reverendt
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby reverendt » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:47 pm

Generally I'm leery about basing a decision on conditional scholarships. It's very hard to predict one's law school performance.
BUT top 50% is pretty generous....

09042014
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:34 pm

BigFatPanda wrote:
Its analogous to URM in Law school admission, when they are just too few URMs and those few have very unqiue traits in high demand, who cares if they score below 160. Similarly, because patent attorney are so rare that a law firm would take someone from Berkeley just as much as someone from St. John.


The economy has hurt IP too. Go to intelpropserver and they are kind of bleak.

Prestige isn't as important in patent law as it is in other types of law, but it still is important.

If he does well at Saint John's he'll be able to find a job. But a Boalt grad will beat him for the job every single time.

What kind of engineering degree does the OP have. That may screw him worse than his JD degree.

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thedogship
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby thedogship » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:43 pm

BigFatPanda wrote:i am willing to bet OP will be top 10% at St. John.



That is such a terrible bet.

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beach_terror
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:38 pm

BigFatPanda wrote: In term of probability (risk-benefit), , i am willing to bet OP will be top 10% at St. John.



I'll bet you the cost of tuition at our respective schools that you're probably wrong. If you said top 50% then maybe... but saying someone will finish top 10%, someone that you don't even know, is beyond moronic.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby BigFatPanda » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 pm

beach_terror wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote: In term of probability (risk-benefit), , i am willing to bet OP will be top 10% at St. John.



I'll bet you the cost of tuition at our respective schools that you're probably wrong. If you said top 50% then maybe... but saying someone will finish top 10%, someone that you don't even know, is beyond moronic.


I really doubt you know much about Probabilities and Random Process so i don't expect you to understand.

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beach_terror
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:42 pm

I'm not going to hijack this thread, but if you had some statistics on how well people do with 75-100% tuition scholarships in terms of class rank, then I'd love to see the data. Since you don't, you're just blowing hot air. You have no backing for your claim, and nobody can ever say with certainty that they'll finish in the top 10%.

dynomite
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Re: can i really turn down a free ride?

Postby dynomite » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:44 pm

Kiersten1985 wrote:One other thing to mention - lower ranked schools are not as portable, so with St. Johns, you better have no qualms about practicing in NY/NJ area for the rest of your life.


This is silly. Jeez -- sometimes you get the sense on Top-Law-Schools that unless you got to one of the Top 20 schools in the country you might as well give up on your career, move to Aruba and get your bartender's license. (Although that might not be such a bad idea generally...)

To bring some sanity to this thread, here are some notable St. John's alumni:

Mario Cuomo, former Governor of New York
Charles Rangel, current U.S. Congressman from New York
Harvey Pitt, former Chairman of the SEC
George Deukmejian, former Governor of California
William Casey, former Director of the CIA

Will it be as easy to go into BigLaw, Congress or other high-powered jobs from St. John's as it would be from, say, Harvard? Probably not. But it's certainly possible.




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