URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
DukeURMGrad
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:02 pm

URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby DukeURMGrad » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:08 pm

I am not a troll, this is a real experience.

Okay, so i am starting a new job on Monday after being unemployed for almost 1 year. i know, it's crazy! I should be very excited, but honestly I'm not. I have a JD and a BA. My supervisor is 3 years younger than me. I just feel like this is a position I would have gotten BEFORE i went to law school. What was the point of getting law degree if it's not helping me advance career wise?

I don't think anyone would hire me to practice law because i DIDNT get the best grades in law school and I am not from a privileged family. In fact, I am a black female from a low income background. All of this is so painful because I feel like I worked hard for nothing. I am in a lot of debt, and this job does not qualify me for any loan assistance programs. I see my classmates doing so well and I can't help but cry, a lot. Why am i not getting such a positive outcome? The job is political organizing, something I have no interest in, but I really really need the money. I just want to cry about the direction my life is headed. I feel like all of this could have been prevented if i went to a different school or just didn't go to law school at all. However, when I picked law schools, I was told over and over again to attend the prestigious top 10 law school instead of my cheap local university. This advice has ruined my life. I am in so much debt when I could have gone to school for free. The career center, alumni, and professors from my prestigious school have not helped me AT ALL during the past yr. I went to Duke Law in North Carolina. The racism at this school is class A. I don't know what i PAID for. I feel like they stole my money and ruined my life. I feel like people who did moderately okay at the local law school will look better than someone like me with **** grades from a good school. I can't even get contract law jobs. It hurts when I see people from howard getting contract jobs and professional jobs before me. I am not trying to act superior, but i DONT understand why they are preferred over over. I just want to warn other black law students. Law is not a good career choice right now and I don't think it will ever be.

I just feel so trapped and feel like a failure. Honestly, I wish I could sue the school, but i WOULD have no legal basis or recruit enough graduates to join in.

Buyer beware! DUKE SUCKS as do many programs right now.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18407
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby bk1 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:16 pm

Outside of the racism you talk about at Duke (which doesn't necessarily apply to other law schools), I don't see how any of what you say is URM, black, or even minority specific. And just because you had a bad outcome makes law not a good career choice for anyone ever?

Your post comes off as entitled. You don't understand how they were preferred over you? How about grades, interviewing skills, and connections? School prestige is not the be all, end all. If you can't fathom that then there's a decent chance you didn't come off well when interviewing.

User avatar
irish1485
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby irish1485 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:19 pm

DukeURMGrad wrote:I am not a troll, this is a real experience.

Okay, so i am starting a new job on Monday after being unemployed for almost 1 year. i know, it's crazy! I should be very excited, but honestly I'm not. I have a JD and a BA. My supervisor is 3 years younger than me. I just feel like this is a position I would have gotten BEFORE i went to law school. What was the point of getting law degree if it's not helping me advance career wise?

I don't think anyone would hire me to practice law because i DIDNT get the best grades in law school and I am not from a privileged family. In fact, I am a black female from a low income background. All of this is so painful because I feel like I worked hard for nothing. I am in a lot of debt, and this job does not qualify me for any loan assistance programs. I see my classmates doing so well and I can't help but cry, a lot. Why am i not getting such a positive outcome? The job is political organizing, something I have no interest in, but I really really need the money. I just want to cry about the direction my life is headed. I feel like all of this could have been prevented if i went to a different school or just didn't go to law school at all. However, when I picked law schools, I was told over and over again to attend the prestigious top 10 law school instead of my cheap local university. This advice has ruined my life. I am in so much debt when I could have gone to school for free. The career center, alumni, and professors from my prestigious school have not helped me AT ALL during the past yr. I went to Duke Law in North Carolina. The racism at this school is class A. I don't know what i PAID for. I feel like they stole my money and ruined my life. I feel like people who did moderately okay at the local law school will look better than someone like me with **** grades from a good school. I can't even get contract law jobs. It hurts when I see people from howard getting contract jobs and professional jobs before me. I am not trying to act superior, but i DONT understand why they are preferred over over. I just want to warn other black law students. Law is not a good career choice right now and I don't think it will ever be.

I just feel so trapped and feel like a failure. Honestly, I wish I could sue the school, but i WOULD have no legal basis or recruit enough graduates to join in.

Buyer beware! DUKE SUCKS as do many programs right now.


Wow, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a tough time.

Do you care to share exactly how bad you grades were? Were you at the very bottom of the class?

DukeURMGrad
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby DukeURMGrad » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:47 pm

i am writing this post because ALOT of my other URM friends are in a similar position--not because i feel like some entitled brat. i graduated with a 2.97. Very low, i know--but it's hard to concentrate when you hear nothing but racist comments in class that are indirectly taking jabs at you and your community. It's not at all about interviewing or grades, IMO. Regardless, I have reached out to many Duke Law alums in my area (2nd biggest legal market) and they have not helped at all. Some did not even respond to my emails. Is this what happens at other schools as well?

