U of A job placements in CA

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calicali
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U of A job placements in CA

Postby calicali » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:29 am

How well does Arizona place in CA, specifically SoCal? Are there strong alumni networks? LST reports relatively impressive employment statistics http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=arizona but I'm wondering if that 74% is also reflective of the relative success of students wanting to work in CA?

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TripTrip
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby TripTrip » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:46 am

calicali wrote:How well does Arizona place in CA, specifically SoCal? Are there strong alumni networks?

Arizona placed 5.7% of 2011 grads in California according to your link.

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bk1
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby bk1 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:53 am

Don't go to Arizona if you want to work in CA.

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Pumpkin_Pie
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby Pumpkin_Pie » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:55 am

bk1 wrote:Don't go to Arizona if you want to work in CA.


Agreed. There are too many law schools in CA already, OP. Why would you want to go to school in AZ?

calicali
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby calicali » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:13 am

Pumpkin_Pie wrote:
bk1 wrote:Don't go to Arizona if you want to work in CA.


Agreed. There are too many law schools in CA already, OP. Why would you want to go to school in AZ?



I have a 159/3.3 and I got waitlisted at Loyola after applying ED. I'm hoping to get into Loyola in the end, but if not, UA's employment stats were impressive compared to Loyola/Pepperdine/USD's ~45%. So I was wondering if UA would be a good choice for me if it is a respected school in CA and its stats carry over into CA's job market

Thoughts?

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Nova
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby Nova » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:22 am

bk1 wrote:Don't go to Arizona if you want to work in CA.

+1

The employment stats are not reflective of prospects in Cali markets. CA is over saturated. Since you want to work in Cali, you should retake the LSAT and attend a California law school.

Its importaint to go to school where you want to practice, because thats where the school will have the best rep + thats where youll be able to network most effectively.

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TripTrip
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby TripTrip » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:22 am

You're looking at a legal market that is dominated by top schools. Going to a sub-T1 school in California, especially at sticker, is a horrible idea.

calicali
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby calicali » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:42 am

I am aware the CA market is over saturated. I want to be an attorney and have saved $$ for school. I'm hoping to get scholarships, but we'll see. Thank you for your advice. I think regional ties are important also, and I was just wondering if UA had a strong rep in CA. I guess my question has been answered, but if anyone has heard anything more specific about this topic, please let me know

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:01 am

I know a Californian who graduated from Cal, moved to AZ for a couple years and attended ASU law school, then tried to move back to CA and searched for a job for a year before finding any work. I think she lives in Redding or some godforsaken place in Northern CA. She has $130000 of debt and a legal aid job that pays 50K or so. This is very bad.

Retake the LSAT, score high enough to get a HUGE scholarship from the respected schools in the region of the state that you want to work (Davis/Hastings for northern CA, Loyola/Pep for LA, USD for San Diego) and even once you go there brace yourself for the reality that you might never work as a lawyer with a degree from one of these schools. There's like a 40% chance of that happening. I assume that your GPA will not get you into Stanford, Cal, UCLA or USC but if you score super high then feel free to apply to the latter two.

Given your goals and numbers right now you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, disqualified from attending law school. A desire to be a lawyer and some extra cash to blow is not enough reason to go to just any old law school. But hope is not lost! A high LSAT can work wonders. Good luck, we are all rooting for you. Make sure you come back and tell us how the retake went!

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby suralin » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:I know a Californian who graduated from Cal, moved to AZ for a couple years and attended ASU law school, then tried to move back to CA and searched for a job for a year before finding any work. I think she lives in Redding or some godforsaken place in Northern CA. She has $130000 of debt and a legal aid job that pays 50K or so. This is very bad.

Retake the LSAT, score high enough to get a HUGE scholarship from the respected schools in the region of the state that you want to work (Davis/Hastings for northern CA, Loyola/Pep for LA, USD for San Diego) and even once you go there brace yourself for the reality that you might never work as a lawyer with a degree from one of these schools. There's like a 40% chance of that happening. I assume that your GPA will not get you into Stanford, Cal, UCLA or USC but if you score super high then feel free to apply to the latter two.

Given your goals and numbers right now you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, disqualified from attending law school. A desire to be a lawyer and some extra cash to blow is not enough reason to go to just any old law school. But hope is not lost! A high LSAT can work wonders. Good luck, we are all rooting for you. Make sure you come back and tell us how the retake went!


+1

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby boblawlob » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:30 pm

calicali wrote:
Pumpkin_Pie wrote:
bk1 wrote:Don't go to Arizona if you want to work in CA.


Agreed. There are too many law schools in CA already, OP. Why would you want to go to school in AZ?



I have a 159/3.3 and I got waitlisted at Loyola after applying ED. I'm hoping to get into Loyola in the end, but if not, UA's employment stats were impressive compared to Loyola/Pepperdine/USD's ~45%. So I was wondering if UA would be a good choice for me if it is a respected school in CA and its stats carry over into CA's job market

Thoughts?

I can't comment on the topic at hand, but I know of someone with a 3.45ish with a 158 LSAT that got into Loyola.

I hope that gives you hope.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby cahwc12 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:33 pm

BigZuck wrote:I know a Californian who graduated from Cal, moved to AZ for a couple years and attended ASU law school, then tried to move back to CA and searched for a job for a year before finding any work. I think she lives in Redding or some godforsaken place in Northern CA. She has $130000 of debt and a legal aid job that pays 50K or so. This is very bad.

Retake the LSAT, score high enough to get a HUGE scholarship from the respected schools in the region of the state that you want to work (Davis/Hastings for northern CA, Loyola/Pep for LA, USD for San Diego) and even once you go there brace yourself for the reality that you might never work as a lawyer with a degree from one of these schools. There's like a 40% chance of that happening. I assume that your GPA will not get you into Stanford, Cal, UCLA or USC but if you score super high then feel free to apply to the latter two.

Given your goals and numbers right now you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, disqualified from attending law school. A desire to be a lawyer and some extra cash to blow is not enough reason to go to just any old law school. But hope is not lost! A high LSAT can work wonders. Good luck, we are all rooting for you. Make sure you come back and tell us how the retake went!


The problem with what you recommend is that it's a fantasy. With her GPA, she's looking at something close to 0% likelihood of realizing her dream. Probably the closest OP will come is in spending three years at a CA law school, and that's just delaying reality. You're spot on about the job prospects, but she isn't going to garner enough merit aid to make it a worthwhile investment at any school she could attend.

It's a tough reality, but CA schools are very stingy, very expensive, and the market is flooded with graduates. Even with an impressive LSAT score (~170), you're looking at significant debt at a good school like UCLA which still isn't going to guarantee you a job (and westwood is one of the most expensive places to live).

OP, I think you should adjust your sights to a legal market outside of CA, at least initially. It's not to say what you hope to do is impossible, but it's so exceedingly unlikely that you'll probably end up spending all of your savings, go significantly into debt, and still be struggling to get a job at all, to say nothing of attaining some kind of dream job. The schools just won't offer you enough aid no matter what you score to warrant consideration at those schools. If you had a GPA over median/75th it would be a different story, but with ~25% and the LSAT improvement needed, it will not just be an uphill battle, it'll be a paraplegic everest climb.

edit: because I care

LSN profiles for <3.5 acceptances and corresponding self-reported merit aid:
Hastings 2011-2012 | 45.3% employed, $259,171 resident COA per LST
Loyola 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $259,362 COA per LST
Pepperdine 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $255,651 COA per LST
UC Davis 2011-2012 | 55.4% employed, $237,705 resident COA per LST
USC 2011-2012 | 63.8% employed, $272,261 COA per LST
UCLA 2011-2012 | 61.3% employed, $244,174 resident COA per LST

Note that LST's COA is an admitted under-estimation of both projected tuition increases (3% factored versus 5-8% actual) and debt repayment. Their projections assume that you will begin payment upon graduation and will be gainfully employed, which is worse than coin-flip odds at some of these schools.
Last edited by cahwc12 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:48 pm

cahwc12 wrote:With her GPA, she's looking at something close to 0% likelihood of realizing her dream. Probably the closest OP will come is in spending three years at a CA law school, and that's just delaying reality. You're spot on about the job prospects, but she isn't going to garner enough merit aid to make it a worthwhile investment at any school she could attend.

It's a tough reality, but CA schools are very stingy, very expensive, and the market is flooded with graduates. Even with an impressive LSAT score (~170), you're looking at significant debt at a good school like UCLA which still isn't going to guarantee you a job (and westwood is one of the most expensive places to live).

OP, I think you should adjust your sights to a legal market outside of CA, at least initially. It's not to say what you hope to do is impossible, but it's so exceedingly unlikely that you'll probably end up spending all of your savings, go significantly into debt, and still be struggling to get a job at all, to say nothing of attaining some kind of dream job. The schools just won't offer you enough aid no matter what you score to warrant consideration at those schools. If you had a GPA over median/75th it would be a different story, but with ~25% and the LSAT improvement needed, it will not just be an uphill battle, it'll be a paraplegic everest climb.

This is excellent advice. Splitters looking to work in California need to either widen their geographical net or consider another career path. Getting a high LSAT just isn't good enough.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:23 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know a Californian who graduated from Cal, moved to AZ for a couple years and attended ASU law school, then tried to move back to CA and searched for a job for a year before finding any work. I think she lives in Redding or some godforsaken place in Northern CA. She has $130000 of debt and a legal aid job that pays 50K or so. This is very bad.

Retake the LSAT, score high enough to get a HUGE scholarship from the respected schools in the region of the state that you want to work (Davis/Hastings for northern CA, Loyola/Pep for LA, USD for San Diego) and even once you go there brace yourself for the reality that you might never work as a lawyer with a degree from one of these schools. There's like a 40% chance of that happening. I assume that your GPA will not get you into Stanford, Cal, UCLA or USC but if you score super high then feel free to apply to the latter two.

Given your goals and numbers right now you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, disqualified from attending law school. A desire to be a lawyer and some extra cash to blow is not enough reason to go to just any old law school. But hope is not lost! A high LSAT can work wonders. Good luck, we are all rooting for you. Make sure you come back and tell us how the retake went!


The problem with what you recommend is that it's a fantasy. With her GPA, she's looking at something close to 0% likelihood of realizing her dream. Probably the closest OP will come is in spending three years at a CA law school, and that's just delaying reality. You're spot on about the job prospects, but she isn't going to garner enough merit aid to make it a worthwhile investment at any school she could attend.

It's a tough reality, but CA schools are very stingy, very expensive, and the market is flooded with graduates. Even with an impressive LSAT score (~170), you're looking at significant debt at a good school like UCLA which still isn't going to guarantee you a job (and westwood is one of the most expensive places to live).

OP, I think you should adjust your sights to a legal market outside of CA, at least initially. It's not to say what you hope to do is impossible, but it's so exceedingly unlikely that you'll probably end up spending all of your savings, go significantly into debt, and still be struggling to get a job at all, to say nothing of attaining some kind of dream job. The schools just won't offer you enough aid no matter what you score to warrant consideration at those schools. If you had a GPA over median/75th it would be a different story, but with ~25% and the LSAT improvement needed, it will not just be an uphill battle, it'll be a paraplegic everest climb.

edit: because I care

LSN profiles for <3.5 acceptances and corresponding self-reported merit aid:
Hastings 2011-2012 | 45.3% employed, $259,171 resident COA per LST
Loyola 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $259,362 COA per LST
Pepperdine 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $255,651 COA per LST
UC Davis 2011-2012 | 55.4% employed, $237,705 resident COA per LST
USC 2011-2012 | 63.8% employed, $272,261 COA per LST
UCLA 2011-2012 | 61.3% employed, $244,174 resident COA per LST

Note that LST's COA is an admitted under-estimation of both projected tuition increases (3% factored versus 5-8% actual) and debt repayment. Their projections assume that you will begin payment upon graduation and will be gainfully employed, which is worse than coin-flip odds at some of these schools.


Great post. When I said that I pretty much figured that the OP wasn't going to get a huge scholarship from UCH or UCD. For all intents and purposes they simply don't exist, especially not for splitters. I thought it might be possible at Pep/Loyola/USD just because their standards are lower in general but I admit that I just assumed that and didn't do any research. Thanks for actually doing that, I wouldn't want to willfully lead someone astray or give them false hope.

So for splitters who want CA it looks like it really is pretty much T14 or bust?

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Rahviveh
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:57 pm

BigZuck wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know a Californian who graduated from Cal, moved to AZ for a couple years and attended ASU law school, then tried to move back to CA and searched for a job for a year before finding any work. I think she lives in Redding or some godforsaken place in Northern CA. She has $130000 of debt and a legal aid job that pays 50K or so. This is very bad.

Retake the LSAT, score high enough to get a HUGE scholarship from the respected schools in the region of the state that you want to work (Davis/Hastings for northern CA, Loyola/Pep for LA, USD for San Diego) and even once you go there brace yourself for the reality that you might never work as a lawyer with a degree from one of these schools. There's like a 40% chance of that happening. I assume that your GPA will not get you into Stanford, Cal, UCLA or USC but if you score super high then feel free to apply to the latter two.

Given your goals and numbers right now you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, disqualified from attending law school. A desire to be a lawyer and some extra cash to blow is not enough reason to go to just any old law school. But hope is not lost! A high LSAT can work wonders. Good luck, we are all rooting for you. Make sure you come back and tell us how the retake went!


The problem with what you recommend is that it's a fantasy. With her GPA, she's looking at something close to 0% likelihood of realizing her dream. Probably the closest OP will come is in spending three years at a CA law school, and that's just delaying reality. You're spot on about the job prospects, but she isn't going to garner enough merit aid to make it a worthwhile investment at any school she could attend.

It's a tough reality, but CA schools are very stingy, very expensive, and the market is flooded with graduates. Even with an impressive LSAT score (~170), you're looking at significant debt at a good school like UCLA which still isn't going to guarantee you a job (and westwood is one of the most expensive places to live).

OP, I think you should adjust your sights to a legal market outside of CA, at least initially. It's not to say what you hope to do is impossible, but it's so exceedingly unlikely that you'll probably end up spending all of your savings, go significantly into debt, and still be struggling to get a job at all, to say nothing of attaining some kind of dream job. The schools just won't offer you enough aid no matter what you score to warrant consideration at those schools. If you had a GPA over median/75th it would be a different story, but with ~25% and the LSAT improvement needed, it will not just be an uphill battle, it'll be a paraplegic everest climb.

edit: because I care

LSN profiles for <3.5 acceptances and corresponding self-reported merit aid:
Hastings 2011-2012 | 45.3% employed, $259,171 resident COA per LST
Loyola 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $259,362 COA per LST
Pepperdine 2011-2012 | 41.9% employed, $255,651 COA per LST
UC Davis 2011-2012 | 55.4% employed, $237,705 resident COA per LST
USC 2011-2012 | 63.8% employed, $272,261 COA per LST
UCLA 2011-2012 | 61.3% employed, $244,174 resident COA per LST

Note that LST's COA is an admitted under-estimation of both projected tuition increases (3% factored versus 5-8% actual) and debt repayment. Their projections assume that you will begin payment upon graduation and will be gainfully employed, which is worse than coin-flip odds at some of these schools.


Great post. When I said that I pretty much figured that the OP wasn't going to get a huge scholarship from UCH or UCD. For all intents and purposes they simply don't exist, especially not for splitters. I thought it might be possible at Pep/Loyola/USD just because their standards are lower in general but I admit that I just assumed that and didn't do any research. Thanks for actually doing that, I wouldn't want to willfully lead someone astray or give them false hope.

So for splitters who want CA it looks like it really is pretty much T14 or bust?


http://myLSN.info/5z48vl

Basically. And even the non-CA non-T14 options are something like 50-70k at WUSTL. I'd rather go to NW or UVA at sticker if I was in that situation

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:06 pm

It's not only the over-saturation of CA's job market, but it's CA's high cost of living and other higher costs that need to be added into the mix.

Living/working in LA really teaches you how nuts people can be sometimes. I wouldn't risk that debt load unless at one of the top schools and I even extend my list further than others would: USD, UCLA, UC-Irvine, USC, Stanford, UC-Berk.. Outside of these, just don't do it.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby dingbat » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:43 pm

BearsGrl wrote:It's not only the over-saturation of CA's job market, but it's CA's high cost of living and other higher costs that need to be added into the mix.

Living/working in LA really teaches you how nuts people can be sometimes. I wouldn't risk that debt load unless at one of the top schools and I even extend my list further than others would: USD, UCLA, UC-Irvine, USC, Stanford, UC-Berk.. Outside of these, just don't do it.

LOL at UCI

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:49 pm

dingbat wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:It's not only the over-saturation of CA's job market, but it's CA's high cost of living and other higher costs that need to be added into the mix.

Living/working in LA really teaches you how nuts people can be sometimes. I wouldn't risk that debt load unless at one of the top schools and I even extend my list further than others would: USD, UCLA, UC-Irvine, USC, Stanford, UC-Berk.. Outside of these, just don't do it.

LOL at UCI


LOL at anyone not knowing how the CA mindset works. Sorry that you don't get it, because you probably never lived in CA, but for the Southern half of CA, UC-I will ALWAYS be a solid school to go to. You will never convince me otherwise.

And Irvine is a much better school to shoot for if you want the Newport area because there's a 2 hour driving difference minimum from Irvine to LA. If you don't live in the LA area, don't comment about things that you don't know.

People who choose UC-I are not choosing to go to LA for long-term job prospects. Period.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby dingbat » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:00 pm

BearsGrl wrote:LOL at anyone not knowing how the CA mindset works. Sorry that you don't get it, because you probably never lived in CA, but for the Southern half of CA, UC-I will ALWAYS be a solid school to go to. You will never convince me otherwise.

And Irvine is a much better school to shoot for if you want the Newport area because there's a 2 hour driving difference minimum from Irvine to LA. If you don't live in the LA area, don't comment about things that you don't know.

I understand the reputation of UCI and its location. However, it is still a new, untested, law school. leaving out Stanford and Berkeley (and the rest of the T14) southern California is pretty much dominated by UCLA and USC, while USD does ok in and around San Diego, but can't by any stretch be considered a top school. At this point, there's no reason to believe UCI will be any better than USD. A lot of legal hiring is through the alumni base, or through established networks (through the alumni base) and Pepperdine has an edge on UCI there. So far, UCI has a lot of hype, and a superstar dean who is doing everything he can to make sure UCI becomes a success, but until it is a top school, it shouldn't be treated as one.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:19 pm

dingbat wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:LOL at anyone not knowing how the CA mindset works. Sorry that you don't get it, because you probably never lived in CA, but for the Southern half of CA, UC-I will ALWAYS be a solid school to go to. You will never convince me otherwise.

And Irvine is a much better school to shoot for if you want the Newport area because there's a 2 hour driving difference minimum from Irvine to LA. If you don't live in the LA area, don't comment about things that you don't know.

I understand the reputation of UCI and its location. However, it is still a new, untested, law school. leaving out Stanford and Berkeley (and the rest of the T14) southern California is pretty much dominated by UCLA and USC, while USD does ok in and around San Diego, but can't by any stretch be considered a top school. At this point, there's no reason to believe UCI will be any better than USD. A lot of legal hiring is through the alumni base, or through established networks (through the alumni base) and Pepperdine has an edge on UCI there. So far, UCI has a lot of hype, and a superstar dean who is doing everything he can to make sure UCI becomes a success, but until it is a top school, it shouldn't be treated as one.


