Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which should I choose?

Harvard Near-Sticker
170
54%
Texas Full Tuition and Fees
146
46%
 
Total votes: 316

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ajclark1992
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Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby ajclark1992 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:44 pm

I was just accepted off Harvard's waitlist. I have a scholarship that covers full tuition and fees at Texas.

I want to work BigLaw in Texas. That is for sure.
I have six-figure undergraduate debt (a little over $100,000 -- I know, what was I thinking?). I wouldn't characterize myself as overly debt-averse.
I have strong ties to Texas -- I was born there, graduated high school from there, and my parents live there.

What should I do?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 23, 2013 5:47 pm

I honestly don't know, but graduating with $270,000 of debt is freakishly scary... graduating with $370,000 is just unfathomable.

I know Harvard sends a lot of kids back to the best firms in Texas, but you could get those same jobs out of UT if you were top quarter.

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yarsten
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby yarsten » Thu May 23, 2013 5:56 pm

I had a similar situation but without the UG debt (I chose H, but got some serious need-based aid). I think the whole equation changes with that much debt. UT would be a pretty sweet deal- if you get a Biglaw SA you may come out with almost no new additional debt due to the cheap COL in Austin.

With Harvard you're just buying job security. How much is it worth to you?

fluffythepenguin
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby fluffythepenguin » Thu May 23, 2013 5:59 pm

Surely you'll get need-based aid, no? In which case you're looking at around 250k of debt from Harvard or ~125K from Texas. I'd take HLS here. You need biglaw no matter what, so why not (basically) guarantee it?

titan747
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby titan747 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:05 pm

4 letters... PAYE... Harvard it is

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sinfiery
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu May 23, 2013 6:07 pm

One person calculated the difference in missing biglaw and getting it at about $1,000,000. That plus lay prestige is the argument for Harvard, not a bad one imo.

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untar614
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby untar614 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:08 pm

With the ties to Texas you have, I'd say Harvard to all but guarantee yourself that Texas biglaw position, while at UT you'd need top grades for it. The debt sucks, but it sounds like you need to bank on a big payday regardless. This is unless I am the next person down on the waitlist at Harvard, in which case you should go to UT.

chillipepper
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby chillipepper » Thu May 23, 2013 6:16 pm

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=harvard&show=ABA

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas&show=ABA

501+ firms
Harvard =70%
Texas=37%

Formula. Add all people who are in firms and divide that by the amount of people in 501+ firms.

* These numbers are inflated a little because I did not take into account the unemployed seeking students (Harvard 14, Texas 13)

** Harvard probably even has a larger advantage if you assume fed clerkship= Big Law guaranteed.

Moral of the story, you need to decide yourself what premium you are willing to pay for a greater chance at big law.

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jkpolk
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jkpolk » Thu May 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Once you've made this decision you should never mention it again, especially if you go to UT

y2zipper
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby y2zipper » Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm

You have to take H here. Seriously. As someone pointed out, 100k of undergrad debt ( I don't know how that happens), means you need biglaw. Take Harvard and run.

rad lulz
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 23, 2013 6:28 pm

With 100k loans you don't have any business going into more debt for lawl skool right now (even going to UT will incur debt)

Unless you plan to rely on 20 year PAYE

If they fix the tax bomb it's not a terrible option

But I'd wait to see if they do that

NYstate
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby NYstate » Thu May 23, 2013 6:31 pm

Do you know what your total COA will be?

I don't agree that just because you are already in debt that you should automatically take on more. Find out how much it is going to cost.

On an IBR plan you can cover $100,000.

How sure are you that you only want Texas biglaw?

Total Litigator
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Total Litigator » Thu May 23, 2013 6:31 pm

I'm just going to chime in and say that interest on 400k is about 30k per year. Can biglaw realistically pay that + principle?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 pm

Rush in the financial aid paperwork to see if you qualify for need based aid.

Also, remember that from H that a 1L and 2L summer biglaw job in TX is definitely possible. That might knock off $50k in debt.

