Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

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CliveStaples
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Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby CliveStaples » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:37 pm

Introduction
My reason for writing this is to hopefully dispel some misconceptions about Regent Law and give an honest assessment of the school to help any non-law students who may be interested. I realize that I'm going into the lion's den here by posting this but hopefully it will be of some use. I know trolls are going to troll so if that's your intention feel free, I don't intend to check up on this post after I post it to respond to people (however, I may edit it from time to time to clarify) but if you have a legitimate question please feel free to PM me. I realize after reading the title much of TLS is going to either 1) Laugh, 2) become angry, or 3) reject anything I have to say simply because it's Regent. If you fall into any of those three categories it will probably be a waste for you to read past this point, but if you're bored, proceed at your own risk.

Some of Regent's reputation is warranted while much of it is not. I don't try to hide the abysmal bar passage rates of the past and some questionable decision making. I only hope to provide as fair of a view as I can.

I. About Me
I am a Christian. I am not crazy (my mother had me tested). I went to a solid undergrad institution and was a fairly extreme splitter. My top school was Duke and I was rejected. I had several top 20 offers (mostly without a ton of money offered to me). I don't have a desire to work 80 hours/week to make money. I'm slightly right of center politically. I decided on Regent because I enjoyed the school, the atmosphere, and the professors. They also offered me a very nice scholarship. I decided I would like to go some place where I wouldn't accumulate debt and could stand out. So far I'm very glad with the decision I made and hope to be of some help to any prospective law students that are in the position I was in.

II. Bar Passage & Employment
About a decade ago, Regent had inexcusably low bar passage rates. I believe the lowest it got was 47% of first time takers passed. However, the numbers are now much, much higher. Over the past three years the rate was over 82% across the nation. 97% of graduates with a 155 LSAT or higher passed the bar exam on their first attempt and 100% of graduates with a 160 or higher passed the bar. Unfortunately, there are some lingering effects from the "bad years" that recent graduates and current students are having to overcome. Hopefully within a few more years the law school of today will completely overshadow the law school of the past.

There are many people that believe that Regent students/grads have no internship or employment prospects. The students don't come out making 160k and, to be honest, most don't have aspirations to go into big law. That being said, most do come out with employment and many in the field they want to practice. The latest numbers from 2011 show 19 of 118 graduates unemployed at graduation. The salaries aren't high with many graduates choosing to go into public interest work, government, Con Law, and public defender offices. However, the school has a national reach unlike most other 4th tier schools and offers LRAP and with 10 years of public interest work the government will pay off all student loans. Also, like many higher ranked schools, a lot of the top students have federal clerkship offers.

The Career Services department is very hard working and is very helpful. They post hundreds of internship opportunities and do an outstanding job networking to help students get internships. Again, most of these internships aren't with prestigious big law firms but there is a variety of fields and opportunities for internships. I know many of my classmates were offered Blackstone Fellowships and several have been given stipends to do human rights work through the Center for Global Justice. Several state supreme courts and attorney generals have come to the school holding spots open for Regent students.

III. Stigma
There's no way around it, this school was founded by a very conservative televangelist named Pat Robertson. Automatically some potential employers (as I assume many of you have thought) will think that you're an ultra-conservative nut job who is going to shove the Bible down their throat. The truth is the graduates don't come out and do this but it is still an obstacle that we have to work around. However, we don't have to kiss his ring at the start of each day. We don't attend anti-abortion rallies every weekend (you only have to attend one a semester -- Just kidding). We also don't roll around on the floor "seized by the Holy Spirit" trying to divine the meaning of a Justice Scalia opinion.

IV. Student Body
I'm not going to lie, the student body is mostly made up of WASPs. The students are almost completely Christian with most being protestant (many different denominations) and some being Catholic. This is just an estimate based on what I've seen but this is how the student body seems to breakdown politically: 7% ultra-conservative, 65% conservative, 22% moderate, 6% liberal. An overwhelming majority is not liberal but there are some liberals.

