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Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
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miamiheat
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,,

Postby miamiheat » Mon May 07, 2012 9:01 pm

,,
Last edited by miamiheat on Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby Tom Joad » Mon May 07, 2012 9:06 pm

Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?

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PARTY
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby PARTY » Mon May 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?


says the FDR 'tar.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:09 pm

Don't take out $210k for law school.

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Tom Joad
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby Tom Joad » Mon May 07, 2012 9:10 pm

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

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goldeneye
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby goldeneye » Mon May 07, 2012 9:10 pm

In what world are you assuming debt will just disappear after 20 years?

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sunynp
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby sunynp » Mon May 07, 2012 9:12 pm

miamiheat wrote:I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.


I think most people hope to get biglaw and live very frugally for a few years to pay off their loans. Most people are not expecting to pay $4,000 in rent as a first year biglaw associate, they may live in Brooklyn and save money.

If you don't get biglaw or another high salary, then you may have to go to on IBR. I haven't seen anyone planning to IBR on a biglaw salary, so I am not sure how that would work. I doubt that you calculated it correctly. I have heard that IBR is difficult, but I don't know.

At the end of 20 years you can get discharged and owe the taxes on the amount that was forgiven.

edit: I realize I may have been trolled.
Last edited by sunynp on Mon May 07, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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man_utd_4l
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby man_utd_4l » Mon May 07, 2012 9:13 pm

miamiheat wrote:
rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)


Avoiding this might be a good start...
Last edited by man_utd_4l on Mon May 07, 2012 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Kikero
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby Kikero » Mon May 07, 2012 9:13 pm

This (--LinkRemoved--) says that if you make greater than 150% of the poverty level, you can be required to pay up to 15% (changed to 10% by Obama's proposal) of what you make above the poverty level, this would be a lot more than 5k/year.

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miamiheat
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby miamiheat » Mon May 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?


why not plan on paying back the least amount possible if you can? also is there any way to form a company in your name take out loans to the tune of that 210k amount and discharge them like a private equity firm does (the way romney made his money- which i think as shady as it is I'd do it too)?

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goldeneye
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby goldeneye » Mon May 07, 2012 9:14 pm

miamiheat wrote: and food and other essentials (20k).....


I also would look at not getting bottle service every night...
Last edited by goldeneye on Mon May 07, 2012 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shmoo597
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby shmoo597 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 pm

miamiheat wrote:
By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....


Theres a ton wrong with your post, but lets start here. Firstly, taxes will be more like 65k in NYC. Your take home pay will be around 95-100k. Secondly, anyone paying 4k a month for rent with 210k in loans is full retard. Thirdly, because staffords are no longer subsidized, you will be accruing interest all through law school. Your 210k will be more like 240k when you start working. Fourthly, no idea where you're getting your numbers from, but under no plan will you only be required to pay 5k a year towards loans on a 160k salary.

Bottom line: it is borderline insanity to go to law school today at a full sticker price, even HYS, let alone the t14, let ALONE anything beyond that.

09042014
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:18 pm

miamiheat wrote:I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.


Discretionary income doesn't mean after rent/food/tax/ essentials. It means your Income less 150% of poverty income rate. So instead of the 54K you are talking about it's 143K. Or 14.3/ year.
Last edited by 09042014 on Mon May 07, 2012 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby rayiner » Mon May 07, 2012 9:19 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.


There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

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sunynp
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby sunynp » Mon May 07, 2012 9:21 pm

Paul Campos posted this link to Georgetown's calculator of loan payments today. Perhaps you might find it useful.

--LinkRemoved--

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Tom Joad
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby Tom Joad » Mon May 07, 2012 9:21 pm

rayiner wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.


There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.

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miamiheat
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby miamiheat » Mon May 07, 2012 9:24 pm

alright thanks for letting me know that...my suppositions are deteriorating...but thanks to everyone for their input so I can understand this stuff better


Desert Fox wrote:
miamiheat wrote:I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.


Discretionary income doesn't mean after rent/food/tax/ essentials. It means your Income less 150% of poverty income rate. So instead of the 54K you are talking about it's 143K. Or 14.3/ year.

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rayiner
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby rayiner » Mon May 07, 2012 9:26 pm

shmoo597 wrote:
miamiheat wrote:
By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....


Theres a ton wrong with your post, but lets start here. Firstly, taxes will be more like 65k in NYC. Your take home pay will be around 95-100k. Secondly, anyone paying 4k a month for rent with 210k in loans is full retard. Thirdly, because staffords are no longer subsidized, you will be accruing interest all through law school. Your 210k will be more like 240k when you start working. Fourthly, no idea where you're getting your numbers from, but under no plan will you only be required to pay 5k a year towards loans on a 160k salary.

Bottom line: it is borderline insanity to go to law school today at a full sticker price, even HYS, let alone the t14, let ALONE anything beyond that.


It really isn't if you can do math. Weighted for risk, law school (a T14) pays for itself in just a few years of big law, and everything after that you're coming out ahead.
Last edited by rayiner on Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby rayiner » Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.


There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.


If it wasn't intended for them, they wouldn't be eligible for it.

kaiser
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby kaiser » Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 pm

man_utd_4l wrote:
miamiheat wrote:
rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)


Avoiding this might be a good start...


Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely

09042014
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:30 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.


There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.


If you are paying IBR on big law salary you'll basically pay it all back before 20 years.

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PARTY
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby PARTY » Mon May 07, 2012 9:30 pm

kaiser wrote:
man_utd_4l wrote:
miamiheat wrote:
rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)


Avoiding this might be a good start...


Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely


be real here, miamiheat is not tryna live like a plebeian.

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goldeneye
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby goldeneye » Mon May 07, 2012 9:33 pm

PARTY wrote:
kaiser wrote:
man_utd_4l wrote:
miamiheat wrote:
rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)


Avoiding this might be a good start...


Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely


be real here, miamiheat is not tryna live like a plebeian.


He'll probably try to find 2 other superstar attorneys and live with them.

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miamiheat
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby miamiheat » Mon May 07, 2012 9:38 pm

Actually I just looked this up on wiki hope thats accurate... so i think I was correct originally...and yes I plan on living comfortably as opposed to frugally...why not?

"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:
Discretionary income = Gross income - taxes - necessities"

shoeshine
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Re: NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPAY 210K IN LOANS? HELP

Postby shoeshine » Mon May 07, 2012 9:41 pm

miamiheat wrote:Actually I just looked this up on wiki hope thats accurate... so i think I was correct originally...and yes I plan on living comfortably as opposed to frugally...why not?

"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:
Discretionary income = Gross income - taxes - necessities"


Bro you will not be eligible for IBR while in biglaw. No matter what.

Use this if you don't believe me. http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/IBRCalc.jsp




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