$400k in debt is absolutely insane, but if you're already in +$100k in debt and don't get biglaw from UT, what happens then?

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untar614
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby untar614 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:38 pm

Total Litigator wrote:I'm just going to chime in and say that interest on 400k is about 30k per year. Can biglaw realistically pay that + principle?

If he's in Texas, lower taxes and and CoL will make it more feasible. Just how easy it will be I'm not sure - it depends on how frugally OP can live for a while. In NYC he'd be screwed.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 23, 2013 6:41 pm

H no question. With some need based aid it's 100k difference. If median t-14 1Ls get tx big law then you can probably from H irrespective of grades. It's a lot of debt but you need to spend to make. Unlike shitboomers this plan actually leads to profit.

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sinfiery
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu May 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Rush in the financial aid paperwork to see if you qualify for need based aid.

Also, remember that from H that a 1L and 2L summer biglaw job in TX is definitely possible. That might knock off $50k in debt.

$400k in debt is absolutely insane, but if you're already in +$100k in debt and don't get biglaw from UT, what happens then?

Austin is really cheap. He could get out with like 140k with no paying 1/2l summer jobs plus TX COL/taxes/ UG interest rates, not the worst situation

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Clearly
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Clearly » Thu May 23, 2013 6:43 pm

titan747 wrote:4 letters... PAYE... Harvard it is

How do you know he's eligible?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 23, 2013 6:45 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Rush in the financial aid paperwork to see if you qualify for need based aid.

Also, remember that from H that a 1L and 2L summer biglaw job in TX is definitely possible. That might knock off $50k in debt.

$400k in debt is absolutely insane, but if you're already in +$100k in debt and don't get biglaw from UT, what happens then?

Austin is really cheap. He could get out with like 140k with no paying 1/2l summer jobs plus TX COL/taxes/ UG interest rates, not the worst situation

Even if he does get out with around $150k in debt (UG + living in Austin for 3 years), how does one go about paying that off if they miss biglaw in TX? What's the next option? Can he pay that down doing shitlaw?

Ti Malice
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Ti Malice » Thu May 23, 2013 6:48 pm

Post this after you know how much aid you're getting from Harvard.

If you were somehow actually looking at sticker at H, I just can't see signing up for that kind of debt. H at sticker alone would leave you with ~$290K of debt at graduation. Your undergrad debt is "a little over $100K." So let's say $105K. That will grow to ~$120K during your time in law school. So that's roughly $410K at graduation. If you tried to handle that on a 10-year repayment schedule (assuming you weren't in LIPP), you would pay in the neighborhood of $4,700 per month for those ten years, or over $560K in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Post this after you know how much aid you're getting from Harvard.

If you were somehow actually looking at sticker at H, I just can't see signing up for that kind of debt. H at sticker alone would leave you with ~$290K of debt at graduation. Your undergrad debt is "a little over $100K." So let's say $105K. That will grow to ~$120K during your time in law school. So that's roughly $410K at graduation. If you tried to handle that on a 10-year repayment schedule (assuming you weren't in LIPP), you would pay in the neighborhood of $4,700 per month for those ten years, or over $560K in total.

This

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sinfiery
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm

http://www.nalp.org/2011_associate_salaries

Not the worst salaries, not enough of firms reporting but still something. 150k would be about 21k a year so I think he would be fine.

That being said, the real risk of losing out on biglaw is worth the risk*


See how long it would take to payback your loans with interest generating on whatever it will cost you once you get your fin aid

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 23, 2013 6:54 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:H no question. With some need based aid it's 100k difference. If median t-14 1Ls get tx big law then you can probably from H irrespective of grades. It's a lot of debt but you need to spend to make. Unlike shitboomers this plan actually leads to profit.


How do you figure this? I mean, the bolded seems literally impossible to me.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 23, 2013 6:55 pm

polkij333 wrote:Once you've made this decision you should never mention it again, especially if you go to UT


I can't tell from this ambiguity which way you are assuming OP should go, lol.

nelaw2010
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby nelaw2010 » Thu May 23, 2013 7:04 pm

Harvard.




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