ND vs Michigan Forum

[Euphegenia Doubtfire]

Michigan (45k total scholarship) vs ND (105k scholarship)

I can't imagine COL is going to be a deciding factor between South Bend and Ann Arbor
Financing through loans
From Chicago, probably want to stay in the midwest
Not coming into this with a set career goal, interested/open to various areas
No retake suggestions please
Debt averse, like ND's Catholic foundation, but also really liked/was impressed by MI after visiting for ASW.

So basically, is MI worth the extra cost? Obviously, MI is ranked higher but they both have great Alumni networks and Notre Dame does do better than its ranking in a lot of areas.

[Ricky-Bobby]

Total COA? LSAT/GPA?

[Euphegenia Doubtfire]

Total COA? LSAT/GPA?

COA very roughly 80-90k vs 150k.

And as far as LSAT/GPA, really- I'm not retaking.

[Nomo]

Total COA? LSAT/GPA?

COA very roughly 80-90k vs 150k.

And as far as LSAT/GPA, really- I'm not retaking.

Those COA numbers don't sound right. Did you use the spreadsheet here or the calculator on LST? Those should work pretty good.

Can you expound a little more on your career goals? Its ok not to know exactly what you want to do; but maybe you have some idea of whether you're interested in litigation or transactional work; if the money is worth the hours and grind of biglaw; if you've got a basic background in any area like tax, bankruptcy, finance, hard sciences, or the environment that you'd like to continue pursuing. Maybe you want to be in court all the time; or maybe you want to be in an office by yourself. Do you want to have lots of contact with clients who are individual people with problems or would you prefer corporate clients who just hand matters over to you?

If those COA number are accurate then either choice could be good for someone with particular career goals; but bad for someone with different career goals. Its hard to advise you without knowing more about those goals. If you know yourself well you should have some idea of what types of work do and do not attract you.

If you can't figure out what types of work you might be more or less interested in then I highly recommend sitting this year out, and reapplying when you learn a little more about yourself.

[Ricky-Bobby]

Nomo sounds right on the money.

Have you tried negotiating with Michigan? You're at one of the top scholarship levels for ND, so I have a feeling your numbers could pull more out of Michigan.

[californiauser]

Did you apply to Illinois? Seems like you might be in full ride contention there -- that would be a better option than these two at these prices

Michigan with 45k is around 200k coa

[lecsa]

Cost seems high for both.

That said, I wouldn't pay a dime to attend ND or any non-T14 school so ND is a worse choice in my opinion.

[HP5450]

Michigan, and I don't know how it's close. There is nowhere in the country a ND degree does better than a Michigan degree. Michigan is worth financing $160,000ish. ND isn't worth the risk.

[ZGr88n]

I would make sure to calculate out the right COAs before making a decision because that Michigan number is WAY off, it's closer to 200k, that interests is killer.

[Dafaq]

Think of it as paying $500 (more like $700 gross) every month for the next ten years. If the two schools were widely apart in stats and opportunities, then maybe….. but they’re not. This isn’t even a close call.

I might pay $500 more for Columbia over Michigan, but no, not Michigan over Notre Dame.

[jingosaur]

I might pay $500 more for Columbia over Michigan, but no, not Michigan over Notre Dame.

Do you mean the other way around? For the midwest, Columbia and Michigan are not that far apart whereas Michigan and Notre Dame have very different employment outcomes with respect to the middle of the class. Median at Michigan gives you a good chance at Biglaw whereas median at Notre Dame will give you very limited options.

OP, try to negotiate with Michigan with the ND offer to see if they give you more money and if they don't give you any additional money, go anyway.

[Dafaq]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

[jk148706]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

Oh no

[lecsa]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

ND has a higher percentage employed by the school.

Also Mich placed 57.1 percent into biglaw and fed clerk while ND placed 33.7 percent.

OP shouldn't pay over 100k for Notre Dame like he' d have to here.

[jingosaur]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

Are you one of those people who thinks that GW is a better law school than Georgetown?

[Dafaq]

One of those people who thinks tossing away $60K for a questionably slight advantage is a really bad idea.

