NYU ($$) vs Duke ($$) vs UT ($$$$) Forum

[EdSaid]

I'm trying to make up my mind about what school to attend and I was hoping to get some feedback. I was accepted at UT with a full ride, Duke with 90k, and NYU with 75K (90K if I do a PI job during my 2L summer). I was waitlisted at UVA and Michigan; I don't think Michigan is going to happen, but UVA may come back with something. I'm still waiting to hear from Columbia and HYS. Since the deadline for UT's deposit is rapidly approaching, though, I need to make a decision soon.

After using Georgetown's debt calculator, here's what I have for my three options so far:

UT 62,967
Duke 168,968
NYU 197,954

This is based off of the school's budgets on their websites, so if the numbers are wrong on those, please let me know.

I want to go into academia or a public interest job, but I also recognize that those are incredibly tough to get, so I'm also looking for what will give me the best possible outcome after I graduate in case those options don't work out. Both Duke and NYU have programs that match up quite well with the area I'm interested in working, so I like that they would help me get a job in that field, but I'm not sure how comfortable I would be taking out so much in loans for either one. I've been reading the threads about Big Law life and it sounds horrible, so I would like to come out with as little debt as possible so if I do have to do Big Law, I can get out pretty quickly, which is why UT is so appealing. I also am from Texas, so I would have family and friends near, whereas I don't really have either at NYU or Duke. As for where I end up geographically, I'd prefer NYC, but I don't really care too much.

I know I still have some schools that I'm waiting to hear from and that may change things, but I'm also trying to make a decision about the UT scholarship. Should I try to negotiate with Duke for more money using the UT scholarship? I've been a bit unhappy with how this cycle has turned out for me, because I thought I would get more money from schools, so a part of me wants to sit out and reapply next year. I applied in late January to all of the schools, so I missed out on applying for some scholarships at schools, especially NYU. The biggest problem I see with sitting out and reapplying is that I won't really be adding anything new to my résumé, so I'm not sure if my results will change, outside of being able to apply for some full-ride scholarships at NYU. I tried searching on here for people who sat out a cycle, but almost all of them retook the LSAT or had some other big thing to do, so I don't know how schools would view it.

Anyways, this is approaching a wall of text, so any feedback would be very helpful. Thanks!

[sinfiery]

I'm basically you. Same state, numbers, options. Except I don't want to do PI.


I withdrew from UT because I was not comfortable with working in Texas for the rest of my life. Are you?

[WokeUpInACar]

NYU for your goals.

[hephaestus]

I'd pick NYU but try to get more money out of Duke with the UT money. If that works, try to get more out of NYU with the Duke increase.

[sinfiery]

I shopped 120@uva to NYU and got denied so still at 75 so that may be unlikely to change

[Doorkeeper]

If you seriously want academia, you need to retake for HYS.

If you can't improve your LSAT score or your GPA is below a 3.70, then NYU is your next best option for academia. NYU also has the best PI program/placement of the schools you listed. I don't know how NYU's LRAP works, but if you're dead set on academia or PI, I would check to see how it works.

Texas is basically off the board. Duke isn't worth the $30k difference because NYU places so much better into academia.

[dabbadon8]

Duke isn't worth the $30k difference because NYU places so much better into academia.

Um, what?

According to LST, Duke placed 1.4%, 2.4%, .4% into academia for the class years of 10', 11', and 12' respectively. NYU placed .6%, .2%, and .8%. Now I wouldn't recommend going to either for academia, but that comment is nonsense.

[Doorkeeper]

Duke isn't worth the $30k difference because NYU places so much better into academia.

Um, what?

According to LST, Duke placed 1.4%, 2.4%, .4% into academia for the class years of 10', 11', and 12' respectively. NYU placed .6%, .2%, and .8%. Now I wouldn't recommend going to either for academia, but that comment is nonsense.

First, I agree that neither school is great for academia (unless one is also going for a PhD in a related field).

However, LST isn't a proper measure for academia placement because it doesn't aggregate entry from all of the different graduation years in one hiring season. The better measure for placement power is per capita placement per hiring year. In this respect, NYU has been 4th behind HYS for the past 3-4 years because they've really pushed placement hard in the administration over the past 5 years. For this information you need to look at the stats from Solum's blog (pre-2010) and Prawfsblawg.

[dabbadon8]

Duke isn't worth the $30k difference because NYU places so much better into academia.

Um, what?

According to LST, Duke placed 1.4%, 2.4%, .4% into academia for the class years of 10', 11', and 12' respectively. NYU placed .6%, .2%, and .8%. Now I wouldn't recommend going to either for academia, but that comment is nonsense.

First, I agree that neither school is great for academia (unless one is also going for a PhD in a related field).

However, LST isn't a proper measure for academia placement because it doesn't aggregate entry from all of the different graduation years in one hiring season. The better measure for placement power is per capita placement per hiring year. In this respect, NYU has been 4th behind HYS for the past 3-4 years because they've really pushed placement hard in the administration over the past 5 years. For this information you need to look at the stats from Solum's blog (pre-2010) and Prawfsblawg.

