URM 2013-2014 Cycle Thread Forum

[twenty]

Is anyone else having reservations about applying to UPenn? Almost every URM applicant on LSN with around our numbers (162-172/ 3.7-3.9) has been waitlisted.

[NanaP]

Is anyone else having reservations about applying to UPenn? Almost every URM applicant on LSN with around our numbers (162-172/ 3.7-3.9) has been waitlisted.

This cycle or last?

[lemons]

yikes, midterms are not fun... they were definitely eating into my TLS time haha

i'm curious, is there a consensus to which top schools give the most scholarship $$ to URMs? both AA and MA? i'm getting worried about debt even though i've been told by several current law students that paying sticker at a T14 is fine because it will be possible to land a great job and pay it off really quickly, but now i'm not so sure if I'd be okay with ~$275K in debt

[sassybassy]

yikes, midterms are not fun... they were definitely eating into my TLS time haha

i'm curious, is there a consensus to which top schools give the most scholarship $$ to URMs? both AA and MA? i'm getting worried about debt even though i've been told by several current law students that paying sticker at a T14 is fine because it will be possible to land a great job and pay it off really quickly, but now i'm not so sure if I'd be okay with ~$275K in debt

I have that same mentality. I really want to get accepted to YHS in order to possibly use it as leverage for a better deal with CCN.

[Dr.Zer0]

[redacted]

[MoMettaMonk]

Is anyone else having reservations about applying to UPenn? Almost every URM applicant on LSN with around our numbers (162-172/ 3.7-3.9) has been waitlisted.

This. I had two friends one MA the other AA with 3.9 gpas and 164/166 LSATs they both got waitlisted at UPenn but both got in at H and S. From what I've read, UPenn doesn't seem to give much of a boost to URMs, (http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... el-in.html) but they might also be more YP prone to URMs.

I'm right there with you guys. I'm going to try to get a fee waiver, but if I don't I'm not sure if I can justify the app cost for what will probably be a waitlist.

[lemons]

Is anyone else having reservations about applying to UPenn? Almost every URM applicant on LSN with around our numbers (162-172/ 3.7-3.9) has been waitlisted.

This. I had two friends one MA the other AA with 3.9 gpas and 164/166 LSATs they both got waitlisted at UPenn but both got in at H and S. From what I've read, UPenn doesn't seem to give much of a boost to URMs, (http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... el-in.html) but they might also be more YP prone to URMs.

I'm right there with you guys. I'm going to try to get a fee waiver, but if I don't I'm not sure if I can justify the app cost for what will probably be a waitlist.

darn, i didn't realized UPenn was so unfriendly to URMs. i was hoping to get in there and use it as leverage at other schools. but i think you are right, MoMettaMonk, the application fee may not be worth it. even the $25 report fee might not be worth it

[Dr.Zer0]

Is anyone else having reservations about applying to UPenn? Almost every URM applicant on LSN with around our numbers (162-172/ 3.7-3.9) has been waitlisted.

This. I had two friends one MA the other AA with 3.9 gpas and 164/166 LSATs they both got waitlisted at UPenn but both got in at H and S. From what I've read, UPenn doesn't seem to give much of a boost to URMs, (http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... el-in.html) but they might also be more YP prone to URMs.

I'm right there with you guys. I'm going to try to get a fee waiver, but if I don't I'm not sure if I can justify the app cost for what will probably be a waitlist.

darn, i didn't realized UPenn was so unfriendly to URMs. i was hoping to get in there and use it as leverage at other schools. but i think you are right, MoMettaMonk, the application fee may not be worth it. even the $25 report fee might not be worth it

True, if you just wanted UPenn to use it as leverage, it might not be worth it. But if you really want to attend, writing a why statement might help counter YP, which is something my friends didn't do.

[MoMettaMonk]

True, if you just wanted UPenn to use it as leverage, it might not be worth it. But if you really want to attend, writing a why statement might help counter YP, which is something my friends didn't do.

The really crazy thing is that if there was a school that could pull away students from the T6 it would be Penn. Their employment stats are insane (assuming you want BigLaw).

And looking at the numbers more widely, Penn really does just waitlist an awful lot of people.

[Dr.Zer0]

True, if you just wanted UPenn to use it as leverage, it might not be worth it. But if you really want to attend, writing a why statement might help counter YP, which is something my friends didn't do.

The really crazy thing is that if there was a school that could pull away students from the T6 it would be Penn. Their employment stats are insane (assuming you want BigLaw).

And looking at the numbers more widely, Penn really does just waitlist an awful lot of people.

Yup their big law placement rivals that of Columbia. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... zanc&gid=1

[sassybassy]

Do schools YP applicants they've invited to apply/given fee waivers?

[twenty]

Absolutely.

[sassybassy]

Absolutely.

Aw.

[twenty]

That doesn't mean they will, though! I think it's always worth applying if you have a fee waiver (I mean, if you could actually see yourself attending). Plenty of folks get non-solicited fee waivers and then get in -- it probably happens more often than not. That said, just because you have a fee waiver is in no way an indicator of the school's accepting you.

