Fordham Law School?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:52 am

I have been looking into Fordham. I really like it so far. I did notice it dropped quite a bit in the rankings. it was 29 last year and now it is 38! Can anyone explain why? I am still aiming for T14's, but I have read a lot of posters who really say aim for T14 and nothing else... My question is, how does Fordham hold up against Columbia and NYU. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area. They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking, and I live not too far away can take the cross town bus and be right there. So financially not having to pay for housing sounds great. i'm also looking into their part time program. I want to explore other things/have a job...etc.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:55 am

Chowfun wrote:I have been looking into Fordham. I really like it so far. I did notice it dropped quite a bit in the rankings. it was 29 last year and now it is 38! Can anyone explain why? I am still aiming for T14's, but I have read a lot of posters who really say aim for T14 and nothing else... My question is, how does Fordham hold up against Columbia and NYU. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area. They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking, and I live not too far away can take the cross town bus and be right there. So financially not having to pay for housing sounds great. i'm also looking into their part time program. I want to explore other things/have a job...etc.


Two things matter above all else if you're not independently wealthy: employment chances and total debt. Fordham's job placement is much worse than the T-14. If it's the best you can do, and you can keep your debt down by living at home and preferably also having some scholarship and/or working while going part time, it's not the worst option in the world.

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby mephistopheles » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:57 am

Chowfun wrote:They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking



key metric here

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:59 am

blsingindisguise wrote:
Chowfun wrote:I have been looking into Fordham. I really like it so far. I did notice it dropped quite a bit in the rankings. it was 29 last year and now it is 38! Can anyone explain why? I am still aiming for T14's, but I have read a lot of posters who really say aim for T14 and nothing else... My question is, how does Fordham hold up against Columbia and NYU. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area. They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking, and I live not too far away can take the cross town bus and be right there. So financially not having to pay for housing sounds great. i'm also looking into their part time program. I want to explore other things/have a job...etc.


Two things matter above all else if you're not independently wealthy: employment chances and total debt. Fordham's job placement is much worse than the T-14. If it's the best you can do, and you can keep your debt down by living at home and preferably also having some scholarship and/or working while going part time, it's not the worst option in the world.


Wow when you put it like that, it seems like it's either T14 or die (well not that extreme). I can live at home for Columbia and NYU too. I just feel like Fordham is a good back up, knock on wood. Damn, isn't it a solid school? I'll look into job placements. Despite not being anywhere near the T-14, are they still respectable?

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby mephistopheles » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:00 pm

Chowfun wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Chowfun wrote:I have been looking into Fordham. I really like it so far. I did notice it dropped quite a bit in the rankings. it was 29 last year and now it is 38! Can anyone explain why? I am still aiming for T14's, but I have read a lot of posters who really say aim for T14 and nothing else... My question is, how does Fordham hold up against Columbia and NYU. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area. They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking, and I live not too far away can take the cross town bus and be right there. So financially not having to pay for housing sounds great. i'm also looking into their part time program. I want to explore other things/have a job...etc.


Two things matter above all else if you're not independently wealthy: employment chances and total debt. Fordham's job placement is much worse than the T-14. If it's the best you can do, and you can keep your debt down by living at home and preferably also having some scholarship and/or working while going part time, it's not the worst option in the world.


Wow when you put it like that, it seems like it's either T14 or die (well not that extreme). I can live at home for Columbia and NYU too. I just feel like Fordham is a good back up, knock on wood. Damn, isn't it a solid school? I'll look into job placements. Despite not being anywhere near the T-14, are they still respectable?


outside of the context of job placement, define respectable

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:01 pm

mephistopheles wrote:
Chowfun wrote:They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking



key metric here


Yea I am thinking that this would boost their ranking when it comes time to measure their assessment next year. It looks really, really nice. Do you know why they fell so hard in the 2013 ranking?

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:04 pm

Chowfun wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:
Chowfun wrote:They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking



key metric here


Yea I am thinking that this would boost their ranking when it comes time to measure their assessment next year. It looks really, really nice. Do you know why they fell so hard in the 2013 ranking?

Probably because their placement is bad relative to their very high cost?

