UVA v Mich v Emory $$$

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Which school should I attend when gunning for PI in Atlanta?

UVA - COA 280k
4
18%
Mich - COA 270k
4
18%
Emory - COA 80k
14
64%
 
Total votes: 22

Phyllis Stein

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UVA v Mich v Emory $$$

Postby Phyllis Stein » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:22 am

The schools you are considering:
In at UVA, Mich, Penn, and Emory. However, I've never liked Philly, and I don't think I'd be happy there. I'm not even sure if I should be considering it at all.

Cost of Attendance (COA): I used LST debt at repayment and subtracted scholarships
UVA - $280k
Mich - $270k
Penn - $300k
Emory - $80k - I'd be getting help with some COL

How you will be financing your COA: loans (probably will rely a bit on PSLR/LRAP tbh)

Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties: The East Coast, including Atlanta.

Your general career goals: I would like the possibility of clerking after school (not a deal-breaker, it was mostly just talked up to me by lawyer relatives), but really I will be working in PI (possibly lambda legal, national women's law center, aclu, etc. -- the issue is it seems they tend to recruit from t14 and I don't want to handicap myself). Perhaps public policy in the future, as well.

Your LSAT/GPA numbers: 176/2.9 - I was in the engineering school before transferring to the uni's arts and sciences college, but the GPA damage had been done.

How many times you have taken the LSAT: 3 times - 152 (a friend was hospitalized the night before), 175, 176

Really, any direction would be helpful. I'm going to all ASWs so I'm sure the "feel" will influence me a bit, but I went to UG on scholly, so it's hard not to be eyeing the Emory COA as the number 1 factor. Also, I don't think I'm terribly risk averse, but I've never had debt so... who knows? Thanks in advance!

ETA: everywhere in between T10 and Emory either dinged or WLd me, and UChicago WLd me, too. I don't think I'm likely to get off of any waitlists, and if I was, money just won't be there because splitters don't seem to get much $$$ according to LSN.
Last edited by Phyllis Stein on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:11 am, edited 5 times in total.

20170322

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby 20170322 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:43 am

Phyllis Stein wrote:The schools you are considering:
In at UVA, Mich, Penn, and Emory. However, I've never liked Philly, and I don't think I'd be happy there. I'm not even sure if I should be considering it at all.

Cost of Attendance (COA): I used LST debt at repayment and subtracted scholarships
UVA - $280k
Mich - $270k
Penn - $300k
Emory - $80k - I'd be getting help with some COL

How you will be financing your COA: loans (probably will rely a bit on PSLR/LRAP tbh)

Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties: From NY/NJ area, with lots of family in Atlanta and Nashville. I would like to work in Atlanta for the long haul, but I am flexible.

Your general career goals: I would like the possibility of clerking after school (not a deal-breaker, it was mostly just talked up to me by lawyer relatives), but really I will be working in PI (possibly lambda legal, national women's law center, aclu, etc. -- the issue is it seems they tend to recruit from t14 and I don't want to handicap myself). Perhaps public policy in the future, as well.

Your LSAT/GPA numbers: 176/2.9 - I was in the engineering school before transferring to the uni's arts and sciences college, but the GPA damage had been done.

How many times you have taken the LSAT: 3 times - 152 (a friend was hospitalized the night before), 175, 176

Really, any direction would be helpful. I'm going to all ASWs so I'm sure the "feel" will influence me a bit, but I went to UG on scholly, so it's hard not to be eyeing the Emory COA as the number 1 factor. Also, I don't think I'm terribly risk averse, but I've never had debt so... who knows? Thanks in advance!



Woof, this is rough. All three t14 will give you a decent shot at biglaw, but you'd NEED biglaw to pay off all of that debt. Then again, 80k isn't nothing either, and Emory gives you a bigger shot of striking out and not being able to service your debt at all. Plus, retake is terrible advice here since you're a super splitter.

If you absolutely, ABSOLUTELY know you want to go to law school and that nothing else in this world would leave you fulfilled, I would choose UVA if you want DC/Atlanta or Penn if you want NYC.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby Phyllis Stein » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:51 am

SweetTort wrote:Woof, this is rough. All three t14 will give you a decent shot at biglaw, but you'd NEED biglaw to pay off all of that debt. Then again, 80k isn't nothing either, and Emory gives you a bigger shot of striking out and not being able to service your debt at all. Plus, retake is terrible advice here since you're a super splitter.

