Could use some advice...

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which School?

UMKC
0
No votes
Washburn
1
33%
KU
2
67%
 
Total votes: 3

Adams0417
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:43 pm

Could use some advice...

Postby Adams0417 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:03 pm

.
Last edited by Adams0417 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patrickd139
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:07 pm

Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

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hephaestus
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby hephaestus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:11 pm

patrickd139 wrote:Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

This. Also, why cant you wait another year?

Adams0417
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby Adams0417 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:15 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

This. Also, why cant you wait another year?


I'm getting married. She's planning on a Masters and I can't prolong my schooling. Yes.. love cursed me.

There is nothing good about these schools? ABA and LST both report some success.

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patrickd139
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:24 pm

Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

This. Also, why cant you wait another year?


I'm getting married. She's planning on a Masters and I can't prolong my schooling. Yes.. love cursed me.

There is nothing good about these schools? ABA and LST both report some success.

You're throwing away your money. You have to assume that you'll graduate (at best) at the median of whatever school you attend. Graduating at the median at any of those schools will be practically the same as being jobless. But with $100k+ in loan debt.

Also, your excuse for not waiting a year (or not going at all) is really dumb. Last I checked, it's completely possible to get married without also going to law school.
Last edited by patrickd139 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hephaestus
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby hephaestus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:25 pm

These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:26 pm

patrickd139 wrote:Last I checked, it's completely possible to get married without also going to law school.


Say it ain't so!

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:30 pm

Every good marriage starts with awful financial decisions. Nothing turns a woman on like debt collectors calling her to track down her man.

Seriously, while I can understand your rush to start a career because you're getting married and want to have the happy wife and kids while coming home to a lovely home - this is the goal most of us have, these schools make it substantially likely that you will never have such a life and that your kids will have a below middle class upbringing.

Think about your family over the long haul, not in the short term. All this does in the short term is give you what you feel is something productive, but it is not. It is counterproductive, and not fair to your wife. You need to go to a school that gives you a realistic chance to not simply burden your family with debt, and to get a job. As it stands without a retake you will be a much better partner if you're a stay at home husband.

Adams0417
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby Adams0417 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:37 pm

ImNoScar wrote:These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.


Thanks for the advice.

I plan to pay for all non-tuition expenses. Through my undergrad I've worked my butt off in 3 jobs to get a very good savings to pay for COL in the area. Either way, I'm paying COL anywhere. So, in reality, the actual dept these schools will put me under would be more like $55,000 excluding Washburn which would be closer to $50,000. Looking at median starting jobs out of these schools (unless I'm absolutely missing something) is around that same range. I know with loan interest we are looking at something maybe a little more like $65,000.

If I do as well on my lsat as I hope to and gain some extra scholarships (which that I also am questioning anyone who can answer, how much am I looking at if I got, say, a 155) then would any of these schools be worth the expense? And would any give me a slightly better edge?

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby fruitoftheloom » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:41 pm

Take a year off. Work at Freestate as a server. Taking on more than probably 50-60k for these schools is close to financial suicide. You do realize that 100k almost buys you a nice house in Lawrence or the KC burbs? You're stringing a mortgage payment around your neck (and your fiance's) in exchange for a 50% chance of being able to land a 40-60k job. Retake, get 160+, and go to KU for close to free.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:44 pm

Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.


Thanks for the advice.

I plan to pay for all non-tuition expenses. Through my undergrad I've worked my butt off in 3 jobs to get a very good savings to pay for COL in the area. Either way, I'm paying COL anywhere. So, in reality, the actual dept these schools will put me under would be more like $55,000 excluding Washburn which would be closer to $50,000. Looking at median starting jobs out of these schools (unless I'm absolutely missing something) is around that same range. I know with loan interest we are looking at something maybe a little more like $65,000.

If I do as well on my lsat as I hope to and gain some extra scholarships (which that I also am questioning anyone who can answer, how much am I looking at if I got, say, a 155) then would any of these schools be worth the expense? And would any give me a slightly better edge?


IMO, you shouldn't go to law school if you can't get an LSAT score in the 160s. You are putting yourself at great risk of long-term unemployment + debt by going to one of the law schools you listed above. If you really want to go to law school, you'll focus 100% on the LSAT for at least three months, take a decent (expensive) review course, and bring your score up at least into the 160s.

bananapeanutbutter
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:12 pm

Re: Could use some advice...

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:49 pm

Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.


Thanks for the advice.

I plan to pay for all non-tuition expenses. Through my undergrad I've worked my butt off in 3 jobs to get a very good savings to pay for COL in the area. Either way, I'm paying COL anywhere. So, in reality, the actual dept these schools will put me under would be more like $55,000 excluding Washburn which would be closer to $50,000. Looking at median starting jobs out of these schools (unless I'm absolutely missing something) is around that same range. I know with loan interest we are looking at something maybe a little more like $65,000.

If I do as well on my lsat as I hope to and gain some extra scholarships (which that I also am questioning anyone who can answer, how much am I looking at if I got, say, a 155) then would any of these schools be worth the expense? And would any give me a slightly better edge?

the issue is these surveys aren't accurate as they're school funded. the median of people the school chose to survey and who responded is around 50k. odds are fewer than 50% got these jobs. when you take out family connections, and what not it's probably closer to around one third. you are basically mortgaging your family's future for a 1/3 shot at a job you can get now salary wise in all likelihood.

it's a little frustrating you know the risks, are clearly dead set on it and yet it's going to be all the people who took the extra year to go to a law school that gives them a shot at a good job to use the money they make to help pay off your debt with taxes. it's kind of a mini-rant here but knowing the odds are so poor, being okay with an over 50% chance of default should constitute auto-rejection from the bar.

