Transfering Schools and Splitting GPA Forum

[Feigngrav3]

Thanks for the replies.
I actually come from a wealthy family so money is not an issue and my father is a CPA who owns his own firm. I have over two years experience working at his accounting firm. Also, I have experience working at a software company and oil company which are both owned by my father. Of course I'm not going to put that my father owns the two companies but will have the respective CEO's as the references. I have always tested well and was smart but was very immature and unmotivated. That changed over the last two years so I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

[Feigngrav3]

Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Law school numbers is reliable (also probably the only 'real' information that we have). Conventional wisdom is score as high as you can and then worry about your chances. Yes there are chances to crack the t14 but the 3.2 will hinder the further you go up and money will not be as open.

also you can play around with mylsn.info to look at how people have done in previous cycles.

Another important question is are you a URM (African American, Mexian American or Native American)? This would greatly increase your chances.

Yea I'm the wrong kind of Indian haha

[Ramius]

Thanks for the replies.
I actually come from a wealthy family so money is not an issue and my father is a CPA who owns his own firm. I have over two years experience working at his accounting firm. Also, I have experience working at a software company and oil company which are both owned by my father. Of course I'm not going to put that my father owns the two companies but will have the respective CEO's as the references. I have always tested well and was smart but was very immature and unmotivated. That changed over the last two years so I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

Good luck with that

[Nova]

I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOL

[WhatOurBodiesAreFor]

Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Law school numbers is reliable (also probably the only 'real' information that we have). Conventional wisdom is score as high as you can and then worry about your chances. Yes there are chances to crack the t14 but the 3.2 will hinder the further you go up and money will not be as open.

also you can play around with mylsn.info to look at how people have done in previous cycles.

Another important question is are you a URM (African American, Mexian American or Native American)? This would greatly increase your chances.

Yea I'm the wrong kind of Indian haha

I'll chime in here and regurgitate some more TLS wisdom.

- Is there any chance you could hang around your UG? Perhaps by picking up another major or two? 3.2 will be below anyone's 25, but if you get up to say 3.5/3.6, you will find yourself in a much better position. CCN's 25s are in that range.

- As another poster said, polish your apps and start building softs. If you are not straddling any of the numbers, like if you are .3 below their GPA25 and 2 above their LSAT75, the non-numbers portion of your app will play a significantly greater role.

- PT'ing 170-175 doesn't mean anything. Only the real thing counts. (The only 16X's I ever received during my last year of prep were on the real thing. Everything else was 170-180). Your score might not drop at all on test day. My point here is to stress that you should not plan to nail the LSAT in say June and get all of your apps in on 9/1. Make sure an LSAT slip-up won't put you back a year.

- Oh and no one besides Yale and probably Stanford and Berkeley (all of which you won't be competitive for anyway) care about multiple LSAT scores.

- Splitter cycles are more unpredictable but LSN can still very accurately gauge your chances.

- Lastly, and probably most importantly, if you think you will be in the top 5% of your class, you are overestimating your potential and underestimating ours. It is very difficult to predict how well you will do in law school. You can probably ensure median provided you work hard enough, but promising yourself that you'd even be top 20% would be foolish, particularly if you are attending the highest-ranked school you get into.

[doing_it_in_a_car]

From one 0L to another, based on recent cycles I predict:

170+ for Georgetown.
171+ with ED should give you a decent shot at Penn. 173 without ED for an outside chance.
174+ and good softs should get you NYU and give you an outside chance at Columbia.


I think softs (work experience in particular) may make a non-trivial difference in your situation.
I don't think any LSAT score will get you better than a coin flip anywhere, and you probably won't see money anywhere (though it seems you won't need it).

Good luck!