If you absolutely, ABSOLUTELY know you want to go to law school and that nothing else in this world would leave you fulfilled, I would choose UVA if you want DC/Atlanta or Penn if you want NYC.


I don't really want to go back to NY/NJ if I can help it, so maybe that means Penn is out? BigLaw isn't something I necessarily want to do, but will if that's the only way to pay off the debt. However, Mich and UVAs LRAPs don't leave me convinced that I have to go into BL if I'm ok with 10 years of debt.

And yes,I came to the conclusion of law after years of trying not to want law, then eventually giving in and working at an internship for a year at a PI law firm that was essentially paralegal work (I don't want to specify, in case it'll make me too identifiable if that's ok.)

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby Npret » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:05 am

Phyllis Stein wrote:
SweetTort wrote:Woof, this is rough. All three t14 will give you a decent shot at biglaw, but you'd NEED biglaw to pay off all of that debt. Then again, 80k isn't nothing either, and Emory gives you a bigger shot of striking out and not being able to service your debt at all. Plus, retake is terrible advice here since you're a super splitter.

If you absolutely, ABSOLUTELY know you want to go to law school and that nothing else in this world would leave you fulfilled, I would choose UVA if you want DC/Atlanta or Penn if you want NYC.


I don't really want to go back to NY/NJ if I can help it, so maybe that means Penn is out? BigLaw isn't something I necessarily want to do, but will if that's the only way to pay off the debt. However, Mich and UVAs LRAPs don't leave me convinced that I have to go into BL if I'm ok with 10 years of debt.

And yes,I came to the conclusion of law after years of trying not to want law, then eventually giving in and working at an internship for a year at a PI law firm that was essentially paralegal work (I don't want to specify, in case it'll make me too identifiable if that's ok.)


It's essential that you understand each schools LRAP and how it will work if loan forgiveness is changed.

Go to the school that will give you the best LRAP, that's the only way to realistically go to any of these schools for this much debt.

You need to gun for PI, imo, if that's what you want.

If you go another route just know that the 10 year standard repayment plan is $3616 a month for $300,000 of debt. I'm not sure how to do this even on biglaw. You don't even want biglaw so it would be stupid to dig yourself into debt for a career you don't want. The great majority of biglaw jobs are in NY, so you are hurting yourself if you don't want to live here.

Personally I think you should find another career and volunteer with whatever organization you want to help. It's just too much debt to burden yourself with for basically the rest of your life.

Or maybe go to Emory. I missed that from your original post.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby 20170322 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:10 pm

Wait, what about living with family in Atlanta? That would cut COA to like 40k, and at that point I think Emory wins out.

Phyllis Stein

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby Phyllis Stein » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:22 pm

SweetTort wrote:Wait, what about living with family in Atlanta? That would cut COA to like 40k, and at that point I think Emory wins out.


These are the numbers if family says no to me living with them (which is still VERY possible). Otherwise yeah, I'm pretty sure I agree. Mostly I am just worried about not being able to land the PI job with an Emory degree? I think I may just be reading too many tls prestige-centric posts?

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory $$$ (v Penn?)

Postby Npret » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:00 pm

So I asked in the student loan thread and the answer was that people do pay $4000 a month from biglaw and then go on PAYE when they leave.

I couldn't do that but I was wrong to say it was impossible.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=220025&p=9840724#p9840615

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory $$$ (v Penn?)

Postby Phyllis Stein » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:14 pm

Npret wrote:So I asked in the student loan thread and the answer was that people do pay $4000 a month from biglaw and then go on PAYE when they leave.

I couldn't do that but I was wrong to say it was impossible.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=220025&p=9840724#p9840615


Thank you, that was really helpful. I also appreciate the other responses to my problem in the thread you linked.

I think I'm mostly just downtrodden because it's not like the standard "retake" advice is really a thing here. I don't think improving by even those last 4 points will bring in the money. I know I'm just as good/smart as those who will definitely be attending the t10 schools with money, but nothing can change my GPA 4 years out of UG.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory $$$ (v Penn?)