The majority of students are pretty normal people. We go out on Friday nights to local bars, we go see movies, go to the beach, and like to have fun. The hotel on the campus even serves some pretty decent beers on tap (usually a few local beers - IPAs, Stouts, etc.) and a couple of light beers (Bud light, etc.) and it's not too expensive.

Many students also play intramural flag football, basketball, and softball. We also get together to watch college football on Saturdays and the Super Bowl.

V. Faculty
I've been much more impressed with the faculty than I thought I would be. Again, they are mostly conservative and they're Christian. However, they are quite distinguished and incredibly helpful. Most of the professors are from top law schools including Duke, UVA, Harvard, and UChicago amongst others. I visited several other law schools before going to Regent and all the students praised their professors but, undoubtedly, the students would say that there was one or two professors that they didn't like. I don't have that problem. There may be some students who don't really like a particular professor but almost all the students love our professors.

VI. Classes
1Ls take a pretty standard assortment of classes (torts, property, contracts, civ pro, and legal writing) but there is one class that outsiders like to bash Regent for and that is Christian Foundations of Law. It's understandable. The title of it makes it sound like Regent is teaching us that the Constitution was written by Jesus and that the Bible governs state and federal law. I assure you, it's nothing like that. It's a semester course that is divided between the first part looking at different historical legal philosophers including Aquinas, Blackstone, Bracton, Holmes, and Coke, and the second part of application of different legal philosophies to present day situations. There is reading from Christian philosophers such as C.S. Lewis and non-Christian legal thinkers such as Judge Posner. We talk about the historical foundations of the English common law, Legal Realism, Legal Relativism, Utilitarianism, Law & Economics, and many other legal theories. It wasn't my favorite class but it was pretty interesting.

Another misconception is that the entire law is taught through a Biblical standpoint. The property law I'm taught is the same property law at any other law school. I still learn fully about concurrent estates & future interests, landlord tenant law, adverse possession, and easements, but every now and then there will be a class where we spend 5-10 minutes talking about how a Biblical view would apply to a certain situation. It's not like we have the casebook open right beside our Bible trying to reconcile Brown v. Voss with the Bible.

Classes last 10 minutes longer than a standard class would because there is a 10 minute "devotion" at the beginning of each class. Most of the time it is the prof reading a short Bible passage and then talking about it or it is used for a time of prayer. Sometimes this can be annoying because I have so much to do I don't want to spend single minute more in class than I have to, but much of the time I enjoy the tone that is set for the class through the first ten minutes. It helps me to relax and be ready for the actual law portion of the class. You're not forced to pray or even pay attention during the devotions.

I am in the Honors section. The LSAT/GPA profile for the honors section is comparable to a top 25 school. There are also certain advantages that I suggest you check out on the Regent Law website. Smaller class sizes, more freedom in elective choices, classes taught by the Dean, and special events (including breakfast with John Ashcroft) are among some of the benefits. You have to keep a 3.0 to stay in the honors section and even if you don't start in the honors section you can grade in by being in the top 15% of the class. Also, there's not any extra work or harder classes for being in the honors section. Edit: I apparently did a poor job explaining the honors section. It is not a distinct cohort from the rest of the law school. The only honors class this semester is Contracts with all other classes are fully integrated with both honors and non-honors students.

Also, I know there is a mistake in the TLS profile for Regent stating that there is a forced curve but there isn't. The median of the class tends to be at a 2.8GPA but none of the teachers force a curve. Along those same lines, the GPA requirement for scholarship is a 2.8. Essentially if you can stay in the top half of the class you can keep your scholarship and if you have qualified for a scholarship and do the work necessary, you will almost certainly be in the top half.