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:04 pm

mephistopheles wrote:
Chowfun wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Chowfun wrote:I have been looking into Fordham. I really like it so far. I did notice it dropped quite a bit in the rankings. it was 29 last year and now it is 38! Can anyone explain why? I am still aiming for T14's, but I have read a lot of posters who really say aim for T14 and nothing else... My question is, how does Fordham hold up against Columbia and NYU. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area. They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking, and I live not too far away can take the cross town bus and be right there. So financially not having to pay for housing sounds great. i'm also looking into their part time program. I want to explore other things/have a job...etc.


Two things matter above all else if you're not independently wealthy: employment chances and total debt. Fordham's job placement is much worse than the T-14. If it's the best you can do, and you can keep your debt down by living at home and preferably also having some scholarship and/or working while going part time, it's not the worst option in the world.


Wow when you put it like that, it seems like it's either T14 or die (well not that extreme). I can live at home for Columbia and NYU too. I just feel like Fordham is a good back up, knock on wood. Damn, isn't it a solid school? I'll look into job placements. Despite not being anywhere near the T-14, are they still respectable?


outside of the context of job placement, define respectable


Quality of education...how they stand against their peers, school selectivity.... but wehn I think about it...Job placement is one if not my top concern.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:09 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Chowfun wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:
Chowfun wrote:They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking



key metric here


Yea I am thinking that this would boost their ranking when it comes time to measure their assessment next year. It looks really, really nice. Do you know why they fell so hard in the 2013 ranking?

Probably because their placement is bad relative to their very high cost?



welp...looking at the data provided in this forum, it does seem not so good. I am assuming that high performance at Fordham will give me a better shot at getting employed, but not a guarantee. Poop.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:09 pm

Chowfun wrote:Quality of education...how they stand against their peers, school selectivity.... but wehn I think about it...Job placement is one if not my top concern.

Smart realization. Literally nothing else matters besides the cost and job placement. School choice should not relate to any other factor. Fordham is in a band of schools that has matriculants that are near identical to the lower T14 (we are talking a difference of 2-5 Lsat questions). At the same time, its big law placement is literally half or less than the lower T14. Retake until you get into the T14, or can go to a school for free. The problem is that schools in this band (e.g. Fordham/BC/BU/GWU) rarely give enough money that taking them over a lower T14 is a smart decision.

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby jk148706 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:10 pm

Chowfun wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:
Chowfun wrote:They are also getting a new building that's pretty nice looking



key metric here


Yea I am thinking that this would boost their ranking when it comes time to measure their assessment next year. It looks really, really nice. Do you know why they fell so hard in the 2013 ranking?


You should check out Cooley's library

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:11 pm

Also keep in mind Fordham is not even the third best school for NYC big law. Practically every T14 not in NY would be a better choice.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:17 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Chowfun wrote:Quality of education...how they stand against their peers, school selectivity.... but wehn I think about it...Job placement is one if not my top concern.

Smart realization. Literally nothing else matters besides the cost and job placement. School choice should not relate to any other factor. Fordham is in a band of schools that has matriculants that are near identical to the lower T14 (we are talking a difference of 2-5 Lsat questions). At the same time, its big law placement is literally half or less than the lower T14. Retake until you get into the T14, or can go to a school for free. The problem is that schools in this band (e.g. Fordham/BC/BU/GWU) rarely give enough money that taking them over a lower T14 is a smart decision.


smh... this is disheartening. the part time program at Fordham looked so appealing. NYU and Columbia don't offer that and I do not know the day in the life of a typical L1 is.

I really do want to attend NYU or Columbia...but woo with my stats.. I don't know. I'm not Eding to anywhere either. I also planned to do a dual degree and get my MBA... meh... so would you consider backup schools, or is this just a retake and try again system till you get into the most desired school thing?

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Chowfun wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
Chowfun wrote:Quality of education...how they stand against their peers, school selectivity.... but wehn I think about it...Job placement is one if not my top concern.

