USC (40k/year Scholly) vs. Gtown (10k/year Dean Grant) Forum

[yafosho]

3.17 - 164 - URM
Hometown: Seattle
Desired Law Specialty: IP (I do not have a science degree, it is the field of law I am most interested in)
Desired post Grad Loc: California or Washington
*Still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, NYU and UCLA but because it is so late in the application process I'm expecting Denials at these and at the very least minimal or no scholarship money.

~ Choices~
Georgetown:
Scholarship: 10k/year (Dean's Grant)
Loan Debt at Grad: 210k

USC:
Scholarship: 40k/year
Loan Debt at Grad: 125k

I would love the security of Gtown as I believe them to be the more prestigious of the two (as discussed in this thread >>http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =227922but). But it is tough to really appreciate the difference between USC's $1,500 in monthly loan payments (assuming I had a post graduations salary of 70k) and Gtown's $2,500 in monthly loan payments I would have to make upon graduating, when I have no idea what my employment/life will be like upon graduation.

So while I know the decision goes far beyond just total cost or employment stats and involves numerous unknowns as well as dependencies on the type of work and life I would have after graduating, this is what it has really boiled down to between these two schools. So if you were in my shoes (in school location, post grad employment region, post grad employment job types, and law specialties, both schools are more or less equal to me so the 2 main factors remaining are cost and employment prospects) how would you weigh these factors? Also, do you think 210k is the type of debt that would be entirely crippling or manageable to a certain extent (under conditions where you can feed yourself and a spouse after graduating and not have to just join the Nights Watch or something). Thanks for the advice guys.

[ManoftheHour]

....what? How did you get these numbers? You're telling me that you are getting $40,000 a year from USC and will have $210,000 debt by the time you graduate? Wtf are you going to be taking out those loans for?

Edited: Reread your post. Dude, you have the total COA mixed up for the two schools.

[twenty]

Assuming your total debt numbers are reversed, (and you're actually IP eligible) I'd say fuck it and do GULC. This is probably a bad metric to use, but figure your likelihood of getting a market-paying IP gig out of USC is about 65% and about 80%+ out of GULC. Equally appreciating that IP biglaw is, while terrible, probably not as terrible as traditional biglaw when it comes to hours (if only because you'll probably end up in Washington or NorCal) or the patent office.

This is also primarily because for your goals, 125k from USC seems really just too high.

[Nomo]

Assuming the COA's are reversed:

I think both of these are hard to justify, but for IP I guess they are ok if you've got the background to do IP (meaning you have a degree in science and can pass the patent bar). I'd lean towards USC because if biglaw doesn't work out at Georgetown with 210k of debt you're really really screwed.

[jbagelboy]

Assuming your total debt numbers are reversed, (and you're actually IP eligible) I'd say fuck it and do GULC. This is probably a bad metric to use, but figure your likelihood of getting a market-paying IP gig out of USC is about 65% and about 80%+ out of GULC. Equally appreciating that IP biglaw is, while terrible, probably not as terrible as traditional biglaw when it comes to hours (if only because you'll probably end up in Washington or NorCal) or the patent office.

This is also primarily because for your goals, 125k from USC seems really just too high.

How do we know OP is patent secure. I didn't see any patent credentials referenced other than an interest in ip law. General IP lit outside of patents, to the extent it exists, is just as competitive as any other biglaw. So then the percentages are more like a coin toss at GULC and 30-35% at USC. Not sure how to quantify the URM in that.

[twenty]

Assuming your total debt numbers are reversed, (and you're actually IP eligible) I'd say fuck it and do GULC. This is probably a bad metric to use, but figure your likelihood of getting a market-paying IP gig out of USC is about 65% and about 80%+ out of GULC. Equally appreciating that IP biglaw is, while terrible, probably not as terrible as traditional biglaw when it comes to hours (if only because you'll probably end up in Washington or NorCal) or the patent office.

This is also primarily because for your goals, 125k from USC seems really just too high.

How do we know OP is patent secure. I didn't see any patent credentials referenced other than an interest in ip law.

That's why I explicitly say I'm assuming "you're actually IP eligible." Otherwise retake is unquestioningly TCR.

[jbagelboy]

Assuming your total debt numbers are reversed, (and you're actually IP eligible) I'd say fuck it and do GULC. This is probably a bad metric to use, but figure your likelihood of getting a market-paying IP gig out of USC is about 65% and about 80%+ out of GULC. Equally appreciating that IP biglaw is, while terrible, probably not as terrible as traditional biglaw when it comes to hours (if only because you'll probably end up in Washington or NorCal) or the patent office.