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:49 pm

Describe these racist, in-class comments.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18407
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby bk1 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:55 pm

DukeURMGrad wrote:i am writing this post because ALOT of my other URM friends are in a similar position--not because i feel like some entitled brat. i graduated with a 2.97. Very low, i know--but it's hard to concentrate when you hear nothing but racist comments in class that are indirectly taking jabs at you and your community. It's not at all about interviewing or grades, IMO. Regardless, I have reached out to many Duke Law alums in my area (2nd biggest legal market) and they have not helped at all. Some did not even respond to my emails. Is this what happens at other schools as well?


I would imagine that a lot of people not responding is probably normal since they have jobs and generally don't have time for random strangers who email them. That being said it also depends on the way you go about it. If you say something like "hey I'm interested in your practice area, we have X in common, and was just wondering if you had time to meet with me and discuss it over coffee" and then keep talking to them for a while, when something comes up they'll think of you. If you say something like "hey I'm an unemployed grad and was curious if there were any job opps you had heard of, here is my resume could you forward it along to anybody you know?" you'll likely get fewer responses. This is kind of moot now, but it would help if you went to student/alum mixers and met people that way, then shot them an email (rather than just emailing out of the blue).

I had some insensitive people in my class but it didn't really bother me per se (more like "lol that person is fucking stupid"). Plus it's not like they're whispering in your ear on an exam.

IsTheFatLadySinging
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:06 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby IsTheFatLadySinging » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:00 pm

Just because you go T10 doesn't mean the carpet is going to be rolled out to you. It takes connections, interviews, spamming the resume across the country.

Don't blame other people for your problems. It is all on you.

While there might be a few bad apples in your law school, they are in every law school.

Fletcher Reed
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Fletcher Reed » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:02 pm

Am I crazy for thinking the original post is an extremely passive aggressive fictional tale designed to take a jab at URM's?
Last edited by Fletcher Reed on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LOLyer
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby LOLyer » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Where was your LSAT/GPA relative to the spectrum of other admitted students? If your URM status was too big of a boost (i.e. you would not have otherwise been admitted) that obviously worked heavily against you. Classic illustration of some of the dissents in Grutter v. Bollinger.

Keep your chin up, though. Persistence is the key.

That said, it's important not to play the blame game. I hate to be so blunt, but it's really your own fault you didn't make higher grades. You don't know what other people are going through (trust me).
Last edited by LOLyer on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:07 pm

LOLyer wrote:Where was your LSAT/GPA relative to the spectrum of other admitted students? If your URM status was too big of a boost (i.e. you would not have otherwise been admitted) that obviously worked heavily against you. Classic illustration of some of the dissents in Grutter v. Bollinger.

Keep your chin up, though. Persistence is the key.

IBAAdebate.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18407
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby bk1 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:11 pm

Fletcher Reed wrote:Am I crazy for thinking the original post is an extremely passive aggressive fictional tale designed to take a jab at URM's?


I saw that too but gave OP the benefit of the doubt. But if anything does materialize (whether from OP or someone else) then the thread is over.

User avatar
GirlStop
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:49 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby GirlStop » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:13 pm

DukeURMGrad wrote:i am writing this post because ALOT of my other URM friends are in a similar position--not because i feel like some entitled brat. i graduated with a 2.97. Very low, i know--but it's hard to concentrate when you hear nothing but racist comments in class that are indirectly taking jabs at you and your community. It's not at all about interviewing or grades, IMO. Regardless, I have reached out to many Duke Law alums in my area (2nd biggest legal market) and they have not helped at all. Some did not even respond to my emails. Is this what happens at other schools as well?


I can see how the comments made it quite difficult for you to feel comfortable in the LS community, but the "Its their fault" argument takes away from your post and will inevitable take this thread into a different (and unfortunate) direction.

Can you talk more about the grades and what assistance Duke Law provided to students who were struggling with grades ? Were the professors accessible ? How did other URM students in your class perform?

I applaud you for sharing this information and I truly hope things get better for you. [Congrats on the job!]

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:17 pm

Maybe I'm naive, but I go to a Southern school, and I find it hard to believe that people are making overtly racist comments in class.

User avatar
sharktankdean
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby sharktankdean » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:22 pm

You are trying to turn a specific case to something general. Also I am sure there are non- URMs in your position.

From reading your post there is really nothing to validate your point. How much work did you put into trying to find a job? What did you do during your law school summers? What are your grades? How exactly has your race held you back (be specific don't just say I'm black)?


You also sound entitled. Very entitled. Howard may not be the best school in the US. But they train good lawyers. With better grades, personality, and interview skills someone from Howard could be hired over u.

If you did bad in law school that's not entirely Duke's fault. And no one on this site would ever say that going to a T-14 guarantees u a job. It helps.