Smart realization. Literally nothing else matters besides the cost and job placement. School choice should not relate to any other factor. Fordham is in a band of schools that has matriculants that are near identical to the lower T14 (we are talking a difference of 2-5 Lsat questions). At the same time, its big law placement is literally half or less than the lower T14. Retake until you get into the T14, or can go to a school for free. The problem is that schools in this band (e.g. Fordham/BC/BU/GWU) rarely give enough money that taking them over a lower T14 is a smart decision.


smh... this is disheartening. the part time program at Fordham looked so appealing. NYU and Columbia don't offer that and I do not know the day in the life of a typical L1 is.

I really do want to attend NYU or Columbia...but woo with my stats.. I don't know. I'm not Eding to anywhere either. I also planned to do a dual degree and get my MBA... meh... so would you consider backup schools, or is this just a retake and try again system till you get into the most desired school thing?

Why would you be going part-time (as in, how high level is your full time job)? I definitely would not do the MBA regardless. A Fordham MBA is not elite by any means, and the value proposition of a JD/MBA is suspect unless both programs are elite (even then, some argue they are not worth it).
I would retake or go part time for a school you can go to for free. Fordham just does not seem to make sense.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:26 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Chowfun wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
Chowfun wrote:Quality of education...how they stand against their peers, school selectivity.... but wehn I think about it...Job placement is one if not my top concern.

Smart realization. Literally nothing else matters besides the cost and job placement. School choice should not relate to any other factor. Fordham is in a band of schools that has matriculants that are near identical to the lower T14 (we are talking a difference of 2-5 Lsat questions). At the same time, its big law placement is literally half or less than the lower T14. Retake until you get into the T14, or can go to a school for free. The problem is that schools in this band (e.g. Fordham/BC/BU/GWU) rarely give enough money that taking them over a lower T14 is a smart decision.


smh... this is disheartening. the part time program at Fordham looked so appealing. NYU and Columbia don't offer that and I do not know the day in the life of a typical L1 is.

I really do want to attend NYU or Columbia...but woo with my stats.. I don't know. I'm not Eding to anywhere either. I also planned to do a dual degree and get my MBA... meh... so would you consider backup schools, or is this just a retake and try again system till you get into the most desired school thing?

Why would you be going part-time (as in, how high level is your full time job)? I definitely would not do the MBA regardless. A Fordham MBA is not elite by any means, and the value proposition of a JD/MBA is suspect unless both programs are elite (even then, some argue they are not worth it).
I would retake or go part time for a school you can go to for free. Fordham just does not seem to make sense.


It's not high level what so ever. Actually part time was just a thought. It sprung up based on talking to other law school students. They told me that law school is so stressful and for them working while in law school was virtually impossible. They spent most of their time reading and etc. I thought part time would lessen work load/classes and I could work, but this was just a thought and when I saw Fordham hads part time I got excited.

Why are JD/MBA suspect and not worth it? I heard lawyers get more money when they have their MBA attached.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:29 pm

The thing is that within extremely wide bands, law schools are all the same. Think about it like a 5K. If you heard that your friend had come in 25 out of 200 runners, you'd think he did pretty well, right? But if your friend came in 25 out of 200, and the 50 runners behind him and 10 in front of him were only about 5 seconds apart, then you'd think a bit differently about how your friend fared in the race.

Similarly, "Tier 1" law schools are very similar in terms of the professors they hire, the types of courses, how the learning is conducted, the facilities, the internship opportunities, the alumni support, pretty much everything. That's why there are such wide swings in the rankings YOY. What matters are the employment statistics and the debt measured against what you want to do when you graduate. You need to be able to answer that final question before you apply.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:31 pm

Chowfun wrote:
Why are JD/MBA suspect and not worth it? I heard lawyers get more money when they have their MBA attached.


An MBA is not a plus or substitute for a lack of work experience, and law firms are not going to think it is attractive (i.e. it isn't going to compensate for not being able to get hired on grades/school). If you had a few years of WE in finance/consulting and wanted to do a JD/MBA for whatever reason, it would probably expand your options somewhat.

tachikara
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby tachikara » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:34 pm

You just need to spend a few days looking through posts on these forums. If you are looking to big law, which I presume you are, jd-mba makes no difference in salary. Otherwise, it really is just a combination of tuition costs + employment prospects + location + desired career path, all of which has been fleshed out on this forum before.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:54 pm

Thanks you guys. I will look through the forums.. and aim for the T14. I think I can replace Fordham with Cornell, but that's a knock on wood as well.