This is also primarily because for your goals, 125k from USC seems really just too high.

How do we know OP is patent secure. I didn't see any patent credentials referenced other than an interest in ip law.

That's why I explicitly say I'm assuming "you're actually IP eligible." Otherwise retake is unquestioningly TCR.

Sry

[hcrimson2014]

OP is an IP eligible URM, he will be very desirable to the law firms since I doubt of the 50,000 jd graduates every year, there will be more than 50 with OP's credentials who are also URM. Even if he were to attend USC, a school right in the heartland of IP biglaw, his chance of securing his desired job will probably be very close or equivalent to GULC. So assuming that the loan numbers are inverted, OP should go to USC even if the cost is less than optimal, but it still beats throwing 200k+ at GULC.

[PrideandGlory1776]

USC

[EJL123]

Go to USC and enjoy the smaller class sizes.

You'll be competing too much with all the Georgetown grads.

[yafosho]

Edited, the numbers were switched thanks for the heads up.

That's why I explicitly say I'm assuming "you're actually IP eligible." Otherwise retake is unquestioningly TCR.

And no I do not have a science degree (I know everyone on here freaks out when they hear that about someone trying to go into IP law but its the field of law I find most interesting at the present so thats what I have in mind heading into Law school). Was your response suggesting I should "unquestionably" retake the lsats? that seems a bit drastic.

[twenty]

Was your response suggesting I should "unquestionably" retake the lsats? that seems a bit drastic.

You basically have three choices here, drastic or not.

On one hand, USC. USC will give you about a 1/3rd shot at getting biglaw. You won't absolutely need biglaw to pay off 125k, but you will be pretty miserable for ten years if you can't. LA is a hugely oversaturated market, and you will be lucky if you can find a shitlaw gig chasing ambulances for a partner making 50k a year. You will be very hard pressed getting back into Washington.

On the other hand, GULC. You absolutely need biglaw to pay this off. You do have a substantially better chance at getting biglaw from GULC rather than USC, but you're still looking at about 50/50, maybe marginally better. If you can't get biglaw from GULC, you will probably have to go on PAYE for the next twenty years. That said, considering your ties to Washington, you may be able to land a decent gig back there from GULC.

And, finally, retake. Your GPA sucks, but your LSAT isn't great either (which is good, because room for improvement!) Sitting this cycle out and coming back next year with a better score, even in the high 160s, will put you above median at schools like Cornell, GULC, etc. Since your cycle isn't bad for your numbers, a solid retake will definitely improve your standing in terms of scholarships and acceptances. Don't sell yourself short.

In order, Retake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (x10) GULC > (maybe equals) USC

[yafosho]

Was your response suggesting I should "unquestionably" retake the lsats? that seems a bit drastic.

You basically have three choices here, drastic or not.

On one hand, USC. USC will give you about a 1/3rd shot at getting biglaw. You won't absolutely need biglaw to pay off 125k, but you will be pretty miserable for ten years if you can't. LA is a hugely oversaturated market, and you will be lucky if you can find a shitlaw gig chasing ambulances for a partner making 50k a year. You will be very hard pressed getting back into Washington.

On the other hand, GULC. You absolutely need biglaw to pay this off. You do have a substantially better chance at getting biglaw from GULC rather than USC, but you're still looking at about 50/50, maybe marginally better. If you can't get biglaw from GULC, you will probably have to go on PAYE for the next twenty years. That said, considering your ties to Washington, you may be able to land a decent gig back there from GULC.

And, finally, retake. Your GPA sucks, but your LSAT isn't great either (which is good, because room for improvement!) Sitting this cycle out and coming back next year with a better score, even in the high 160s, will put you above median at schools like Cornell, GULC, etc. Since your cycle isn't bad for your numbers, a solid retake will definitely improve your standing in terms of scholarships and acceptances. Don't sell yourself short.

In order, Retake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (x10) GULC > (maybe equals) USC

Thanks for the advice, I hear what your saying but at this point I'm pretty set on enrolling this August (also 164 was pretty good for me). All things considered from what you've said it sounds like your suggesting USC between the two though. I am also slightly leaning USC. It doesn't seem like the Gtown opportunities are worth the 100k (after interest) difference in price between the schools and either way i'm gonna have to bust my ass to make it out of debt after law school so might as well bust my ass with less of a weight on my shoulders upon graduating.