VII. Is Regent for me?
I honestly think if you're not a Christian, you're not going to like being at Regent. If you don't like the law school you're at you're probably not going to do well. This is not to discourage non-Christians but to give a realistic perspective. If you want to go into big law, Regent probably isn't for you. If you're afraid of overcoming baseless stereotypes, Regent probably isn't for you. However, if you want a strong legal education, want to use the law to serve others, and enjoy being challenged in a Christian environment, you should consider Regent.
Last edited by CliveStaples on Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

K Rock
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby K Rock » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:50 pm

CliveStaples wrote:IntroductionI am in the Honors section. The LSAT/GPA profile for the honors section is comparable to a top 25 school. There are also certain advantages that I suggest you check out on the Regent Law website. Smaller class sizes, more freedom in elective choices, classes taught by the Dean, and special events (including breakfast with John Ashcroft) are among some of the benefits. You have to keep a 3.0 to stay in the honors section and even if you don't start in the honors section you can grade in by being in the top 15% of the class. Also, there's not any extra work or harder classes for being in the honors section.


So...Regent blatantly section stacks and tries to make it okay by calling it an "honors section"? Yikes.

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stillwater
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby stillwater » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:13 pm

K Rock wrote:
CliveStaples wrote:IntroductionI am in the Honors section. The LSAT/GPA profile for the honors section is comparable to a top 25 school. There are also certain advantages that I suggest you check out on the Regent Law website. Smaller class sizes, more freedom in elective choices, classes taught by the Dean, and special events (including breakfast with John Ashcroft) are among some of the benefits. You have to keep a 3.0 to stay in the honors section and even if you don't start in the honors section you can grade in by being in the top 15% of the class. Also, there's not any extra work or harder classes for being in the honors section.


So...Regent blatantly section stacks and tries to make it okay by calling it an "honors section"? Yikes.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

thand42292
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby thand42292 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:12 pm

CliveStaples wrote:II. Bar Passage & Employment
....
There are many people that believe that Regent students/grads have no internship or employment prospects. The students don't come out making 160k and, to be honest, most don't have aspirations to go into big law. That being said, most do come out with employment and many in the field they want to practice. The latest numbers from 2011 show 19 of 118 graduates unemployed at graduation. The salaries aren't high with many graduates choosing to go into public interest work, government, Con Law, and public defender offices. However, the school has a national reach unlike most other 4th tier schools and offers LRAP and with 10 years of public interest work the government will pay off all student loans. Also, like many higher ranked schools, a lot of the top students have federal clerkship offers.

The Career Services department is very hard working and is very helpful. They post hundreds of internship opportunities and do an outstanding job networking to help students get internships. Again, most of these internships aren't with prestigious big law firms but there is a variety of fields and opportunities for internships. I know many of my classmates were offered Blackstone Fellowships and several have been given stipends to do human rights work through the Center for Global Justice. Several state supreme courts and attorney generals have come to the school holding spots open for Regent students.



For anyone who might take this seriously: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent&show=ABA

Caveat emptor.

nebula666
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby nebula666 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:15 pm

Confirmed all and possibly added more stigmas

Also, did you write the UrbanDictionary page?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:41 pm

Is the mission of this school to create evangelical lawyers who will devote their lives to using the legal system as a tool to slowly but surely change the U.S. into a theocracy?

Because I don't understand why the study of law in a secular country ought ever to involve religious elements. You can be Christian and just go to a normal law school and then go pray after class. Frankly I don't see why anyone who isn't way out there would tolerate going to a school like this.

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eav1277
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby eav1277 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:50 pm

He had some good lines. Prob a good choice of his to state he wouldn't respond. Otherwise, he'd be on here for days :lol:

ex.
We also don't roll around on the floor "seized by the Holy Spirit" trying to divine the meaning of a Justice Scalia opinion.

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pedestrian
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby pedestrian » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:03 pm

thand42292 wrote:
CliveStaples wrote:II. Bar Passage & Employment
....
There are many people that believe that Regent students/grads have no internship or employment prospects. The students don't come out making 160k and, to be honest, most don't have aspirations to go into big law. That being said, most do come out with employment and many in the field they want to practice. The latest numbers from 2011 show 19 of 118 graduates unemployed at graduation. The salaries aren't high with many graduates choosing to go into public interest work, government, Con Law, and public defender offices. However, the school has a national reach unlike most other 4th tier schools and offers LRAP and with 10 years of public interest work the government will pay off all student loans. Also, like many higher ranked schools, a lot of the top students have federal clerkship offers.




