NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

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NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

NYU $100K ($120 with PI summer internship)
33
66%
Columbia $75K
17
34%
 
Total votes: 50

DistanceRunner
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NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby DistanceRunner » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:42 am

I will be living off-campus (pregnant wife, multiple pets) and paying for everything exclusively with loans. I really want to live within walking distance of campus, which makes Harlem/Columbia better than East Village/NYU price-wise. But I am leaning NYU to avoid debt, and could pay for a more expensive apartment, but still save lots of money if I go to NYU. CLS costs approx. $3.5K more per year, not counting personal/living expenses, so that also offsets paying more for an apartment near NYU.

Factoring in PI, based on Law School Transparency, it appears that CLS and NYU are very comparable in employment results. I will pursue PI if a good option presents itself in the mid-sized market where I will be seeking jobs (Colorado), but I will likely end up aiming for big law.

I have until April 26 (Friday) to submit deposit to NYU. Any thoughts, especially on housing options, would be greatly appreciated.

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ph5354a
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby ph5354a » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:51 am

With your PI goals, I would take NYU. Fwiw, Columbia's on-campus housing has couples housing options and they "unofficially" allow pets, so that could very well be an option for you. However, even if, with the difference in housing costs, the total costs come out to be the same, I would still go with NYU because of your interests. Also, if you're fairly certain that you won't be doing big law your 2L summer, go ahead and use NYU's $120k figure. That tips the scales even more, in my opinion. Good luck!

ETA: RC Fail on my part. If it's a toss-up between PI and Big law, I would first look into couples housing at CLS (that could cut down on living costs even more), and then compare total COA. From what I've heard from current students, because PI doesn't have the pipeline system that big law does, it's necessary to be in an institution with a lot of support for PI careers (NYU). Since you're not leaning towards either way, do a coin-flip, and see how you feel after the coin decides your fate.
Last edited by ph5354a on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:54 am

Damn... tough choice. If you're not gunning for PI, Columbia has better placement, but probably not by a huge amount when self selection factors in. I cautiously say NYU, but it's a coin flip for me.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:03 am

All things equal, CLS isn't worth the extra money. From what I've heard and read, basically the same percentage of people who have participated in OCI at the two schools for the last several years have received biglaw summer offers (around 80%, give or take). I'd worry more about that number (which reflects placement ability) than about the number of graduates actually going into biglaw (which also reflects self-selection).

That said, the money is close enough that you can't go wrong. And I will warn you that based on your comments about public interest, you are almost definitely not going to get a public interest job. Good options don't "present themselves" in this economy; you have to forgo biglaw, go all in for public interest, and hope for the best, which might entail graduating without a job offer. This state of affairs is exactly why so many people who would prefer public interest jobs in a vacuum end up going to firms instead.
Last edited by dixiecupdrinking on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ph5354a
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby ph5354a » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:04 am

Also, I'm assuming you've visited both campuses, but if not, that's a definite must. The campuses and surrounding neighborhoods where you would ideally be living are basically polar opposites, and you will likely feel more at home in one over the other.

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Typhoon24
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby Typhoon24 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:05 am

Ahhhh I say screw it and go to Columbia. Both choices are too damn close to have a distinct winner.

IDontUnderstand
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby IDontUnderstand » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:07 am

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Last edited by IDontUnderstand on Wed May 15, 2013 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 am

IDontUnderstand wrote:No idea how anyone can justify turning down $75k from Columbia! I would take CLS in a heartbeat. shouldn't let 25k get in the way of your decision....

Excellent username. Fits this post perfectly.

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ph5354a
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby ph5354a » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:10 am

NoodleyOne wrote:
IDontUnderstand wrote:No idea how anyone can justify turning down $75k from Columbia! I would take CLS in a heartbeat. shouldn't let 25k get in the way of your decision....

Excellent username. Fits this post perfectly.


Hah. It's pretty easy for people who are gunning for PI and/or people who think the UWS is a rural wasteland. Aside from that group, I would agree with you.

Big Dog
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby Big Dog » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:16 am

For PI, NYU.

For Colorado, Colorado, i.e., none of the above.

Paul Campos
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:27 am

DistanceRunner wrote:I will be living off-campus (pregnant wife, multiple pets) and paying for everything exclusively with loans. I really want to live within walking distance of campus, which makes Harlem/Columbia better than East Village/NYU price-wise. But I am leaning NYU to avoid debt, and could pay for a more expensive apartment, but still save lots of money if I go to NYU. CLS costs approx. $3.5K more per year, not counting personal/living expenses, so that also offsets paying more for an apartment near NYU.

Factoring in PI, based on Law School Transparency, it appears that CLS and NYU are very comparable in employment results. I will pursue PI if a good option presents itself in the mid-sized market where I will be seeking jobs (Colorado), but I will likely end up aiming for big law.

I have until April 26 (Friday) to submit deposit to NYU. Any thoughts, especially on housing options, would be greatly appreciated.



The number of unfilled PI jobs in Colorado in search of diffident CLS/NYU grads who think they might want to do PI if the mood strikes can be safely calculated as zero.

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untar614
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby untar614 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:40 am

Given your family situation, and having a new baby on the way, definitely go check out the areas and do a little searching around to see where you might live for either one, as that may be a major factor. Also, d oyou plan on doing a PI 2L summer thing, or will you more likely go for a SA at a firm? and how sure are you of that answer?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:49 am

I live in couples housing near Columbia and the whole process was very easy. Even with 25K and slightly lower tuition you'll probably only break even if you want to live within walking distance to NYU all three years.