Adams0417
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:43 pm

Re: Could use some advice...

Postby Adams0417 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:50 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.


Thanks for the advice.

I plan to pay for all non-tuition expenses. Through my undergrad I've worked my butt off in 3 jobs to get a very good savings to pay for COL in the area. Either way, I'm paying COL anywhere. So, in reality, the actual dept these schools will put me under would be more like $55,000 excluding Washburn which would be closer to $50,000. Looking at median starting jobs out of these schools (unless I'm absolutely missing something) is around that same range. I know with loan interest we are looking at something maybe a little more like $65,000.

If I do as well on my lsat as I hope to and gain some extra scholarships (which that I also am questioning anyone who can answer, how much am I looking at if I got, say, a 155) then would any of these schools be worth the expense? And would any give me a slightly better edge?


IMO, you shouldn't go to law school if you can't get an LSAT score in the 160s. You are putting yourself at great risk of long-term unemployment + debt by going to one of the law schools you listed above. If you really want to go to law school, you'll focus 100% on the LSAT for at least three months, take a decent (expensive) review course, and bring your score up at least into the 160s.

If I got this in June would KU give me the scholarships we are talking about? Also, are any of these schools worth it under a certain price tag? Or is everyone saying that the only justifiable way of going to any of these schools is if I can go for free?

bananapeanutbutter
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:12 pm

Re: Could use some advice...

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:01 pm

Adams0417 wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:These schools leave significant portions of the class without any legal job or hope of becoming a lawyer. The calculation often suggested is this: go to a school where your likely 1st year salary is greater than your debt. These schools give you ~5% chance of getting a job that pays 100k.
Best of luck on your June retake. But you should really consider waiting another year and trying to figure out a workaround with your wife's masters. There is just too much of a risk that you will essentially ruin your life with non-dischargable debt.


Thanks for the advice.

I plan to pay for all non-tuition expenses. Through my undergrad I've worked my butt off in 3 jobs to get a very good savings to pay for COL in the area. Either way, I'm paying COL anywhere. So, in reality, the actual dept these schools will put me under would be more like $55,000 excluding Washburn which would be closer to $50,000. Looking at median starting jobs out of these schools (unless I'm absolutely missing something) is around that same range. I know with loan interest we are looking at something maybe a little more like $65,000.

If I do as well on my lsat as I hope to and gain some extra scholarships (which that I also am questioning anyone who can answer, how much am I looking at if I got, say, a 155) then would any of these schools be worth the expense? And would any give me a slightly better edge?


IMO, you shouldn't go to law school if you can't get an LSAT score in the 160s. You are putting yourself at great risk of long-term unemployment + debt by going to one of the law schools you listed above. If you really want to go to law school, you'll focus 100% on the LSAT for at least three months, take a decent (expensive) review course, and bring your score up at least into the 160s.

If I got this in June would KU give me the scholarships we are talking about? Also, are any of these schools worth it under a certain price tag? Or is everyone saying that the only justifiable way of going to any of these schools is if I can go for free?

Don't take this the wrong way but by your grammar, and thinking "I can go with the intent of being top of my class to transfer" type logic you probably are not going to be the top of your class. This is essentially the same logic of saying I'm going to stop working at my current, and work at McDonalds and spend all my money on lottery tickets, and then when I win the jackpot buy a mansion so it is the best way to build a family.

If you want to work in Kansas for most of your life, going to school in Kansas with what I guess is a lack of ties requiring likely top 15-20% type grades to have a good outcome you would want under 20k a year COL.

You'd be paying for COL every where, but ideally you'd be working.

ineptimusprime
Posts: 356
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby ineptimusprime » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:10 pm

There's nothing wrong with any of the schools you're suggesting. I would much rather attend a T2 or T3 public school than some of the extremely overpriced 1st tier private schools (even with a scholarship; those stips are usually crazy). It's really all a matter of what you want to do with your degree. If you're okay making peanuts at a small firm or hanging a shingle, these schools will be fine.

Here's the problem. No law school is worth more than around ~$40,000-$60,000 worth of debt (personally, I wouldn't go into any more than $40,000 debt for ANY law school). That's a ton of money to be paying for something that isn't really an asset in the normal sense of the word.

Try negotiating for scholarships with these schools. If that doesn't work, I'd retake or do something else. This is the first time I've given that advice.

Oh, and I go to KU Law. If you have questions about KU, PM me.

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buddyt
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby buddyt » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:40 pm

Words cannot express how badly you need to retake and how awful your financial life will be if you choose to go to law school given your current options.

Adams0417
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Re: Could use some advice...

Postby Adams0417 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:41 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

This. Also, why cant you wait another year?

How many times is too many times taking the LSAT?

PRgradBYU
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: Could use some advice...

Postby PRgradBYU » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Adams0417 wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:Retake. Do not go to any of those law schools.

This. Also, why cant you wait another year?

How many times is too many times taking the LSAT?


You can never take it too many times. Keep taking it until you're in at least the mid-160s... then maybe law school will make sense for you.




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