For anyone who might take this seriously: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent&show=ABA

Caveat emptor.


Wait, I thought Con Lawyers make bank?

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nickb285
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby nickb285 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:31 pm

CliveStaples wrote:special events (including breakfast with John Ashcroft)


Well hell, why would you go anywhere else?

paul554
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby paul554 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:09 pm

Regent is a tier 4 school that is expensive. That alone is usually enough to discourage attendance there, but then we have to add on the fact that people need to defend the school and its beliefs. Honestly, outside of Cooley, what TTTT schools require this type of defense? Add to this the fact that Regent is in a very crowded market and it simply doesn't fair well for them.

I applied to Regent and actually was accepted. Employment prospects and tuition costs don't matter for me so my wife thought a good christian based teaching would be nice. The problem is though that Regent brags about being religious but offers no view into their underlying theology or beliefs. In the end I chose a reputable law school with strong academic offerings and will pursue a masters of divinity latter from the same seminary that my wife is attending.

In the end I just can't see a good reason as to why one would attend Regent and deal with all this stigma and added hardship when there are better options. Heck, Duke even offers a JD/Masters of Divinity degree! That right there gives you all the "benefits" that Regent does. In fact most private religious universities offer a JD/Masters of Divinity. So again I have to ask why attend Regent when there are plenty of other law schools that offer the same and better for less without the Stigma and lousy job prospects? Think about this, how willing would most employers be to hire someone who came from a school that bragged about offering a Hindu or Islamic interpretation of the law?

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pedestrian
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby pedestrian » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:49 pm

This reminds me of my brother's idea for marketing Christian cigarettes.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby mephistopheles » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:51 pm

CliveStaples wrote:where I wouldn't accumulated debt


had to stop here.

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buddyt
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby buddyt » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:57 pm

My brother went to Regent c/o 2012, got median grades, and is currently killing it doing immigration law in the Phoenix area. /anecdote

rad lulz
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby rad lulz » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:05 pm

lol @ 47.5 FT/LT jerbz

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suralin
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby suralin » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:18 pm

rad lulz wrote:lol @ 47.5 FT/LT jerbz

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pannekoeken
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby pannekoeken » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm

buddytyler wrote:My brother went to Regent c/o 2012, got median grades, and is currently killing it doing immigration law in the Phoenix area. /anecdote


:lol:

What you did there. I see it.

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Crowing
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby Crowing » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:27 pm

pannekoeken wrote:
buddytyler wrote:My brother went to Regent c/o 2012, got median grades, and is currently killing it doing immigration law in the Phoenix area. /anecdote


:lol:

What you did there. I see it.


Fuck I can't believe I whooshed that.

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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby potterpirate04 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:44 am

pannekoeken wrote:
buddytyler wrote:My brother went to Regent c/o 2012, got median grades, and is currently killing it doing immigration law in the Phoenix area. /anecdote


:lol:

What you did there. I see it.


:lol:

Crowing wrote:Fuck I can't believe I whooshed that.


Took me a while too, fwiw. Had to read it twice for it to sink in.

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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:41 am

pannekoeken wrote:
buddytyler wrote:My brother went to Regent c/o 2012, got median grades, and is currently killing it doing immigration law in the Phoenix area. /anecdote


:lol:

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iShotFirst
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby iShotFirst » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:07 am

pedestrian wrote:
thand42292 wrote:
CliveStaples wrote:II. Bar Passage & Employment
....
There are many people that believe that Regent students/grads have no internship or employment prospects. The students don't come out making 160k and, to be honest, most don't have aspirations to go into big law. That being said, most do come out with employment and many in the field they want to practice. The latest numbers from 2011 show 19 of 118 graduates unemployed at graduation. The salaries aren't high with many graduates choosing to go into public interest work, government, Con Law, and public defender offices. However, the school has a national reach unlike most other 4th tier schools and offers LRAP and with 10 years of public interest work the government will pay off all student loans. Also, like many higher ranked schools, a lot of the top students have federal clerkship offers.