[Mojosodope]

That doesn't mean they will, though! I think it's always worth applying if you have a fee waiver (I mean, if you could actually see yourself attending). Plenty of folks get non-solicited fee waivers and then get in -- it probably happens more often than not. That said, just because you have a fee waiver is in no way an indicator of the school's accepting you.

Score one for getting that LSAC waiver...one of the few times it benefited me to be an independent

[mt2165]

Even though we're 0L's, do you guys find yourselves more public interest oriented or BigLaw? Personally, I like to think I'm very committed to ideals of justice but sometimes I find myself craving the finer material things in life as well. Not to mention I feel like I owe something to the community as an AA. Sorry if this was discussed earlier.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Even though we're 0L's, do you guys find yourselves more public interest oriented or BigLaw? Personally, I like to think I'm very committed to ideals of justice but sometimes I find myself craving the finer material things in life as well. Not to mention I feel like I owe something to the community as an AA. Sorry if this was discussed earlier.

I have little to no interest in BigLaw, so definitely oriented towards PI and Academia.

[mt2165]

Even though we're 0L's, do you guys find yourselves more public interest oriented or BigLaw? Personally, I like to think I'm very committed to ideals of justice but sometimes I find myself craving the finer material things in life as well. Not to mention I feel like I owe something to the community as an AA. Sorry if this was discussed earlier.

I have little to no interest in BigLaw, so definitely oriented towards PI and Academia.

Same, I have almost no interest in the nature of the job but more interest in the financial incentives. I really thought Academia would be the perfect balance, especially for someone like me who loves learning, studying, collaborating, etc minus the fact that it seems like academia is a complete crap shoot. At this point govt/politics would probably be a dream outcome.

[Dr.Zer0]

[redacted]

[mt2165]

Even though we're 0L's, do you guys find yourselves more public interest oriented or BigLaw? Personally, I like to think I'm very committed to ideals of justice but sometimes I find myself craving the finer material things in life as well. Not to mention I feel like I owe something to the community as an AA. Sorry if this was discussed earlier.

I feel like I owe something to my family first, that being said, I'm all for Big Law since that will help me provide the most for my family. But I do plan to give $$$ in form of scholarships since they basically funded my UG and are what allowed me to get a high GPA, enjoy my UG, and partake in extra curriculars.

I definitely see where you are coming from. My parents have given it all so that I can succeed. I want to do right by them. But I think at least in the case of my parents, that part of doing right by them and making them proud is helping others. I don't know, there's dignity in every job, depends on how you do it.

[Dr.Zer0]

[redacted]

[mandyjay11]

Does anyone find it difficult to separate their PS from their DS sometimes? Finally got a draft done of my PS statement but realized that my DS statement was overlapping quite a bit with the former. Ugh sick of writing, my ps might be shittastic atm, but at least its something...Mandyjay you still want to swap?


ETA: Got my former and my latter mixed up...this is why I suck at LR

I'm in. Pm me your shittastic essay lol

[sassybassy]

I've always wanted to do public interest, but I'm beginning to feel the allure of actually having $$$ and paying off debts quickly so Big Law is looking more enticing. Might get rich and give back. "To me, that's the win win." Lol

In any case, I had an internship on the hill and one of the people I worked under had previously worked for Big Law in NY for about 2 years and paid off all his debt (he went to MI) then entered gov't service. He's pretty senior so that's a route I've personally been considering.

[lemons]

I've always wanted to do public interest, but I'm beginning to feel the allure of actually having $$$ and paying off debts quickly so Big Law is looking more enticing. Might get rich and give back. "To me, that's the win win." Lol

In any case, I had an internship on the hill and one of the people I worked under had previously worked for Big Law in NY for about 2 years and paid off all his debt (he went to MI) then entered gov't service. He's pretty senior so that's a route I've personally been considering.

that's really good to know sassybassy... i didn't realize that is was that easy to go from Big Law to gov't work. i'm ultimately interested in public interest and government jobs but i don't have any clue how people get into jobs like that. the person I know in government work said the job just kind of fell into their laps so that was not really helpful

[twenty]

A couple things -- public interest jobs, unlike biglaw jobs, are not significantly easier to obtain from T14 schools. For instance, George Washington University sends an tremendous number of graduates into government and public interest -- far more than Georgetown. W&M places even more of its class into PI/Govt than does GWU. That's frustrating to a lot of folks looking to go for government especially. A Columbia graduate who comes out of school with 250k debt ends up at a desk right next to a smiling Washington and Lee graduate who got a full ride and a stipend. This is far less likely to happen in biglaw.

Secondly, PI/Govt is a lifestyle, not something you "gun for" in law school. If you have no experience in the field, you have no business trying to get that experience during 2L and 3L summers in the hopes of beating the rest of the country. I have four years of work experience for a major federal agency in a very specific type of law, I have career tenure, and I've had lunch a couple times with the guy in charge of attorney honors hiring for this half of the country. Chances are, if you and I are going for this same job, I'm going to beat you no matter what you did during your 2L summer.

There's a reason why almost everyone who goes into law school wanting a general "public interest career" ends up in biglaw.

I know a lot of you don't have to make this decision for several more months at least, but be counting on the fact that unless you have a couple years of work experience in a field where you're going to beat out the rest of the country to the parallel attorney job, you're probably not ending up in public interest/government, at least right out of law school.

Hope this helps somebody.