UF Law v. FSU Law Forum

[californiauser]

When someone asks for advice picking between 2 schools the correct answer is not they both suck. That's not advice; that's trolling. I've read your posts on other boards... talking about how wonderful Baylor (Tier 2 at #51) is. The reality is that both UF and FSU are great schools for Floridians whose goal is practicing law in Florida. I have no interest in leaving FL and don't care if by going to UF I can't practice in NYC, DC, or Texas, nor did I ever seek the opinion from anyone not from, living in, or practicing law in FL.

I disagree with this. Usually the correct answer is to retake. These schools are not "great" by any stretch of the imagination, they're just less bad than most other options. Any school putting less than 75% of its graduates in JD required job is not great.

You have around 50% of becoming a lawyer out of UF, the state flagship. That's pretty bad for the "best" school in its state.

[toshiroh]

When someone asks for advice picking between 2 schools the correct answer is not they both suck. That's not advice; that's trolling. I've read your posts on other boards... talking about how wonderful Baylor (Tier 2 at #51) is. The reality is that both UF and FSU are great schools for Floridians whose goal is practicing law in Florida. I have no interest in leaving FL and don't care if by going to UF I can't practice in NYC, DC, or Texas, nor did I ever seek the opinion from anyone not from, living in, or practicing law in FL.

I disagree with this. Usually the correct answer is to retake. These schools are not "great" by any stretch of the imagination, they're just less bad than most other options. Any school putting less than 75% of its graduates in JD required job is not great.

You have around 50% of becoming a lawyer out of UF, the state flagship. That's pretty bad for the "best" school in its state.

Yeah and I disagree with this. The correct answer isn't always retake, because retaking isn't always an option. If someone wants to go to school in Florida... these are their two best options.... and maybe Miami with significant money.

[Roberrrrto]

+1

I hope to god after I graduate I don't spend my time commenting on TLS...

+1

[TheSpanishMain]

Yeah and I disagree with this. The correct answer isn't always retake, because retaking isn't always an option. If someone wants to go to school in Florida... these are their two best options.... and maybe Miami with significant money.

I think his point is that something can be the best, relative to other options, and still not great.

To the extent that I have an opinion on this, I think UF/FSU are fine with a sufficiently low COA.

[phireblast]

I love my home state and am totally cool with going to either UF or FSU even if some miserable elitist says it sucks.

[Nomo]

I love my home state and am totally cool with going to either UF or FSU even if some miserable elitist says it sucks.

No one is trying to say FSU or UF sucks. I'm sure the students are smart cool people. I'm sure the professors are all very bright. The problem is that for either school you're talking about spending a lot of money on a professional education when there is a very serious chance that there is no job at the end of it. And the jobs that are out there don't pay much compared to the cost of school.

All we're really saying is FSU and UF are overpriced. I think sticker price tuition should be less than 10k. Sticker price at Michigan, UCLA, Duke, etc. is also more than double what it really should be.

[sublime]

..

[toshiroh]

When someone asks for advice picking between 2 schools the correct answer is not they both suck. That's not advice; that's trolling. I've read your posts on other boards... talking about how wonderful Baylor (Tier 2 at #51) is. The reality is that both UF and FSU are great schools for Floridians whose goal is practicing law in Florida. I have no interest in leaving FL and don't care if by going to UF I can't practice in NYC, DC, or Texas, nor did I ever seek the opinion from anyone not from, living in, or practicing law in FL.

I disagree with this. Usually the correct answer is to retake. These schools are not "great" by any stretch of the imagination, they're just less bad than most other options. Any school putting less than 75% of its graduates in JD required job is not great.

You have around 50% of becoming a lawyer out of UF, the state flagship. That's pretty bad for the "best" school in its state.

But didn't you hear!?!? FSU is the best school in the state now.

Why is everybody getting upset? If you want biglaw, don't go to either. If you want gov't work in FL, FSU for free ish is straight. If you want shitlaw in FL, UF for free ish is straight. Why are we still talking about this?

Uh oh. End the convo now... Jesus/Allah/and any other you can think of has stated his almighty facts.. end thread.

[SailorMoon9543]

Does anyone know where I can access employment stats for FSU Law that has a breakdown of salary by law firm size (e.g., solo, 1-10, 11-50)? I'm trying to compare to UF...