Postby Npret » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:32 pm

Phyllis Stein wrote:
Npret wrote:So I asked in the student loan thread and the answer was that people do pay $4000 a month from biglaw and then go on PAYE when they leave.

I couldn't do that but I was wrong to say it was impossible.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=220025&p=9840724#p9840615


Thank you, that was really helpful. I also appreciate the other responses to my problem in the thread you linked.

I think I'm mostly just downtrodden because it's not like the standard "retake" advice is really a thing here. I don't think improving by even those last 4 points will bring in the money. I know I'm just as good/smart as those who will definitely be attending the t10 schools with money, but nothing can change my GPA 4 years out of UG.


Yes. Maybe some things could improve your application. Did you ask for advice in the MS9 thread? I don't know maybe you would need to be an Olympic athlete to overcome that GPA. It might be useful to know if they think you could improve your current outcomes.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=197451

My advice is to not get sucked into biglaw if you truly want PI. But plenty of students think they want PI and end up going for the money so you wouldn't be alone if you changed your mind.

I don't know about PI hiring but there are threads on it here and people you can ask about the true prestige level required.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory $$$ (v Penn?)

Postby S.Picquery » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:34 pm

Tag.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby albanach » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:52 pm

Phyllis Stein wrote:
I don't really want to go back to NY/NJ if I can help it, so maybe that means Penn is out? BigLaw isn't something I necessarily want to do, but will if that's the only way to pay off the debt. However, Mich and UVAs LRAPs don't leave me convinced that I have to go into BL if I'm ok with 10 years of debt.

And yes,I came to the conclusion of law after years of trying not to want law, then eventually giving in and working at an internship for a year at a PI law firm that was essentially paralegal work (I don't want to specify, in case it'll make me too identifiable if that's ok.)


I think, but may be wrong, that UVAs LRAP pays your PAYE contribution. If PSLF is abolished, that could be a problem. Also, check if a spouse's income would be considered - otherwise you may also be forced to delay marriage for a decade post-graduation.

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory (v Penn?)

Postby S.Picquery » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:17 pm

albanach wrote:
Phyllis Stein wrote:
I don't really want to go back to NY/NJ if I can help it, so maybe that means Penn is out? BigLaw isn't something I necessarily want to do, but will if that's the only way to pay off the debt. However, Mich and UVAs LRAPs don't leave me convinced that I have to go into BL if I'm ok with 10 years of debt.

And yes,I came to the conclusion of law after years of trying not to want law, then eventually giving in and working at an internship for a year at a PI law firm that was essentially paralegal work (I don't want to specify, in case it'll make me too identifiable if that's ok.)


I think, but may be wrong, that UVAs LRAP pays your PAYE contribution. If PSLF is abolished, that could be a problem. Also, check if a spouse's income would be considered - otherwise you may also be forced to delay marriage for a decade post-graduation.


I know that UVA's LRAP does take spousal income into account if their income exceeds yours.

The program adjusted income (PAI) of married participants is adjusted to include the spouse’s income only if the spouse has a
higher PAI than the program participant. For married participants, PAI is defined as the higher of (1) the
participant’s PAI or (2) one-half of the combined PAIs of the participant and the spouse. A spouse’s PAI is
also determined by the annual income reported on the VLFP II application. Taxable and non-taxable
income may be included in the calculation depending on the source. Spouse PAI also excludes an
amount equal to the spouse’s annual loan payments for graduate school loan debt reported on the VLFP
II application.

Phyllis Stein

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Re: UVA v Mich v Emory $$$

Postby Phyllis Stein » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:26 pm

Npret wrote:My advice is to not get sucked into biglaw if you truly want PI. But plenty of students think they want PI and end up going for the money so you wouldn't be alone if you changed your mind.

This is probably my biggest worry. I am definitely overthinking things, but I think I also have a healthy dose of fear here. Being in debt for 10 years with LRAP is scary (especially with the uncertainty of its longevity), and being in debt without it is also scary even if I land Big Law (assuming I'm one of those who do change their mind).

The problem is I don't want to assume I'm a special snowflake who will never waiver. I'm legitimately worried.



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