[Crowing]

CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

[Cobretti]

CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

With his WE if he can hit 171 he's in at NU no problem. If he can hit 175+ he has a serious shot at NYU.

http://myLSN.info/o3nnmi

[Crowing]

CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

With his WE if he can hit 171 he's in at NU no problem. If he can hit 175+ he has a serious shot at NYU.

http://myLSN.info/o3nnmi

Huh, I didn't realize NYU had such a soft floor. I guess it can't be ruled out then, provided he scores 175+, which is still a pretty big.

[20141023]

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[Feigngrav3]

When i said that i dont expect to score outside of 5%. I wasnt trying to be an ass. i always going into class rank thinking someone has to be in the top 5% so why not me and i know very well that 5% is very unlikely and very very difficult but if you dont expect to do well you probably will not.

[stillwater]

When i said that i dont expect to score outside of 5%. I wasnt trying to be an ass. i always going into class rank thinking someone has to be in the top 5% so why not me and i know very well that 5% is very unlikely and very very difficult but if you dont expect to do well you probably will not.

top 5% happens to the most unlikely stooges

[Feigngrav3]

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

[stillwater]

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

those are average softs

strong softs include: olympic gold medal, rhodes scholar, cure for cancer, etc.

[buddyt]

I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOLOL. I'm dying right now.

[stillwater]

I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOLOL. I'm dying right now.

what he expects and what will occur are two different things.

[WhatOurBodiesAreFor]

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

If you an established professional and are clearly an asset to your firm, these can be above average softs and appealing for the non-T6. But just having these softs and nothing more (read: I got these positions via dad and my LORs are mediocre), you will just be another candidate. Crucially, as a splitter, you do not want to be just another candidate. So, if this is the case, it may hurt you.

Killer softs are things like URM, military, Rhodes, olympic medal, ridiculous feat X, or from wealth, fame, or prestige. Great softs are things like Research Fulbright, PhDs, overcoming significant adversity.

But it really comes down to the overall picture you paint of yourself. Therefore, to attribute some sort of value to each individual soft would be a mistake in most cases. (Exceptions being: in the case for someone clearly headed for academia, having Ivy League degrees, publications, etc. - the more of these types of things he has the better suited he'll be. Same goes for someone interested in business. MBAs, quality WE, and connections will each be accounted for).

But a large percentage of us won't come to law school with our path already laid out for us and we won't have the killer softs mentioned above. Therefore, the most important thing we can do in our application is not to highlight some kind-of-cool internship/WE we have but to paint a positive picture of ourself. Traits like motivation, good-heartedness, and curiosity come to mind. We should also show maturity and that we are bound to succeed.

All of this is not to say that your experience isn't valuable. It's just that there is a good possibility that someone, for example, with identical numbers but has spent the past year teaching in Japan will look more appealing to law schools if only because the picture he paints of himself is more appealing in some abstract, intangible way.

I am a 0L and this is just my take on the issue. But I do feel confident that there is a lot of truth to this. I have been outperforming my numbers a bit this cycle. Because my softs are only decent by any tangible measure, I attribute this to my more non-traditional background and the positive and mature narrative I created of myself in my application.

[20141023]

.

[ManOfTheMinute]

If you an established professional and are clearly an asset to your firm, these can be above average softs and appealing for the non-T6. But just having these softs and nothing more (read: I got these positions via dad and my LORs are mediocre), you will just be another candidate. Crucially, as a splitter, you do not want to be just another candidate. So, if this is the case, it may hurt you.

Killer softs are things like URM, military, Rhodes, olympic medal, ridiculous feat X, or from wealth, fame, or prestige. Great softs are things like Research Fulbright, PhDs, overcoming significant adversity.

But it really comes down to the overall picture you paint of yourself. Therefore, to attribute some sort of value to each individual soft would be a mistake in most cases. (Exceptions being: in the case for someone clearly headed for academia, having Ivy League degrees, publications, etc. - the more of these types of things he has the better suited he'll be. Same goes for someone interested in business. MBAs, quality WE, and connections will each be accounted for).