User avatar
Bronx Bum
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:02 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Bronx Bum » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:55 pm

I went and graduated. It was the worst decision I ever made in my entire life. There are some people who will get biglaw. For them, its good/ok I guess. If not, you are in a terrible position.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:02 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:I went and graduated. It was the worst decision I ever made in my entire life. There are some people who will get biglaw. For them, its good/ok I guess. If not, you are in a terrible position.



Waah your making me shake in my converses. lol I don't even really think I want to be a lawyer. It was a brain washing that my parents did or someone in my life did when I was a child. Now, @ 20 I've put a lot into it, and see no other course for me in life. I wanted to make money. I wanted to have a career. I wanted to feel fulfilled in life that I've done something career wise worthy of being proud. Now, it just seems silly and stupid. The market stinks, and it's not a gold mine for many people after I graduate, so I hear. I used to want to be an architect, but it is too late for that. I've been so set on one idea for so long... it feels silly to hop of the train now.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby NYstate » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:21 pm

Chowfun wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:I went and graduated. It was the worst decision I ever made in my entire life. There are some people who will get biglaw. For them, its good/ok I guess. If not, you are in a terrible position.



Waah your making me shake in my converses. lol I don't even really think I want to be a lawyer. It was a brain washing that my parents did or someone in my life did when I was a child. Now, @ 20 I've put a lot into it, and see no other course for me in life. I wanted to make money. I wanted to have a career. I wanted to feel fulfilled in life that I've done something career wise worthy of being proud. Now, it just seems silly and stupid. The market stinks, and it's not a gold mine for many people after I graduate, so I hear. I used to want to be an architect, but it is too late for that. I've been so set on one idea for so long... it feels silly to hop of the train now.


Spend a few bucks and read campos book- dont go to law school unless...
And read his old blog.

You don't a have good reason not to change your mind.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:45 pm

I'm not sure how you are only 20 years old and foreclosed from ever earning money in anything outside law ever. Head down to the registrar's office and switch your major.

Absolutely don't go to law school. It's not a path to some kind of white collar job where you wear a a suit and get paid 85K and benefits.

Chowfun
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 pm

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Chowfun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:48 pm

timbs4339 wrote:I'm not sure how you are only 20 years old and foreclosed from ever earning money in anything outside law ever. Head down to the registrar's office and switch your major.

Absolutely don't go to law school. It's not a path to some kind of white collar job where you wear a a suit and get paid 85K and benefits.


Hah! fat chance. I'm graduating this year. :( I feel locked in, because I've been so ingrained into law that I don't know what else to do with myself, but I know it's not what I truly want to do. I need to think about it, but I'm going to end up doing what all other idiots do, which is go to law school because they don't know what else to do. lol which isn't funny. I'm looking now trying to explore other options.

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby francesfarmer » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Chowfun wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:I'm not sure how you are only 20 years old and foreclosed from ever earning money in anything outside law ever. Head down to the registrar's office and switch your major.

Absolutely don't go to law school. It's not a path to some kind of white collar job where you wear a a suit and get paid 85K and benefits.


Hah! fat chance. I'm graduating this year. :( I feel locked in, because I've been so ingrained into law that I don't know what else to do with myself, but I know it's not what I truly want to do. I need to think about it, but I'm going to end up doing what all other idiots do, which is go to law school because they don't know what else to do. lol which isn't funny. I'm looking now trying to explore other options.


Don't go to law school. You're 20 years old. There are careers out there that you don't even know exist. Teach english in Korea. Work at a book shop. Fuck, become a nanny! Nannies make bank in the city. Reevaluate grad school when you're 24.

I graduated college at 20 and I am thankful every day that I did not rush into law school. Every single day.

(And not to suggest that you go to law school under any circumstances since you don't want to be a lawyer, but you would need to retake the LSAT to make it worthwhile.)




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1styearlateral, Google Adsense [Bot] and 4 guests