Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake? Forum

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Best Option

ND; COA $145k
4
29%
IUB; COA $124k
0
No votes
Any T1 if COA dips below $100k
1
7%
Lower t14; sticker (should this become available)
2
14%
Retake
6
43%
Be a teacher and hate your life for the rest of your days
1
7%
 
Total votes: 14

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yossarian

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Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake?

Post by yossarian » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:05 pm

Alright. Let's start with my LSAT history.
June 2011: 162 (practice 2hrs/day for 2 months; PTing at 169-172 time of test)
Oct. 2011: 166 (practice for June plus 4 hrs/day from June to Oct; PTing at 174-177 time of test)
March 2014: 167 (just cold tested a re-diagnostic; first time I've looked at an LSAT in over 2 years)

Now, my application:
3.1, 166; strong to borderline unique softs (TFA, disabled, started nonprofit, published); strong writer

2013-2014 Cycle:
ND: COA $145,000
IU: COA $124,000
WUSTL: COA $201,000
GW: sticker
UChi: pending
UMich: WL
Cornell: pending
NU: pending
Vandy: pending

There is perhaps a bit more negotiating room at ND. WUSTL and GW could probably be negotiated significantly, though I doubt much below $150k COA. If UChi, UMich, Cornell, or NU become option, they will presumably all be at sticker.

Goals
I would like to work biglaw in Indianapolis for several years after graduation. While I have long-term government/policy goals, I feel practice would be beneficial to me for several reasons. It will give me an opportunity to build a business network in the city. It will give me a chance to pay off my loans, and it will be an opportunity to gain valuable experience, especially if I could get in the government and/or lobbying divisions of one of our local firms. Note: Market pay in Indy is $90-110k. Several midlaw/non NLJ firms pay that (or very close), and are well respected in the community. I would be happy with any of these options, not just traditional biglaw. That said, it looks like all the firms I would want to work at are hiring about 20 associates combined per year right now. Tops.

Concern w/ Retaking #1: Doesn't Really Seem to Give Me Much Better Options
I believe I could reasonably get a 173+ on a retake. In 2011, I didn't know how to study. I mostly just practiced, and I didn't know about TLS. Using the guides and really learning the test, I think I could reasonably expect a pretty solid outcome. Especially given my PTing 175+ in 2011. My weakest section back then was LG while I usually missed 0-2 on RC. So, in terms of learnability I would be golden.

However, running my numbers with a much better score doesn't seem to really do much for my chances.

Here is my current mylsn graph (2.9-3.2; 166):
Image

Here is a conservative projection (2.9-3.2; 170-173):
Image

Here is a best-case scenario projection (2.9-3.2; 174+):
Image

While my chances in the lower t14 do increase considerably, my opportunity for scholarship in the lower t14 doesn't seem to increase much. I see it giving me a small chance for pretty small scholarships at Mich or NU.

Concern w/ Retaking #2: $15k & 1 year opportunity cost
As a teacher, I put in too many hours to effectively study. If I am going to use my last retake, I only want to do it if I can truly devote ~20 hours/week for months. This means I'll need to leave my job for an hourly job. (I already have one arranged at a local law firm). The drop in pay will cost me approximately $15k compared to teaching (though still making money compared to spending it at law school). If I could greatly increase my scholarship opportunity, I wouldn't feel poorly about using another year of my twenties. But, this is a pretty large opportunity cost if a retake doesn't get me much.

Concern w/ Retaking #3: ND is Poised to Make it Rain
ND reevaluated their scholarship process, did away with their $25k/year cap, and gave me way more than I would've gotten last year. I am wondering if they still have a little money for me yet, and I am worried they will tighten up a bit next cycle as WUSTL did this cycle.

Concern w/ Retaking #4: Next Cycle May be More Competitive
With 170+ scores up and recent "good news" in law hiring, I'm afraid apps will be at best steady next cycle, maybe an increase. This means that if I get a 170+, I will be in at least as competitive, maybe a more competitive cycle.

Concern w/ a June Retake: Not Adequate Time
My students take important testing in May, and I'll be working my ass off until then. In addition, I am writing my master's thesis; presumably done first or second week of April.

Biggest Potential Reason I See to Retake: NU ED
The only opportunity I really see to get money at t14 school would be to ED Northwestern. My guess is to have a shot, I would need to be safely over their 75th LSAT (173ish?). Even then, I'd imagine they'd boot me to RD because of my low GPA. Even if they did let me in ED, there is no guarantee they'd run their $150k scholarship for ED program next cycle.

Conclusion
Unfortunately, I don't really see my outcomes being much better w/ a higher LSAT. I know none of my options are great right now, but I am thinking my best option is to try to get ND below $130 COA and go. A note about IUB v. ND. Since I want to stay in Indy, IUB is an option. However, I see it giving me about a 10% shot at my desired outcome whereas ND gives maybe a 25% shot at this outcome. I know neither is great, but it looks as though median at ND still gives me a decent shot at a paying JD-required job whereas median at IUB is much more dicey. So, the little extra for ND is worth it given the insurance and the increased shot at my preferred outcome. If IUB COA dips below $75k, maybe that changes. I am not extremely debt averse, but it doesn't seem that paying sticker debt at Indy biglaw salary is even possible. So, I am trying to decide what I would pay to go to Mich, Cornell, or NU... I'm thinking $180k tops? I don't know, and it is not likely these become options even at sticker.

tl;dr: I don't see retaking as increasing my options or scholarship, so I am leaning toward ND this cycle. Curious to see if others see retaking differently.

Thanks for the help.
Last edited by yossarian on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PrideandGlory1776

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Re: Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake?

Post by PrideandGlory1776 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:11 pm

Looks like your very well informed and know exactly what needs to be done I don't think much more needs to be said other than good luck, study hard and reapply next year.

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yossarian

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Re: Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake?

Post by yossarian » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:13 pm

PrideandGlory1776 wrote:Looks like your very well informed and know exactly what needs to be done I don't think much more needs to be said other than good luck, study hard and reapply next year.
Thanks for reading through and commenting, but the conclusion I came to was that retaking wouldn't greatly increase my options. I'm leaning toward going to ND this cycle.

0913djp

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Re: Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake?

Post by 0913djp » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:04 pm

I think retaking and EDing NU is TCR here, or if getting a full-ride to ND or IU is also possible. But NU loves TFA and obviously the $50K a year is a great look.

Look at other law schools with TFA partnership/forgiveness/etc. (Georgetown? Chicago?).

Hope this helps.

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yossarian

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Re: Chum to the Sharks: Should I Retake?

Post by yossarian » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:09 pm

0913djp wrote:I think retaking and EDing NU is TCR here, or if getting a full-ride to ND or IU is also possible. But NU loves TFA and obviously the $50K a year is a great look.

Look at other law schools with TFA partnership/forgiveness/etc. (Georgetown? Chicago?).

Hope this helps.
Yeah, thanks! I really appreciate the help. Do people really think
(1) NU will have the $150k ED next year?
(2) NU would accept me ED? I really think they'd just push me to RD w/ my GPA. But mylsn doesn't have info on this.

ETA: Could those of you advocating for a retake post your reasons why? I feel like I did a decent job indicating there is little potential value in a retake. I'm really curious as to why y'all think it would be valuable.

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