I understand you are trying to give advice but you aren't doing us any good if you don't know and give us all the info.

Best of us luck

IsTheFatLadySinging
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:06 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby IsTheFatLadySinging » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:44 pm

sharktankdean wrote:

You also sound entitled. Very entitled. Howard may not be the best school in the US. But they train good lawyers. With better grades, personality, and interview skills someone from Howard could be hired over u.

If you did bad in law school that's not entirely Duke's fault. And no one on this site would ever say that going to a T-14 guarantees u a job. It helps.


This.

User avatar
Kring345
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Kring345 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:53 pm

+3000000

You sound extraordinarily entitled. Did you hustle at all for a job, because your grades sucked.

Im just a 0L, but Im be at CLS next year. Ive already signed up for my undergrads alumni association in NYC to network, Ive identified over 50 associates/partners in top NYC law firms with a Marine Corps background like myself who I plan to contact, Im reading everything that I can about networking and job hunting, and Im in contact with a few associations at the law school. And I dont even start for another 2 months. And Im going to a school with better job prospects (theoretically). I refuse to be left in the dust.

So you have horrible grades, seem extraordinarily entitled, are blaming others for your fuck up (NOT only grades, but your decision to attend Duke or regional), and dont seem to be hustling for jobs. I sure as hell wouldnt hire you, and I certainly dont feel bad for you.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Renzo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:Maybe I'm naive, but I go to a Southern school, and I find it hard to believe that people are making overtly racist comments in class.


But not so hard to believe that they are making subtly racist statements?

User avatar
LSAT>LDAC
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 1:02 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby LSAT>LDAC » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanks for the advice, but I think the "keep your grades up in Law School" advice would have sufficed.

Harlyn
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:06 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Harlyn » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:25 pm

OP, I'm sorry that you life sucks right now but your fear mongering is mostly unwarranted. Like some other posters said, shitty grades and no connections put people in the position you find yourself in now, race has nothing to do with it. While it's terrible that you faced discrimination while attending school, law school is only three years long. I've faced discrimination in the classroom before and never allowed ignorant people to get in the way of something I wanted. You come off as very immature and naive.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:31 pm

Renzo wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Maybe I'm naive, but I go to a Southern school, and I find it hard to believe that people are making overtly racist comments in class.


But not so hard to believe that they are making subtly racist statements?

Frankly I find that pretty hard to believe too.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:35 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Renzo wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Maybe I'm naive, but I go to a Southern school, and I find it hard to believe that people are making overtly racist comments in class.


But not so hard to believe that they are making subtly racist statements?

Frankly I find that pretty hard to believe too.

In what law classes are there that many opportunities for racism, that it would be such a distraction? In 1L, I could see that coming up sometimes in crim because there's definitely some material covering race in the criminal justice system, but is OP really claiming that people were constantly making racist comments in contracts, property, torts, civpro, or LRW?

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Renzo wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Maybe I'm naive, but I go to a Southern school, and I find it hard to believe that people are making overtly racist comments in class.


But not so hard to believe that they are making subtly racist statements?

Frankly I find that pretty hard to believe too.

In what law classes are there that many opportunities for racism, that it would be such a distraction? In 1L, I could see that coming up sometimes in crim because there's definitely some material covering race in the criminal justice system, but is OP really claiming that people were constantly making racist comments in contracts, property, torts, civpro, or LRW?

Bro the Federal Rules are a tool of oppression wrought upon minorities for the benefit of the white man.

User avatar
Helicio
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:22 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Helicio » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:35 pm

I'm not URM (Middle Eastern), but from my experience Duke Law is an extremely liberal place that cherishes diversity. Many of its faculty are URM themselves.

So I think the OP is a troll. Either the OP is a non-URM trolling, or a URM/non-URM who just hates Duke and is out to make Duke look bad (there are more of those than you'd think...UNC-Duke rivalry is intense to the point that people spell Duke "dook" for lulz even though it ceased being funny years ago).



If I was URM and got into Harvard Law, I would go to Harvard Law even if I had a sub-170 LSAT score. Your advice is dumb and any URM who takes it is dumb too (although you are probably not URM).

Peace out troll.

User avatar
LSAT>LDAC
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 1:02 am

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby LSAT>LDAC » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:32 pm

Yeah and the OP didn't bring this up, but if you do terrible in collegiate sports, you're gonna have an untraditionally difficult job obtaining employment at a professional level too.

User avatar
Helicio
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:22 pm

Re: URM Students--think long and hard about law school choices

Postby Helicio » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:38 pm

LSAT>LDAC wrote:Yeah and the OP didn't bring this up, but if you do terrible in collegiate sports, you're gonna have an untraditionally difficult job obtaining employment at a professional level too.


Exactly. OP is basically saying that s/he did terrible in lawl school; therefore, others will do terrible in lawl school.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests