Emory or UT (I know, enough of these BS posts already) Forum

[half moon]

You're right, there's no reason to mention it in the choosing a law school thread. Just thought this was a community where I could share a bit. It's not like I asked how I should go about becoming a professor. Just wanted to share with you guys since you've all been so much help during this whole process. But I guess my end game is a stupid ass one.

Not stupid I don't think, just that the way I initially read it was that you were not sold on a career as a lawyer and would be looking for an exit asap. Based on the way the convo has turned though, I'm starting to think you do want a career in law, and then see what happens quite a ways down the road? If that's the case, I'll second brinicolec and say visit Texas. If you feel comfortable there, I'd pick it because it gives you a better shot at the job outcome you want, just most likely in Texas. If it doesn't feel like a place you'd be OK living, I'd go with Emory because its a good school for Atlanta and somewhat limits your debt

[pleasesendhelp]

I edited the OP, but you definitely jumped to conclusions. I said that I'm aware people burn out around three years or get fired. If I can hack it, I will be a lawyer as long as I can, but I'd like to teach when I'm through with being a lawyer. I didn't say I'd work until my debt is paid then go straight to getting a PhD.

No, I read your actual posts and drew my conclusions from your own words. You want to be "a lawyer", but your only specified career path is to do biglaw for as long as you can survive. And your sole motivation is to make lots of money.

So again, why do you want to be a lawyer? And why do you think that academia will be a feasible exit option?

My goal is big law, yes. Will I achieve it maybe not. But I can't imagine anyone doing big law for anything other than the money after reading all the horror stories on this forum. If it was PI or Fed work that'd be a different story. Those people need passion. I don't want to do either of the two.

Legal academia is impossible for me, I'm aware. But I can go to a community college and teach literature, or is that impossible?

Look, I appreciate that deep down your trying to save me from racking up debt and squandering three years of my life. Thank you, seriously. This is what I love about this forum. No bullshit.

But back to my question... UT or Emory

If you def. want BL, I'd recommend considering sitting out and retaking and trying to crack the T13.

I'm not really sure if UT is going to get you back to ATL. It's hard to know how much is self-selection vs. having difficulty getting the job, but when I went to the ASD, it seemed like they insisted people could get jobs elsewhere if they wanted to. However, it has moved up in the rankings, so maybe that'll help with placement, idk. Since you want to be in ATL, Emory seems like it would make more sense from that standpoint, but since you seem kinda like you're BL or bust, neither of them seem like they're a great choice.

I'd love to sit out, but the problem isn't my LSAT or any of my softs. My GPA is below every 25th for T1s. Still waiting on some T13s, but will probably get no scholly

[cavalier1138]

I edited the OP, but you definitely jumped to conclusions. I said that I'm aware people burn out around three years or get fired. If I can hack it, I will be a lawyer as long as I can, but I'd like to teach when I'm through with being a lawyer. I didn't say I'd work until my debt is paid then go straight to getting a PhD.

No, I read your actual posts and drew my conclusions from your own words. You want to be "a lawyer", but your only specified career path is to do biglaw for as long as you can survive. And your sole motivation is to make lots of money.

So again, why do you want to be a lawyer? And why do you think that academia will be a feasible exit option?

My goal is big law, yes. Will I achieve it maybe not. But I can't imagine anyone doing big law for anything other than the money after reading all the horror stories on this forum. If it was PI or Fed work that'd be a different story. Those people need passion. I don't want to do either of the two.

Legal academia is impossible for me, I'm aware. But I can go to a community college and teach literature, or is that impossible?

Look, I appreciate that deep down your trying to save me from racking up debt and squandering three years of my life. Thank you, seriously. This is what I love about this forum. No bullshit.

But back to my question... UT or Emory

You know that most of the horror stories in biglaw come from people who went into it for the money. I'm not saying it's a great field or a realistic long-term career for anyone, which is precisely why I think it's stupid to build your ideal legal career around just surviving for a few years in the biglaw setting (especially when the outcome isn't terribly likely). And you still haven't actually articulated why you want to be a lawyer, which is not something that only people who want PI or government work should be able to do.

And yes, you should probably look into the realities of being a professor at any level, because PhD programs are kind of known for being selective. Even community colleges can afford to be a little selective about who they hire, and if your life goal is to teach, then no amount of work in the law will help you reach that goal. It's a pointless sidetrack if you already know that you want to be teaching.

[mjb447]

Also, end game is to go back and get a PhD in literature, not law.

EDIT: By end game I mean wayyyyyy down the road when I'm like 50. 30 or so years down the line. So please, stop the hate

I get y'all, but the plan goes like this:

Go to law school
Get the Big Law Job and stick to it for as long as possible
{???}
Then think about academia

Becoming a legal professor is near impossible, I know, but I want to become a liberal arts prof, doesnt matter where, but I'm thinking wayyyy down to the line when I'm old and grey.

Professor is the end game, but I'll stay in Big Law until they fire me or I make enough money so I dont have to worry about COL while pursuing a PHD.

What goes in the curly brackets above, i.e., what is your post-biglaw pre-PhD plan? Assuming that you get biglaw (to beat a dead horse, not at all guaranteed), I was under the impression that even ten years, much less thirty, was kind of a long time to avoid the "up or out" talk even if you're willing to keep at it. It seems like you know that you won't make partner, so I hope you've got a tentative plan for the other twentyish years of your career. (Keep in mind that most other legal jobs won't allow you put away nearly as much $$$ as biglaw for your master plan.)

[brinicolec]

I edited the OP, but you definitely jumped to conclusions. I said that I'm aware people burn out around three years or get fired. If I can hack it, I will be a lawyer as long as I can, but I'd like to teach when I'm through with being a lawyer. I didn't say I'd work until my debt is paid then go straight to getting a PhD.

No, I read your actual posts and drew my conclusions from your own words. You want to be "a lawyer", but your only specified career path is to do biglaw for as long as you can survive. And your sole motivation is to make lots of money.

So again, why do you want to be a lawyer? And why do you think that academia will be a feasible exit option?

My goal is big law, yes. Will I achieve it maybe not. But I can't imagine anyone doing big law for anything other than the money after reading all the horror stories on this forum. If it was PI or Fed work that'd be a different story. Those people need passion. I don't want to do either of the two.

Legal academia is impossible for me, I'm aware. But I can go to a community college and teach literature, or is that impossible?

Look, I appreciate that deep down your trying to save me from racking up debt and squandering three years of my life. Thank you, seriously. This is what I love about this forum. No bullshit.

But back to my question... UT or Emory

If you def. want BL, I'd recommend considering sitting out and retaking and trying to crack the T13.

I'm not really sure if UT is going to get you back to ATL. It's hard to know how much is self-selection vs. having difficulty getting the job, but when I went to the ASD, it seemed like they insisted people could get jobs elsewhere if they wanted to. However, it has moved up in the rankings, so maybe that'll help with placement, idk. Since you want to be in ATL, Emory seems like it would make more sense from that standpoint, but since you seem kinda like you're BL or bust, neither of them seem like they're a great choice.

I'd love to sit out, but the problem isn't my LSAT or any of my softs. My GPA is below every 25th for T1s. Still waiting on some T13s, but will probably get no scholly

I mean, my GPA is below 25ths as well and I got into a couple T13s & WLed at most of the others I applied to.

[cavalier1138]

Also, end game is to go back and get a PhD in literature, not law.

EDIT: By end game I mean wayyyyyy down the road when I'm like 50. 30 or so years down the line. So please, stop the hate

I get y'all, but the plan goes like this:

Go to law school
Get the Big Law Job and stick to it for as long as possible
{???}
Then think about academia

Becoming a legal professor is near impossible, I know, but I want to become a liberal arts prof, doesnt matter where, but I'm thinking wayyyy down to the line when I'm old and grey.

Professor is the end game, but I'll stay in Big Law until they fire me or I make enough money so I dont have to worry about COL while pursuing a PHD.

What goes in the curly brackets above, i.e., what is your post-biglaw pre-PhD plan? Assuming that you get biglaw (to beat a dead horse, not at all guaranteed), I was under the impression that even ten years, much less thirty, was kind of a long time to avoid the "up or out" talk even if you're willing to keep at it. It seems like you know that you won't make partner, so I hope you've got a tentative plan for the other twentyish years of your career. (Keep in mind that most other legal jobs won't allow you put away nearly as much $$$ as biglaw for your master plan.)

This is exactly my sticking point. Just vaguely outlining "Biglaw---something---something---professorship" isn't actually a plan.

[pleasesendhelp]

I edited the OP, but you definitely jumped to conclusions. I said that I'm aware people burn out around three years or get fired. If I can hack it, I will be a lawyer as long as I can, but I'd like to teach when I'm through with being a lawyer. I didn't say I'd work until my debt is paid then go straight to getting a PhD.

No, I read your actual posts and drew my conclusions from your own words. You want to be "a lawyer", but your only specified career path is to do biglaw for as long as you can survive. And your sole motivation is to make lots of money.

So again, why do you want to be a lawyer? And why do you think that academia will be a feasible exit option?

My goal is big law, yes. Will I achieve it maybe not. But I can't imagine anyone doing big law for anything other than the money after reading all the horror stories on this forum. If it was PI or Fed work that'd be a different story. Those people need passion. I don't want to do either of the two.

Legal academia is impossible for me, I'm aware. But I can go to a community college and teach literature, or is that impossible?

Look, I appreciate that deep down your trying to save me from racking up debt and squandering three years of my life. Thank you, seriously. This is what I love about this forum. No bullshit.

But back to my question... UT or Emory

You know that most of the horror stories in biglaw come from people who went into it for the money. I'm not saying it's a great field or a realistic long-term career for anyone, which is precisely why I think it's stupid to build your ideal legal career around just surviving for a few years in the biglaw setting (especially when the outcome isn't terribly likely). And you still haven't actually articulated why you want to be a lawyer, which is not something that only people who want PI or government work should be able to do.

And yes, you should probably look into the realities of being a professor at any level, because PhD programs are kind of known for being selective. Even community colleges can afford to be a little selective about who they hire, and if your life goal is to teach, then no amount of work in the law will help you reach that goal. It's a pointless sidetrack if you already know that you want to be teaching.

The main reason (aside from money) is power. Not like, "I'm a big shot lawyer, respect me, bitch", but power to protect my loved ones and others who can't defend themselves because they don't know shit about the law. My parents are first generation immigrants and I can't tell you how many times people have tried to hustle them. I firmly believe knowledge is power, and imo expertise in the law is incredibly powerful. I don't want anyone I care about to be taken advantage of legally. I know big law is mostly pushing papers and helping the bad guy, but at least I can help my family.

[pleasesendhelp]

I edited the OP, but you definitely jumped to conclusions. I said that I'm aware people burn out around three years or get fired. If I can hack it, I will be a lawyer as long as I can, but I'd like to teach when I'm through with being a lawyer. I didn't say I'd work until my debt is paid then go straight to getting a PhD.

No, I read your actual posts and drew my conclusions from your own words. You want to be "a lawyer", but your only specified career path is to do biglaw for as long as you can survive. And your sole motivation is to make lots of money.

So again, why do you want to be a lawyer? And why do you think that academia will be a feasible exit option?

My goal is big law, yes. Will I achieve it maybe not. But I can't imagine anyone doing big law for anything other than the money after reading all the horror stories on this forum. If it was PI or Fed work that'd be a different story. Those people need passion. I don't want to do either of the two.

Legal academia is impossible for me, I'm aware. But I can go to a community college and teach literature, or is that impossible?

Look, I appreciate that deep down your trying to save me from racking up debt and squandering three years of my life. Thank you, seriously. This is what I love about this forum. No bullshit.

But back to my question... UT or Emory

If you def. want BL, I'd recommend considering sitting out and retaking and trying to crack the T13.

I'm not really sure if UT is going to get you back to ATL. It's hard to know how much is self-selection vs. having difficulty getting the job, but when I went to the ASD, it seemed like they insisted people could get jobs elsewhere if they wanted to. However, it has moved up in the rankings, so maybe that'll help with placement, idk. Since you want to be in ATL, Emory seems like it would make more sense from that standpoint, but since you seem kinda like you're BL or bust, neither of them seem like they're a great choice.

I'd love to sit out, but the problem isn't my LSAT or any of my softs. My GPA is below every 25th for T1s. Still waiting on some T13s, but will probably get no scholly

I mean, my GPA is below 25ths as well and I got into a couple T13s & WLed at most of the others I applied to.

I think a lot of my waitlist and rejections have to do with me finishing my undergrad abroad. But like I said, due to personal reasons, I can't wait any longer.

[half moon]

I'd love to sit out, but the problem isn't my LSAT or any of my softs. My GPA is below every 25th for T1s. Still waiting on some T13s, but will probably get no scholly

NU in particular is friendly to both splitters and to work experience. If you could get over 170, you might get in and may even get a little money, with a much better shot at big law at the end. My GPA is below all 25ths too, and I'm in at two T13s.

[cavalier1138]

The main reason (aside from money) is power. Not like, "I'm a big shot lawyer, respect me, bitch", but power to protect my loved ones and others who can't defend themselves because they don't know shit about the law. My parents are first generation immigrants and I can't tell you how many times people have tried to hustle them. I firmly believe knowledge is power, and imo expertise in the law is incredibly powerful. I don't want anyone I care about to be taken advantage of legally. I know big law is mostly pushing papers and helping the bad guy, but at least I can help my family.

Then why not immigration law, housing law, or any one of a few dozen other specialties that actually give you that power? The substantive areas of law you'd be dealing with in biglaw are so far outside the realm of what you're talking about, that you'd be more useful to your family as a reference to other lawyers than as a legal resource.

[pleasesendhelp]

,

[pleasesendhelp]

The main reason (aside from money) is power. Not like, "I'm a big shot lawyer, respect me, bitch", but power to protect my loved ones and others who can't defend themselves because they don't know shit about the law. My parents are first generation immigrants and I can't tell you how many times people have tried to hustle them. I firmly believe knowledge is power, and imo expertise in the law is incredibly powerful. I don't want anyone I care about to be taken advantage of legally. I know big law is mostly pushing papers and helping the bad guy, but at least I can help my family.

Then why not immigration law, housing law, or any one of a few dozen other specialties that actually give you that power? The substantive areas of law you'd be dealing with in biglaw are so far outside the realm of what you're talking about, that you'd be more useful to your family as a reference to other lawyers than as a legal resource.

But I don't get to choose, or so I'm told. I thought once you get a job at a big law firm they just place you where they need you

[pleasesendhelp]

lol in the end, that's simply what I want to do. I know it's not easy, or even possible. After all, the greatest plans of mice and men always eat the cheese again (sorry I forgot the exact quote). I could easily become a Lenny, but the hope is I don't.

[cavalier1138]

But I don't get to choose, or so I'm told. I thought once you get a job at a big law firm they just place you where they need you

Those specializations aren't found in biglaw firms. That's why I'm confused about your desire to work in biglaw at all if your legal interest is in helping people like your parents navigate the legal system.

lol in the end, that's simply what I want to do. I know it's not easy, or even possible. After all, the greatest plans of mice and men always eat the cheese again (sorry I forgot the exact quote). I could easily become a Lenny, but the hope is I don't.

Ok, then you don't get to complain when people criticize your plans for being entirely out of sync with your stated goals. "Just let me have my dreams" isn't a valid reason to go to law school.

[pleasesendhelp]

But I don't get to choose, or so I'm told. I thought once you get a job at a big law firm they just place you where they need you

Those specializations aren't found in biglaw firms. That's why I'm confused about your desire to work in biglaw at all if your legal interest is in helping people like your parents navigate the legal system.

lol in the end, that's simply what I want to do. I know it's not easy, or even possible. After all, the greatest plans of mice and men always eat the cheese again (sorry I forgot the exact quote). I could easily become a Lenny, but the hope is I don't.

Ok, then you don't get to complain when people criticize your plans for being entirely out of sync with your stated goals. "Just let me have my dreams" isn't a valid reason to go to law school.

I dont understand why money is such a terrible reason to pursue a career in law. Yes, there are other ways, but none that I am interested or qualified for. Law is something I am genuinely interested in, and I want money. I talk to lawyers at large firms and they all hate their job, all of them, but they do it because the pay is good and its less demanding than being a doctor. Do you live in a fairy world where money doesnt matter, or are you ok making minimum wage while living in a tiny ass studio as long as you help people? Call me shallow or whatever, but money seems like a pretty damn good reason.

[pleasesendhelp]

I'd love to sit out, but the problem isn't my LSAT or any of my softs. My GPA is below every 25th for T1s. Still waiting on some T13s, but will probably get no scholly

NU in particular is friendly to both splitters and to work experience. If you could get over 170, you might get in and may even get a little money, with a much better shot at big law at the end. My GPA is below all 25ths too, and I'm in at two T13s.

I hit 170 and my GPA is around a 3.0, plus its an international degree. If I could sit out, I would, but I cant

[cavalier1138]

But I don't get to choose, or so I'm told. I thought once you get a job at a big law firm they just place you where they need you

Those specializations aren't found in biglaw firms. That's why I'm confused about your desire to work in biglaw at all if your legal interest is in helping people like your parents navigate the legal system.

lol in the end, that's simply what I want to do. I know it's not easy, or even possible. After all, the greatest plans of mice and men always eat the cheese again (sorry I forgot the exact quote). I could easily become a Lenny, but the hope is I don't.

Ok, then you don't get to complain when people criticize your plans for being entirely out of sync with your stated goals. "Just let me have my dreams" isn't a valid reason to go to law school.

I dont understand why money is such a terrible reason to pursue a career in law. Yes, there are other ways, but none that I am interested or qualified for. Law is something I am genuinely interested in, and I want money. I talk to lawyers at large firms and they all hate their job, all of them, but they do it because the pay is good and its less demanding than being a doctor. Do you live in a fairy world where money doesnt matter, or are you ok making minimum wage while living in a tiny ass studio as long as you help people? Call me shallow or whatever, but money seems like a pretty damn good reason.

There are a lot of ways to make money in life. Biglaw is one of the least efficient ways. Much like biglaw is a very inefficient way to help your parents and/or other immigrants navigate the various US legal systems that they have to deal with. If that's your actual passion, I don't see why you can't take a modest-paying job in that field and actually achieve your goals, rather than just taking a job for the money and not being able to do a single thing that you listed.

And you still haven't explained what your post-biglaw-pre-PhD plans are.

[pleasesendhelp]

I mean, my GPA is below 25ths as well and I got into a couple T13s & WLed at most of the others I applied to.

I got waitlisted at a few T13s and still waiting on UVA and NYU, but with deposit deadlines approaching, I dont think I can afford to wait it out. Unless i get response before April, which would b miraculous

[mjb447]

And you still haven't explained what your post-biglaw-pre-PhD plans are.

(If it's immigration and housing rights or similar, I'm doubling down on 'you're not going to be able to save enough money to make this worthwhile.')

[pleasesendhelp]

.

As I've mentioned before, I really have no skills. Like, I dont know how to do anything but read quickly and write quickly. I lack ingenuity so being a writer is out of the question. Law is the best bet for me.

(If it's immigration and housing rights or similar, I'm doubling down on 'you're not going to be able to save enough money to make this worthwhile.')

My family earned their U.S. citizenship, so my goals have nothing to do with immigration law or housing.

My post big law plans are to get a masters in lit. Maybe post colonial, classic american lit, or European Poetry. I do thoroughly enjoy reading Rilke. Then I'd work on getting a PhD. I dont know the exact path I need to take for that though, but the only option available to me at this point is to go to law school and become a lawyer. I slacked way to hard in undergrad. So you can hate me for not having the passion to be a lawyer, but sorry dude, its all I got (other than teaching english back in asia, but damn do I hate teaching rich brats)

[mjb447]

.

(If it's immigration and housing rights or similar, I'm doubling down on 'you're not going to be able to save enough money to make this worthwhile.')

My family earned their U.S. citizenship, so my goals have nothing to do with immigration law or housing.

My post big law plans are to get a masters in lit. Maybe post colonial, classic american lit, or European Poetry. I do thoroughly enjoy reading Rilke. Then I'd work on getting a PhD. I dont know the exact path I need to take for that though, but the only option available to me at this point is to go to law school and become a lawyer. I slacked way to hard in undergrad. So you can hate me for not having the passion to be a lawyer, but sorry dude, its all I got (other than teaching english back in asia, but damn do I hate teaching rich brats)

So is your LEGAL career going to be closer to three or thirty years in length?

[pleasesendhelp]

.

(If it's immigration and housing rights or similar, I'm doubling down on 'you're not going to be able to save enough money to make this worthwhile.')

My family earned their U.S. citizenship, so my goals have nothing to do with immigration law or housing.

My post big law plans are to get a masters in lit. Maybe post colonial, classic american lit, or European Poetry. I do thoroughly enjoy reading Rilke. Then I'd work on getting a PhD. I dont know the exact path I need to take for that though, but the only option available to me at this point is to go to law school and become a lawyer. I slacked way to hard in undergrad. So you can hate me for not having the passion to be a lawyer, but sorry dude, its all I got (other than teaching english back in asia, but damn do I hate teaching rich brats)

So is your LEGAL career going to be closer to three or thirty years in length?

As long as possible. Im just being over realistic. The overwhelmingly consensus is that associates are churned out very 1-3 years. Im not so cocky to think I'm not gonna be one of those people that make it to partner track. If I can stay 30 years, build my network, save money, then id like to go back to school and HOPEFULLY become a professor.

[pleasesendhelp]

Did not expect to get roasted so hard lmao (crying internally)

[trebekismyhero]

.

(If it's immigration and housing rights or similar, I'm doubling down on 'you're not going to be able to save enough money to make this worthwhile.')

My family earned their U.S. citizenship, so my goals have nothing to do with immigration law or housing.

My post big law plans are to get a masters in lit. Maybe post colonial, classic american lit, or European Poetry. I do thoroughly enjoy reading Rilke. Then I'd work on getting a PhD. I dont know the exact path I need to take for that though, but the only option available to me at this point is to go to law school and become a lawyer. I slacked way to hard in undergrad. So you can hate me for not having the passion to be a lawyer, but sorry dude, its all I got (other than teaching english back in asia, but damn do I hate teaching rich brats)

So is your LEGAL career going to be closer to three or thirty years in length?

As long as possible. Im just being over realistic. The overwhelmingly consensus is that associates are churned out very 1-3 years. Im not so cocky to think I'm not gonna be one of those people. If I can stay 30 years, build my network, save money, then id like to go back to school and HOPEFULLY become a professor.

That's not how hiring in academia will work. As others have said, if $$ is your main reason for going to law school don't go. Especially at Emory and even at UT you are more likely to make $70k than $180k. If you have a passion for literature and being a professor, go try and get into a Phd program now. If $$ is your main passion, take the GMAT or GRE and go to a top B-school. Business schools generally are more forgiving of lower undergrad GPAs than law school

[cavalier1138]

As long as possible. Im just being over realistic. The overwhelmingly consensus is that associates are churned out very 1-3 years. Im not so cocky to think I'm not gonna be one of those people. If I can stay 30 years, build my network, save money, then id like to go back to school and HOPEFULLY become a professor.

So just to clarify, you think that it's realistic to think that your career options after school are either three years in biglaw or 30 years in biglaw? And then you think it's realistic that you can just fall into a PhD program in a highly competitive academic field?