USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

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09042014
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USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:29 am

US news included school funded bullshit jobs as long as the school claims they are "long term" and fulltime. Giving a rankings boost to schools who pull bullshit rankings games. Stupid.

kappycaft1 wrote:I'm glad that USNWR reported more accurate employment data this time, although there are still several improvements that could be made:

#1: Yale University - LSAT (170-176) - GPA (3.84-3.98) - Employment Rate (91.20%)
#2: Harvard University - LSAT (170-175) - GPA (3.77-3.95) - Employment Rate (93.70%)
#2: Stanford University - LSAT (168-173) - GPA (3.76-3.96) - Employment Rate (95.80%)
#4: Columbia University - LSAT (170-174) - GPA (3.58-3.82) - Employment Rate (95.40%)
#4: University of Chicago - LSAT (167-173) - GPA (3.65-3.96) - Employment Rate (95.10%)
#6: New York University - LSAT (169-173) - GPA (3.54-3.84) - Employment Rate (93.80%)
#7: University of Pennsylvania - LSAT (164-171) - GPA (3.55-3.94) - Employment Rate (91.20%)
#7: University of Virginia - LSAT (164-171) - GPA (3.53-3.93) - Employment Rate (96.00%)
#9: University of California, Berkeley - LSAT (163-170) - GPA (3.68-3.91) - Employment Rate (82.60%)
#9: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor - LSAT (166-170) - GPA (3.57-3.83) - Employment Rate (85.80%)
#11: Duke University - LSAT (166-170) - GPA (3.58-3.85) - Employment Rate (87.40%)
#12: Northwestern University - LSAT (164-171) - GPA (3.38-3.84) - Employment Rate (84.70%)
#13: Cornell University - LSAT (166-169) - GPA (3.54-3.77) - Employment Rate (76.10%)
#14: Georgetown University - LSAT (165-170) - GPA (3.43-3.82) - Employment Rate (71.10%)
#15: University of Texas, Austin - LSAT (163-169) - GPA (3.52-3.82) - Employment Rate (76.70%)
#15: Vanderbilt University - LSAT (163-170) - GPA (3.43-3.85) - Employment Rate (76.30%)
#17: University of California, Los Angeles - LSAT (164-169) - GPA (3.58-3.89) - Employment Rate (64.80%)
#18: University of Southern California (Gould) - LSAT (165-168) - GPA (3.51-3.8) - Employment Rate (69.60%)
#19: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities - LSAT (158-168) - GPA (3.36-3.89) - Employment Rate (66.30%)
#19: Washington University in St. Louis - LSAT (160-168) - GPA (3.34-3.78) - Employment Rate (66.60%)
#21: George Washington University - LSAT (161-168) - GPA (3.32-3.77) - Employment Rate (88.00%)


Look at the overlap between high employment schools and schools that employ their students.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2013/02/law-schools-.html


Notre Dame: 22.6%
Boston University: 22.0%
UCLA: 18.6%
Virginia: 17.0%
Phoenix: 16.8%
Vanderbilt: 15.7%
George Washington: 15.6%
McGeorge: 15.2%
Golden Gate: 14.1%
Florida Coastal: 13.7%
New Hampshire: 13.6%
Fordham: 13.3%
Georgetown: 13.0%
Cornell: 12.9%
CUNY: 12.6%
Chicago: 12.3%
NYU: 12.2%
Yale: 12.2%

Emory: 11.6%
Case Western: 11.4%
Miami: 11.4%


The data is from different years, but clearly USNEWS is allowing them to count this stuff, or schools like UVA would never have full employment.

Same old, same old.

Don't out me Leiter.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:44 am

lolololol gw at 88%

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reasonable_man
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:53 am

Desert Fox wrote: Don't out me Leiter.



Don't joke about that - your IP address is probably being traced as we speak...

On a side note - these numbers are all clearly cooked which makes the fact that they aren't even that great somewhat more upsetting.

04102014
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby 04102014 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 am

Ghost93 wrote:lolololol gw at 88%

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:26 am

You missed Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Cornell, and GW. I can understand why, but still.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:55 am

I don't think he missed them out. It's my understanding that their school-funded jobs weren't counted in USNews, so those percentages are generally accurate when compared to somewhere like UVA which is notorious for hiring their own grads for long periods of time.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:58 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:I don't think he missed them out. It's my understanding that their school-funded jobs weren't counted in USNews, so those percentages are generally accurate when compared to somewhere like UVA which is notorious for hiring their own grads for long periods of time.

no
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gw

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Tom Joad
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:59 am

Leiter is probably backtracing you as we speak.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:10 am

Ghost93 wrote:
stuckinthemiddle wrote:I don't think he missed them out. It's my understanding that their school-funded jobs weren't counted in USNews, so those percentages are generally accurate when compared to somewhere like UVA which is notorious for hiring their own grads for long periods of time.

no
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gw


I was actually referring to the four more reputable schools he mentioned. But yah, it looks like GW is doing the same thing UVA is doing.

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reasonable_man
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:10 am

Ghost93 wrote:lolololol gw at 88%


Wait - I'm confused. GW doesn't have 88% employment - surely you jest?

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chup
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby chup » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:13 am

Tom Joad wrote:Leiter is probably backtracing you as we speak.

THE INSOLENCE! THIS IS NOT SCHOLARSHIP!

voytek
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby voytek » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:44 am

Tom Joad wrote:Leiter is probably backtracing you as we speak.