For anyone who might take this seriously: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=regent&show=ABA

Caveat emptor.


Wait, I thought Con Lawyers make bank?


Con Law from Regent/Liberty =
dixiecupdrinking wrote: the mission of this school [IS] to create evangelical lawyers who will devote their lives to using the legal system as a tool to slowly but surely change the U.S. into a theocracy

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romothesavior
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:24 pm

OP, thank you for taking the time to provide your insight. It's always good when students take the time to write things up like this for the TLS community.

I do, however, want to add a few caveats for the 0Ls out there just based on the things that you said.

1. Employment prospects: Objectively, they are terrible. Law School Transparency's report for Regent shows less than 50% employed in FT, permanent JD-required jobs, and 0 at firms of 100+. It's good that people don't have big firm aspirations, because students are pretty much shut out from big (or even mid) sized firms, based on the NALP data I just reviewed.

2. Stigma: Why would anyone willingly choose to put themselves behind the 8-ball and put the stain of Regent on their resume?

3. Honors Section: As someone above mentioned, it sounds like they are section stacking the scholarships and calling it an "Honors" section. Maybe we're misinterpreting that and OP can clarify it for us, but that sounds like one of the most shady practices I've ever heard of.

I think people should run, not walk, away from this school.

20141023
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:02 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby mephistopheles » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:06 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:After looking at the Regents Law Photo Blog that is linked from the Regents University School of Law website, I noticed something extremely sad about the photographer. The blog states:

Regents Law Photo Blog wrote:Image

Stephanie Hartman is a 2L at Regent University. She earned her BA from Stanford University in 2009. She works as a Graduate Assistant for Regent Law Marketing & Communications. She is a member of Hispanic Law Student Association, PAD, and the Student Virginia Bar Association. Stephanie is originally from Las Vegas, Nevada. She is excited share her interviews with current students and pictures of campus with you!


I wonder what Stephanie did to fuck things up so bad that she went from Stanford to Regents...

Another funny thing on the photo blog is the series of questions posed to current students:

Regents Law Photo Blog wrote:Q. Where are you from?
Q. What does becoming a lawyer mean to you?
Q. How did you spend your summer?
Q. What do you wish you knew before you started law school?
Q. What surprised you most about Regent?
Q. How is law school different from your college experience?
Q. What is your favorite class so far and why?
Q. What kind of law do you hope to practice after graduation?
Q. How would you describe the group of your closest friends found here at Regent?
Q. How do you prefer to study?
Q. What is your favorite book of all time and why?
Q. What is your favorite Bible verse?
Q. If you could meet with anyone alive or dead, who would it be and why?
Q. If you could have lunch with any faculty member or administrator at Regent who would it be and why?
Q. What kinds of extra-curricular activities are you involved with?
Q. If you had an entire weekend available, what would you do in the Hampton Roads area?
Q. Is there anything else you would like your peers or future law students to learn about you?


It always scares me to think that people like this might become lawmakers. (Hopefully nobody at Regents is this bad, but I think that you have to be a certain level of crazy to consider paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend a "Christian" law school.)


i'm right there with you, but to resort to conflating regents law students with the westboro baptist church is a bit much, dontchathink?

20141023
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:07 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Regent University School of Law - Thoughts from a 1L

Postby mephistopheles » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:14 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:i'm right there with you, but to resort to conflating regents law students with the westboro baptist church is a bit much, dontchathink?

Hence my statement: (Hopefully nobody at Regents is this bad, but I think that you have to be a certain level of crazy to consider paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend a "Christian" law school.)



to even do it is a shameless hyperbolic ad hominem.




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