But a large percentage of us won't come to law school with our path already laid out for us and we won't have the killer softs mentioned above. Therefore, the most important thing we can do in our application is not to highlight some kind-of-cool internship/WE we have but to paint a positive picture of ourself. Traits like motivation, good-heartedness, and curiosity come to mind. We should also show maturity and that we are bound to succeed.

All of this is not to say that your experience isn't valuable. It's just that there is a good possibility that someone, for example, with identical numbers but has spent the past year teaching in Japan will look more appealing to law schools if only because the picture he paints of himself is more appealing in some abstract, intangible way.

I am a 0L and this is just my take on the issue. But I do feel confident that there is a lot of truth to this. I have been outperforming my numbers a bit this cycle. Because my softs are only decent by any tangible measure, I attribute this to my more non-traditional background and the positive and mature narrative I created of myself in my application.

OP should state in his PS that he will most likely be in the top 5% of his class if admitted just to demonstrate how motivated he is to the adcomms.

TITCR

[LRGhost]

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

Why don't you stick with JPM? It's going to cost you less than LS and if you do well, you can work there a couple years and get an MBA if you want.

FWIW, if you score well on your LSAT, you're competitive at MVP. But I'd be wary going in to school thinking you'll instantly be top third and get big law. Obviously be confident but be cautious. If you graduate with no debt and get big law, congratulations, you win. You can honestly turn a high pressure job into something tolerable that gives you good money.

[longlivetheking]

I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

I too, do not expect to be outside the top 99% of my class at law school.

[soontobelawschooler]

If you an established professional and are clearly an asset to your firm, these can be above average softs and appealing for the non-T6. But just having these softs and nothing more (read: I got these positions via dad and my LORs are mediocre), you will just be another candidate. Crucially, as a splitter, you do not want to be just another candidate. So, if this is the case, it may hurt you.

Killer softs are things like URM, military, Rhodes, olympic medal, ridiculous feat X, or from wealth, fame, or prestige. Great softs are things like Research Fulbright, PhDs, overcoming significant adversity.

But it really comes down to the overall picture you paint of yourself. Therefore, to attribute some sort of value to each individual soft would be a mistake in most cases. (Exceptions being: in the case for someone clearly headed for academia, having Ivy League degrees, publications, etc. - the more of these types of things he has the better suited he'll be. Same goes for someone interested in business. MBAs, quality WE, and connections will each be accounted for).

But a large percentage of us won't come to law school with our path already laid out for us and we won't have the killer softs mentioned above. Therefore, the most important thing we can do in our application is not to highlight some kind-of-cool internship/WE we have but to paint a positive picture of ourself. Traits like motivation, good-heartedness, and curiosity come to mind. We should also show maturity and that we are bound to succeed.

All of this is not to say that your experience isn't valuable. It's just that there is a good possibility that someone, for example, with identical numbers but has spent the past year teaching in Japan will look more appealing to law schools if only because the picture he paints of himself is more appealing in some abstract, intangible way.

I am a 0L and this is just my take on the issue. But I do feel confident that there is a lot of truth to this. I have been outperforming my numbers a bit this cycle. Because my softs are only decent by any tangible measure, I attribute this to my more non-traditional background and the positive and mature narrative I created of myself in my application.

OP should state in his PS that he will most likely be in the top 5% of his class if admitted just to demonstrate how motivated he is to the adcomms.

TITCR

1+ write in PS

[longlivetheking]

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

Why don't you stick with JPM? It's going to cost you less than LS and if you do well, you can work there a couple years and get an MBA if you want.

FWIW, if you score well on your LSAT, you're competitive at MVP. But I'd be wary going in to school thinking you'll instantly be top third and get big law. Obviously be confident but be cautious. If you graduate with no debt and get big law, congratulations, you win. You can honestly turn a high pressure job into something tolerable that gives you good money.

obviously this guy ain't FoF/IBD/S&T/Front office in JPM.