Is Loyola Law School La worth attending with a $60,000 scholarship

[47802ejefferson]

Is Loyola Law School La worth attending with a $60,000 scholarship evenly spread over 3 years? This would cut tuition from 180k to 120k. My goal is to practice corporate law (M&A in particular). However, I've been reading on several websites that the odds of working in corporate law are slim if one does not attend a T14. I'm currently waiting on my feedback from USC Gould. But LMU and USC are the only schools that I applied to. Also the average salary of a Loyola grad is around 83k.

[cavalier1138]

No, it is not worth it, especially for your goals.

The type of law you want to practice is really only found in large firms. LMU only places 10-15% of its graduates in those firms. And if you don't get placed in one of those firms, don't expect to earn enough to pay off your $200k debt (tuition plus cost of living, origination fees, and interest).

And be careful with salary data. According to LST, the median salary for employed 2018 grads who reported their salary was $80k. But roughly 1/3 of employed grads didn't even report their salary.

[decimalsanddollars]

No, it is not worth it, especially for your goals.

The type of law you want to practice is really only found in large firms. LMU only places 10-15% of its graduates in those firms. And if you don't get placed in one of those firms, don't expect to earn enough to pay off your $200k debt (tuition plus cost of living, origination fees, and interest).

And be careful with salary data. According to LST, the median salary for employed 2018 grads who reported their salary was $80k. But roughly 1/3 of employed grads didn't even report their salary.

+1. That median salary number is pretty misleading, and the kind of firms that do this work (large firms almost exclusively) hire almost exclusively from the top 14-20 law schools [expanded to 20 because schools like UCLA, USC, UT, Vanderbilt, and to a certain extent WashU do place a good number of grads in large firms, but most firms focus on the T14 regardless of location]. As Cav said, only a small proportion of LMU grads get to start at a large firm.

What are your numbers like? Where do you want to work---presumably LA, but is SF off the table? What about NYC? If you can, you should retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle, and apply to more law schools. I would at least add Pepperdine, UC Irvine, etc., but if your numbers improve, you should apply to the T14 as well.

[Johnnybgoode92]

Is Loyola Law School La worth attending with a $60,000 scholarship evenly spread over 3 years? This would cut tuition from 180k to 120k. My goal is to practice corporate law (M&A in particular). However, I've been reading on several websites that the odds of working in corporate law are slim if one does not attend a T14. I'm currently waiting on my feedback from USC Gould. But LMU and USC are the only schools that I applied to. Also the average salary of a Loyola grad is around 83k.

Don’t go. Retake LSAT. Go to USC for free.

[LSATWiz.com]

That $83k median is based on the reported salaries of 242 grads employed at graduation. As Loyola has approximately 367 students in each graduating class, a third of those grads were likely not employed. The $83k median salary suggests that 2/3 of graduates earned less than $83,000. This was during an economic boom. If we fall into recession, that 1/3 will likely become 1/10. $83k is not a substantial amount of money to provide for yourself and start a family in Southern California, much less to do so while repaying six-figure debt. USC is a much better option.

[Johnnybgoode92]

That $83k median is based on the reported salaries of 242 grads employed at graduation. As Loyola has approximately 367 students in each graduating class, a third of those grads were likely not employed. The $83k median salary suggests that 2/3 of graduates earned less than $83,000. This was during an economic boom. If we fall into recession, that 1/3 will likely become 1/10. $83k is not a substantial amount of money to provide for yourself and start a family in Southern California, much less to do so while repaying six-figure debt. USC is a much better option.

I am not at a T14 but a T20. Given the risk to the economy, I’d be extremely averse to taking out loans to go to anything other than a T6. USC for free, sure.

[LSATWiz.com]

That $83k median is based on the reported salaries of 242 grads employed at graduation. As Loyola has approximately 367 students in each graduating class, a third of those grads were likely not employed. The $83k median salary suggests that 2/3 of graduates earned less than $83,000. This was during an economic boom. If we fall into recession, that 1/3 will likely become 1/10. $83k is not a substantial amount of money to provide for yourself and start a family in Southern California, much less to do so while repaying six-figure debt. USC is a much better option.

I am not at a T14 but a T20. Given the risk to the economy, I’d be extremely averse to taking out loans to go to anything other than a T6. USC for free, sure.

Yeah, my economic outlook has changed significantly over the past few days. On Monday, I thought this would be worse than 2008, but the market has been up 20% in the past week. I don't know how it shakes out, but if COVID-19 is seasonal and US companies produce the only working vaccines and prescription drug then it is possible then there is a reality in which our economy benefits from this. We just don't know.

I would say that USC is a quality school in any economy, and I don't think it's meaningfully more risky than going to than Cornell or Georgetown from a long term standpoint. I just would never trust median salaries, and especially wouldn't trust median salaries reported in boom times. There is no "secret" tier-two school in a desirable market that will have good placement. Any intelligent person living in Los Angeles or New York with some hustle will be able to come up with a way to make $100k in five-years of working. The positive of big law is that it's easy to get from certain schools and pays much more than a $100k. Going to Loyola with debt has a very high risk of creating a downward spiral where you find yourself in dead-end jobs with a shattered self-concept that makes it difficult to find opportunities you would have found if you just didn't go to law school.