[SailorMoon9543]

Does anyone know where I can access employment stats for FSU Law that has a breakdown of salary by law firm size (e.g., solo, 1-10, 11-50)? I'm trying to compare to UF...

Never mind! Found it in NALP data...

[sublime]

..

[phireblast]

I love my home state and am totally cool with going to either UF or FSU even if some miserable elitist says it sucks.

No one is trying to say FSU or UF sucks. I'm sure the students are smart cool people. I'm sure the professors are all very bright. The problem is that for either school you're talking about spending a lot of money on a professional education when there is a very serious chance that there is no job at the end of it. And the jobs that are out there don't pay much compared to the cost of school.

All we're really saying is FSU and UF are overpriced. I think sticker price tuition should be less than 10k. Sticker price at Michigan, UCLA, Duke, etc. is also more than double what it really should be.

And what makes you think at this point (after all, we are TLSers...) we don't already understand this argument and the gamble we are undertaking?

[Nomo]

I love my home state and am totally cool with going to either UF or FSU even if some miserable elitist says it sucks.

No one is trying to say FSU or UF sucks. I'm sure the students are smart cool people. I'm sure the professors are all very bright. The problem is that for either school you're talking about spending a lot of money on a professional education when there is a very serious chance that there is no job at the end of it. And the jobs that are out there don't pay much compared to the cost of school.

All we're really saying is FSU and UF are overpriced. I think sticker price tuition should be less than 10k. Sticker price at Michigan, UCLA, Duke, etc. is also more than double what it really should be.

And what makes you think at this point (after all, we are TLSers...) we don't already understand this argument and the gamble we are undertaking?

Well, we know so many people that heard all the facts, believed the gamble would pay off, and regretted everything later. Most have a hard time understanding the despair unemployed and underemployed lawyers experience when its presented in the abstract on a message board.

But, I'm not trying to say you don't get the argument. I'm just trying to say the reason we make the argument isn't because we are "elitists." We understand how talented and hardworking UF and FSU students are. We sincerely don't want them to throw their lives down the drain by going to law school.

[californiauser]

I love my home state and am totally cool with going to either UF or FSU even if some miserable elitist says it sucks.

No one is trying to say FSU or UF sucks. I'm sure the students are smart cool people. I'm sure the professors are all very bright. The problem is that for either school you're talking about spending a lot of money on a professional education when there is a very serious chance that there is no job at the end of it. And the jobs that are out there don't pay much compared to the cost of school.

All we're really saying is FSU and UF are overpriced. I think sticker price tuition should be less than 10k. Sticker price at Michigan, UCLA, Duke, etc. is also more than double what it really should be.

And what makes you think at this point (after all, we are TLSers...) we don't already understand this argument and the gamble we are undertaking?

because if the people on here who are deciding between TTTs (not so much FSU and UF) knew people irl who were working sh*t law for 35k a year with 100k+ loans, they wouldn't settle for schools with 50% employment rates

it's one thing to read employment percentages online, it's another to know people who will probably be in debt until 60 years old groveling for dui cases and traffic violations

[Roberrrrto]

Hi TLSers. I know this thread hasn't had any activity but I wanted to offer a conclusion based on what I've learned regarding this argument in the hope it will benefit TLSers in the future who will no doubt Google "UF Law v. FSU Law".

When choosing between the two cities, Tallahassee wins hands down. There are more law firms, a vibrant downtown, it's the capital of Florida, has the Florida Supreme Court, and an appeals court. I have no doubt that I would be happier living in Tallahassee and going to FSU Law.

According to US News, the schools are virtually the same.

Yet, when I spoke to practicing attorneys, UF reigns supreme and in their minds it is not even close. One attorney at a large firm in Miami on Brickell (South Florida's Wall St. wannabe) told me that FSU accepts a large amount of transfer students skewing their numbers for rankings purposes and everyone knows about it. A partner at a national firm in Ft. Lauderdale told me UF was better "for sure". 2 attorneys at large firms in WPB told me UF by far. Most telling is that when I went to a lawyers function at court house in South Florida, all the FSU Law grads there (I'd say 15-20% out of the attorneys) told me the schools were about the same while the UF Law grads (65%-75% of the attorneys present) told me UF was the best... period.

Essentially, if one has the option to choose between the 2, there is no reason to choose FSU over UF. The only exception would be state government, because even the ADAs I met (prosecutors) were 80% UF.