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Tekrul
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby Tekrul » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:58 pm

Yes but money spent on rent is completely settled. Less scholarship money means tuition is ever so quickly building interest.

You are looking at substantially better QOL for your wife and baby with the extra cash in hand at NYU and will be looking at pretty much the same job prospects all the way down the class totem pole.

timbs4339
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:06 pm

NYU unless you absolutely can't stand the Village. Job prospects are the same.

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ph5354a
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby ph5354a » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:09 pm

Tekrul wrote:Yes but money spent on rent is completely settled. Less scholarship money means tuition is ever so quickly building interest.
.


Good point, but only if they're paying for rent out of income and not loans, which I don't think has been stated.

DistanceRunner
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby DistanceRunner » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:21 pm

I don't know what my odds are of finding a PI position that matches my goals, but assume it is low. Regardless, I will be looking. I predict I will end up working for a firm.

On Craigslist it looks like there are apartment options in the East Village for around $300 per month more than in Harlem. That would, in total, mean NYU and CLS cost almost exactly the same for me. CLS is my preference, but $25K plus interest goes a long way.

Two lawyers in Colorado, one established and one fairly young, told me that they don't see any difference between the two for Colorado firm hiring purposes. If class rank is a factor in hiring, than maybe NYU is the better choice if the stereotype that it is slightly less academically competitive than CLS holds true? (I doubt this theory is of any value.)

I will definitely focus on environmental law. It is nice that NYU offers formal focus areas, allowing studets to show what they chose to pursue. Maybe this would be of value later in my career?

Thanks to everyone who has provided input.

DistanceRunner
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby DistanceRunner » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:23 pm

Rent will be almost entirely paid for with loans. My wife will be starting grad school, as well. Her options in NYC are plentiful, with so many schools there.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:25 pm

DistanceRunner wrote:I don't know what my odds are of finding a PI position that matches my goals, but assume it is low. Regardless, I will be looking. I predict I will end up working for a firm.

On Craigslist it looks like there are apartment options in the East Village for around $300 per month more than in Harlem. That would, in total, mean NYU and CLS cost almost exactly the same for me. CLS is my preference, but $25K plus interest goes a long way.

Two lawyers in Colorado, one established and one fairly young, told me that they don't see any difference between the two for Colorado firm hiring purposes. If class rank is a factor in hiring, than maybe NYU is the better choice if the stereotype that it is slightly less academically competitive than CLS holds true? (I doubt this theory is of any value.)

I will definitely focus on environmental law. It is nice that NYU offers formal focus areas, allowing studets to show what they chose to pursue. Maybe this would be of value later in my career?

Thanks to everyone who has provided input.

It's a T14 school... all of them are academically competitive.

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ph5354a
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby ph5354a » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:26 pm

In a way, NYU gives you more options. Their big law placement is solid, and they have the PI infrastructure for you to pursue that if you decide to. COA is probably close enough to be considered a wash. I would just echo others (and myself, hah) that the location and neighborhood are important, and that should be a factor here as well, especially with a family.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:16 pm

This is SUCH a difficult choice. I have equal $ at both and have not been able to decide, although Im leaning CLS because with housing factored in it will be cheaper.

In your case, I would probably go to NYU. You want to work in Colorado -- the opportunities will be identical it sounds. With substantially more money from them, it makes sense.

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sinfiery
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby sinfiery » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:24 pm

PI plus pregnant wife plus law school fully on loans equals you will be on PAYE/PLSF.

First, pick the school with the better LRAP, if same, pick the school you like more. Heck, pick NYU so you can live somewhere nice for 3 years and your wife will likely enjoy this consideration


Cuz you won't paying back 200k+ on a PI salary. I think, I'm just a 0L.


Biglaw is slightly more secure from CLS tho

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banjo
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby banjo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:06 pm

Given your family circumstances, I think you have to go with NYU here. Yikes. Live in NJ and take PATH.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:All things equal, CLS isn't worth the extra money. From what I've heard and read, basically the same percentage of people who have participated in OCI at the two schools for the last several years have received biglaw summer offers (around 80%, give or take). I'd worry more about that number (which reflects placement ability) than about the number of graduates actually going into biglaw (which also reflects self-selection).


92% of people who participated in CLS EIP for c/o 2013 got offers. It was 85% for the c/o 2012. I believe c/o 2014 receded somewhat based on the NALP report and my anecdotal impression. I don't have personal knowledge of the NYU percentages although I have read on it here that it is around 80%. I agree that those numbers are more useful than simply the % in big law.

OP, I think this depends somewhat on how likely you think it is that you will do PI. Someone else pointed out, and I think this is correct, it is pretty unlikely that you will get PI in CO from either school. Betting on getting big law in CO also seems risky (I assume you are okay with NYC big law if you strike out in CO) but not nearly as risky as assuming you will get PI in CO. I think you wouldn't be crazy to choose CLS with 75K over NYU with 100K or vice versa. It might be a little crazy to choose CLS with 75K over NYU with 120K. I am not sure where the line is exactly.

otnemem
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Re: NYU $100K or Columbia $75K ???

Postby otnemem » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:49 pm

I was only looking at one-bedroom couples housing, but I was shocked to find Columbia to be around $1k a month cheaper than NYU ($1300 v. $2300).




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