Yeah, you done goofed

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:49 am

reasonable_man wrote:
Ghost93 wrote:lolololol gw at 88%


Wait - I'm confused. GW doesn't have 88% employment - surely you jest?

of course. it should be closer to 95% due to their location and emphasis on public policy

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pedestrian
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby pedestrian » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:25 am

There is a big difference though between a school-funded teaching fellowship or post-grad PI funding and hiring your students to answer phones and stuff envelopes for minimum wage for a year.

Both are responses to the bad economy, but fellowships often do provide a bridge to better employment opportunities, whereas temp work is a blatant attempt to game the rankings.

I wish we could see exactly what these jobs are and what happens to the students who get them.

rad lulz
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:46 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:You missed Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Cornell, and GW. I can understand why, but still.

Probably not Vanderbilt. Unless they changed it for c/o 2012, the 2011 school funded jerbs were FT/PT not FT/LT. Furthermore, Vanderbilt had 73% FT/LT last year and I guess now 76% for 2012, so that makes sense

LRGhost
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby LRGhost » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:26 pm

pedestrian wrote:There is a big difference though between a school-funded teaching fellowship or post-grad PI funding and hiring your students to answer phones and stuff envelopes for minimum wage for a year.

Both are responses to the bad economy, but fellowships often do provide a bridge to better employment opportunities, whereas temp work is a blatant attempt to game the rankings.

I wish we could see exactly what these jobs are and what happens to the students who get them.


I agree, but I don't think both are a response to the bad economy; the latter is. Some schools do have legit PI work/research (NYU) or what I imagine is strong academic work (Yale) and discounting it entirely as a response to ITE is sort of cheap when other schools have neither and are clearly, unabashedly gaming rankings. FWIW, I don't mean to suggest that these are the only two schools with good school-funded jobs.

rad lulz
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:32 pm

LRGhost wrote:
pedestrian wrote:There is a big difference though between a school-funded teaching fellowship or post-grad PI funding and hiring your students to answer phones and stuff envelopes for minimum wage for a year.

Both are responses to the bad economy, but fellowships often do provide a bridge to better employment opportunities, whereas temp work is a blatant attempt to game the rankings.

I wish we could see exactly what these jobs are and what happens to the students who get them.


I agree, but I don't think both are a response to the bad economy; the latter is. Some schools do have legit PI work/research (NYU) or what I imagine is strong academic work (Yale) and discounting it entirely as a response to ITE is sort of cheap when other schools have neither and are clearly, unabashedly gaming rankings. FWIW, I don't mean to suggest that these are the only two schools with good school-funded jobs.

For the thousandth time, then why did the # of school funded jerbs at Yale and NYE jump after the recession

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:39 pm

rad lulz wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
pedestrian wrote:There is a big difference though between a school-funded teaching fellowship or post-grad PI funding and hiring your students to answer phones and stuff envelopes for minimum wage for a year.

Both are responses to the bad economy, but fellowships often do provide a bridge to better employment opportunities, whereas temp work is a blatant attempt to game the rankings.

I wish we could see exactly what these jobs are and what happens to the students who get them.


I agree, but I don't think both are a response to the bad economy; the latter is. Some schools do have legit PI work/research (NYU) or what I imagine is strong academic work (Yale) and discounting it entirely as a response to ITE is sort of cheap when other schools have neither and are clearly, unabashedly gaming rankings. FWIW, I don't mean to suggest that these are the only two schools with good school-funded jobs.

For the thousandth time, then why did the # of school funded jerbs at Yale and NYE jump after the recession


All that proves is that 100% of the PI jobs aren't ideal. Not that any percentage of the PI jobs aren't good enough to count.

rad lulz
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:42 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
pedestrian wrote:There is a big difference though between a school-funded teaching fellowship or post-grad PI funding and hiring your students to answer phones and stuff envelopes for minimum wage for a year.

Both are responses to the bad economy, but fellowships often do provide a bridge to better employment opportunities, whereas temp work is a blatant attempt to game the rankings.

I wish we could see exactly what these jobs are and what happens to the students who get them.


I agree, but I don't think both are a response to the bad economy; the latter is. Some schools do have legit PI work/research (NYU) or what I imagine is strong academic work (Yale) and discounting it entirely as a response to ITE is sort of cheap when other schools have neither and are clearly, unabashedly gaming rankings. FWIW, I don't mean to suggest that these are the only two schools with good school-funded jobs.

For the thousandth time, then why did the # of school funded jerbs at Yale and NYE jump after the recession


All that proves is that 100% of the PI jobs aren't ideal. Not that any percentage of the PI jobs aren't good enough to count.

What he actually said was fellowships weren't a response to the bad economy dood

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pedestrian
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby pedestrian » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:22 pm

I also wonder whether Yale's lower legal employment stats aren't a function of Yale's COAP covering non-legal employment, unlike most other LRAPs.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:23 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
All that proves is that 100% of the PI jobs aren't ideal. Not that any percentage of the PI jobs aren't good enough to count.

What he actually said was fellowships weren't a response to the bad economy dood


Oh. You're right.

09042014
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:32 pm

10% of Yale's grads aren't working on teaching fellowship.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:33 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:You missed Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Cornell, and GW. I can understand why, but still.

Probably not Vanderbilt. Unless they changed it for c/o 2012, the 2011 school funded jerbs were FT/PT not FT/LT. Furthermore, Vanderbilt had 73% FT/LT last year and I guess now 76% for 2012, so that makes sense


All data are class of 2011 data. I've corresponded with Morse and he's making this clearer. Hopefully he takes a few other suggestions too...

dangerdan
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby dangerdan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:08 pm

Berkeley should clearly be 6th

rad lulz
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:21 pm

dangerdan wrote:Berkeley should clearly be 6th

Yeah dude lots more employers would come to campus AND your penis would get bigger.




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