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Regardless of which school you choose (I of course chose UF), what happens in law school and professionally will come down to effort. Going to UF if one plans on practicing law in FL will put a good student in a great position to get a great job. As someone on a hiring committee for a large law firm told me, the first thing they look at is where you went to law school and second is how you did there. Good luck to all current and future TLSers!

[wat]

The "FSU accepts a large number of transfers" line honestly sounds like sour grapes from UF alumni.

Are FSU grads passing the bar? Are they getting jobs that require a JD? FSU is outperforming UF in both metrics over the past few years. If anything, the fact that they are accomplishing this with a large number of transfers (I have no idea of the percentage) who some apparently regard as "less qualified," only makes FSUs performance more impressive.

I don't dispute that UF enjoys greater prestige (in Florida, at least) but prestige is a lagging indicator. And lack of prestige is clearly not diminishing FSUs ability to get its grads to pass the bar and get jobs that require JDs.

[Ramius]

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Is UF particularly well regarded? This is an honest question, because I have never heard of UF as anything above an average state flagship. I'm not trying to openly defy what you're saying, I just found it odd to compare UF to ND for undergrad prestige.

[wat]

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Is UF particularly well regarded? This is an honest question, because I have never heard of UF as anything above an average state flagship. I'm not trying to openly defy what you're saying, I just found it odd to compare UF to ND for undergrad prestige.

Miami and UF are generally regarded as the top schools for undergrad, with FSU not far behind.

It seems like UF's lay prestige, among Floridians, grew significantly during the Urban Meyer (and Billy Donovan) era. I've often wondered if the same was true outside of Florida.

[wat]

PhpBB apparently replaces the "y" in the former Gator coaches name into "ij."

[Ramius]

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Is UF particularly well regarded? This is an honest question, because I have never heard of UF as anything above an average state flagship. I'm not trying to openly defy what you're saying, I just found it odd to compare UF to ND for undergrad prestige.

Miami and UF are generally regarded as the top schools for undergrad, with FSU not far behind.

It seems like UF's lay prestige, among Floridians, grew significantly during the Urban Meijer (and Billy Donovan) era. I've often wondered if the same was true outside of Florida.

Does that translate to academic prestige though? While ND certainly has cache with the football crowds (particularly those dreaming back to the glory days), it also carries with it a decently strong academic reputation on level with Duke, Georgetown, NYU, etc. I have never once in my life heard about UF in any sort of academic light. Success on the football field or basketball court does not equal academic preftige.

[wat]

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Is UF particularly well regarded? This is an honest question, because I have never heard of UF as anything above an average state flagship. I'm not trying to openly defy what you're saying, I just found it odd to compare UF to ND for undergrad prestige.

Miami and UF are generally regarded as the top schools for undergrad, with FSU not far behind.

It seems like UF's lay prestige, among Floridians, grew significantly during the Urban Meijer (and Billy Donovan) era. I've often wondered if the same was true outside of Florida.

Does that translate to academic prestige though? While ND certainly has cache with the football crowds (particularly those dreaming back to the glory days), it also carries with it a decently strong academic reputation on level with Duke, Georgetown, NYU, etc. I have never once in my life heard about UF in any sort of academic light. Success on the football field or basketball court does not equal academic preftige.

I agree.

That's why I keep qualifying my "prestige" comments with "in Florida." Floridians think UF is borderline ivy-league. I am not joking.

[Nucky]

UF's UG average incoming GPA is a 4.3.

Obviously, it isn't an Ivy but it's highly regarded in the region. The name may not carry much weight in Cali or NY but within state it is the holy grail, and with good reason.

[alansadler]

The undergrad reputation at UF really helps among non-attorneys (ie. potential clients). Much like at Notre Dame where the undergrad school's ranking far exceeds the law school ranking, the overall reputation benefits the law school and holders of its JD.

Is UF particularly well regarded? This is an honest question, because I have never heard of UF as anything above an average state flagship. I'm not trying to openly defy what you're saying, I just found it odd to compare UF to ND for undergrad prestige.

I have no opinions on the law schools, but the UF name definitely seems to carry a lot more weight than FSU in Florida.

[Nucky]

It's comparable to Texas in that you go to FSU if you don't get into UF(Generally speaking and not program specific). Much like UT and A&M. However, both are great schools and whether it's UG or LS I think both are great choices for the right price.

EDIT: in terms of LS, costs being equal, go to FSU for PI/Govt or go to UF for private practice. That's it.

[runinthefront]

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