Per capita placement is not a good measure since it is going to favor a large school like NYU. There is more room at the top of NYU's class (50 people can be in the top 10% at NYU v. 20 at duke), and given the larger class size, there are assuredly more people interested in pursuing academia. The fact that NYU has numerically more qualified and interested candidates is not indicative of its placement power. Hiring as an aggregate percentage is clearly going to be a better measure of placement power. Further, and most importantly, the argument that paying 30k is worth the negligible increase in odds, even if there is one, is a poor one. Spending 30k to minimally increase your odds of academia (likely less than a percentage point or two) would be foolish given the already low odds of performing well enough at either school to make it a viable option.

[UtilityMonster]

Duke isn't worth the $30k difference because NYU places so much better into academia.

Um, what?

According to LST, Duke placed 1.4%, 2.4%, .4% into academia for the class years of 10', 11', and 12' respectively. NYU placed .6%, .2%, and .8%. Now I wouldn't recommend going to either for academia, but that comment is nonsense.

First, I agree that neither school is great for academia (unless one is also going for a PhD in a related field).

However, LST isn't a proper measure for academia placement because it doesn't aggregate entry from all of the different graduation years in one hiring season. The better measure for placement power is per capita placement per hiring year. In this respect, NYU has been 4th behind HYS for the past 3-4 years because they've really pushed placement hard in the administration over the past 5 years. For this information you need to look at the stats from Solum's blog (pre-2010) and Prawfsblawg.

Per capita placement is not a good measure since it is going to favor a large school like NYU. There is more room at the top of NYU's class (50 people can be in the top 10% at NYU v. 20 at duke), and given the larger class size, there are assuredly more people interested in pursuing academia. The fact that NYU has numerically more qualified and interested candidates is not indicative of its placement power. Hiring as an aggregate percentage is clearly going to be a better measure of placement power. Further, and most importantly, the argument that paying 30k is worth the negligible increase in odds, even if there is one, is a poor one. Spending 30k to minimally increase your odds of academia (likely less than a percentage point or two) would be foolish given the already low odds of performing well enough at either school to make it a viable option.

Do you know what "per capita" means?

[jbagelboy]

If you got 75K from NYU thats a great cycle. Ill trade some of my acceptances for your $. Im in everywhere outside hys but pretty frustrated by scholarships right now. You should be very please with that -- You should go to NYU unless youve decided to stay in Texas

[dabbadon8]

Do you know what "per capita" means?

Touche. Minus my apparent lack of understanding of commonly used terms, I still stand by the larger point.

[bizzybone1313]

Do you know what "per capita" means?

A professor at my undergrad got in my personal space to pointedly ask me that question-- I was about to punch him in the jaw. He was at an anti-abortion rally. I asked him: Why don't you show as much sympathy when 100,000 civilians are getting murdered in Iraq due to our occupation? All lives are equal. So, what is the difference between a unborn child getting killed and a civilian getting murdered in an unjust war? I don't see you rallying and holding up signs for that.

[shifty_eyed]

I'd also go with NYU over Duke because of its PI focus. UT doesn't seem to make sense for what you want.

[EdSaid]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I thought Duke would be a bit more popular, but it seems the consensus is NYU, which is where I was leaning. I'll try to negotiate with both Duke and NYU for more money, because the worst they can do is say no. UT was already pretty low on my list because I didn't want to stay in Texas.

However, I'm surprised by the poll results. There seems to be a sizable portion who thinks UT would be the best option, but no one has posted yet why. The only reason I can see is just the debt load, which is significant, but I'm not sure UT can really get me where I want to go in my career.

Also, the reason I mentioned that I thought was underperforming this cycle is that on LSN it seems people with around my numbers (3.9, 176) were getting full-rides at NYU/Duke or significant money, especially if they applied before January. Of course, I think my softs are pretty weak, so maybe that explains it.

[EdSaid]

I'm basically you. Same state, numbers, options. Except I don't want to do PI.


I withdrew from UT because I was not comfortable with working in Texas for the rest of my life. Are you?

Yeah, I've been following you on LSN, lol. Have you decided on NYU then?

[sinfiery]

Yep! Just waiting on the YS dings to end any lingering questions.


Applying early definitely has its benefits at HLS and scholarships at MVPDBCornell but Chicago Yale, Stanford and Columbia aren't really effected.

The named NYU schollies require certain backgrounds or goals so you'd have to see if you are a fit for any of them.

Once you get into full ride schollies, softs become more important too. It may be worth reapplying for you, the most plausible improvement would be a HLS acceptance, but there are never guarantees. (Still may happen this cycle anyways)

[Doorkeeper]

Also, the reason I mentioned that I thought was underperforming this cycle is that on LSN it seems people with around my numbers (3.9, 176) were getting full-rides at NYU/Duke or significant money, especially if they applied before January. Of course, I think my softs are pretty weak, so maybe that explains it.

If those are your numbers then you shouldn't have a problem getting into HYS or Columbia. Just wait it out. The conversation right now is irrelevant.

Also, if you don't get into HYS then reapply next year...especially considering your interests in academia.