[yossarian]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

ND has a higher percentage employed by the school.

Also Mich placed 57.1 percent into biglaw and fed clerk while ND placed 33.7 percent.

OP shouldn't pay over 100k for Notre Dame like he' d have to here.

Ah. The arbitrary 100k limit argument.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Michigan (employ 82%, 13.5% under) and Columbia (95% employ, 1.5% under) are leagues apart. Whereas NDame (employ 71.2%, under 11.4%) is nearly identical to Mich. Certainly not worth paying an extra $500 a week for years to come. This is an ez call.

For anyone reading this thread who doesn't already know, Michigan is actually closer to Columbia than it is to ND in biglaw + fed clerk placement (78 - 57 - 33).

Try trolling harder next time

[jk148706]

One of those people who thinks tossing away $60K for a questionably slight advantage is a really bad idea.

Lol slight advantage

[BigZuck]

Both schools look like they are too expensive. Retake.

[Saddle Up]

Michigan (45k total scholarship) vs ND (105k scholarship)

Why didn't you apply to any of the better T14 schools?

[UMich11]

Michigan, and I don't know how it's close. There is nowhere in the country a ND degree does better than a Michigan degree. Michigan is worth financing $160,000ish. ND isn't worth the risk.

I'd disagree with this statement. As far as recognition and reputation, top 40-35% at ND will carry some substantial weight at BigLaw - most of the big law firms are coming to ND this year and the network pays off for 1L jobs as well. The ND name is still as recognizable and trusted as the Michigan name.

OP - another consideration for ND is think about applying to be an Assistant Rector your 2L/3L years at ND - they cover cost of living; pay for 1, 3credit class/semester; and pay 7k stipend/semester. That will bump you to a near full ride your 2L/3L year. meaning your total debt will amount to <40k - payable in 1 year or less with a SA job.

On the other hand, at Michigan consider the GSI position in one of the undergrad colleges. if you meet a certain threshold, they cover your tuition in full for the semester you work and pay you a stipend over 6-7k. But that is a per semester basis and only 5% of the law school seems to be a GSI at any point in time. I'm thinking of the transfer to UMich and was offered the GSI spot the first go around, but wasn't aware how beneficial the pay-scheme was. If i can land the GSI spot this time I may make the jump.

[BigZuck]

Michigan, and I don't know how it's close. There is nowhere in the country a ND degree does better than a Michigan degree. Michigan is worth financing $160,000ish. ND isn't worth the risk.

I'd disagree with this statement. As far as recognition and reputation, top 40-35% at ND will carry some substantial weight at BigLaw - most of the big law firms are coming to ND this year and the network pays off for 1L jobs as well. The ND name is still as recognizable and trusted as the Michigan name.

OP - another consideration for ND is think about applying to be an Assistant Rector your 2L/3L years at ND - they cover cost of living; pay for 1, 3credit class/semester; and pay 7k stipend/semester. That will bump you to a near full ride your 2L/3L year. meaning your total debt will amount to <40k - payable in 1 year or less with a SA job.

On the other hand, at Michigan consider the GSI position in one of the undergrad colleges. if you meet a certain threshold, they cover your tuition in full for the semester you work and pay you a stipend over 6-7k. But that is a per semester basis and only 5% of the law school seems to be a GSI at any point in time. I'm thinking of the transfer to UMich and was offered the GSI spot the first go around, but wasn't aware how beneficial the pay-scheme was. If i can land the GSI spot this time I may make the jump.

This has to be a joke. If ND's big law placement power was so good, they would place more kids in big law. Stop trolling dawg.

[ndirish2010]

Michigan.

[yossarian]

BigZuck, I mean they're 100+ number is 28.3% Add that to a high fed clerkship rate and I would say that 30% could've gotten biglaw is a conservative number. (Getting close to 35 I guess, but that is still an overestimation). But, I mean this isn't market paying biglaw. Only 15% in 500+ firms.

They're 2L class is reporting even higher numbers of SAs. But that obviously should be taken with a grain of salt.