Wowsa. There is so much wrong in this. Pepperdine and UC-I are peers. UC-I will be a solid law school option because UC-I is a solid school. It has nothing to do with UC-I not being accredited. No one in CA is going to think that UC-I is a lesser school than USD/Pepperdine/Loyola/Southwestern. These are all peers, but UCI is going to be better for direct access for Southern Non-LA. I know this because I've worked in both LA/OC County.

People in Southern CA graduated from all sorts of schools - Chapman even has a solid local reputation. Obviously, it's not advisable, but if you are from there, you have super-rich parents and you want a school that makes you feel comfortable, Chapman could be a viable option for a select group of people.

And I strongly believe that UC-I will always be on the same level as USD, making it a solid choice if you're an in-state person. Is it the best? Perhaps not. Is it vastly lesser than UCLA/USC in terms of a CA mindset? No.

People going to USC/UCLA are not seeking out OC County. LA County is vastly different culturally/lifestyle-wise than OC County.
Last edited by BearsGrl on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:23 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
dingbat wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:LOL at anyone not knowing how the CA mindset works. Sorry that you don't get it, because you probably never lived in CA, but for the Southern half of CA, UC-I will ALWAYS be a solid school to go to. You will never convince me otherwise.

And Irvine is a much better school to shoot for if you want the Newport area because there's a 2 hour driving difference minimum from Irvine to LA. If you don't live in the LA area, don't comment about things that you don't know.

I understand the reputation of UCI and its location. However, it is still a new, untested, law school. leaving out Stanford and Berkeley (and the rest of the T14) southern California is pretty much dominated by UCLA and USC, while USD does ok in and around San Diego, but can't by any stretch be considered a top school. At this point, there's no reason to believe UCI will be any better than USD. A lot of legal hiring is through the alumni base, or through established networks (through the alumni base) and Pepperdine has an edge on UCI there. So far, UCI has a lot of hype, and a superstar dean who is doing everything he can to make sure UCI becomes a success, but until it is a top school, it shouldn't be treated as one.


Wowsa. There is so much wrong in this. Pepperdine and UC-I are peers. UC-I will be a solid law school option because UC-I is a solid school. It has nothing to do with UC-I not being accredited. No one in CA is going to think that UC-I is a lesser school than USD/Pepperdine/Loyola/Southwestern. These are all peers, but UCI is going to better for direct access for Southern Non-LA. I know this because I've worked in both LA/OC County.

People in Southern CA graduated from all sorts of schools - Chapman even has a solid local reputation. Obviously, it's not advisable, but if you are from there, you have super-rich parents and you want a school that makes you feel comfortable, Chapman could be a viable option for a select group of people.

And I strongly believe that UC-I will always be on the same level as USD, making it a solid choice if you're an in-state person. Is it the best? Perhaps not. Is it vastly lesser than UCLA/USC in terms of a CA mindset? No.


If Pepperdine and UCI are peers then UCI is not a solid school. And I am from OC so don't try to play that card. Being in-state or not means nothing with how ridiculous the tuition is at these "public" CA schools. The difference in placement between Pepperdine/Loyola and UCLA/USC is huge, and itll probably be the same gap for UCI.

Also Chapman is an awful school. I know what you're trying to say as far as reputations, because Chapman and UCI do have great names here, but its not reflected in their employment stats

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:34 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
dingbat wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:LOL at anyone not knowing how the CA mindset works. Sorry that you don't get it, because you probably never lived in CA, but for the Southern half of CA, UC-I will ALWAYS be a solid school to go to. You will never convince me otherwise.

And Irvine is a much better school to shoot for if you want the Newport area because there's a 2 hour driving difference minimum from Irvine to LA. If you don't live in the LA area, don't comment about things that you don't know.

I understand the reputation of UCI and its location. However, it is still a new, untested, law school. leaving out Stanford and Berkeley (and the rest of the T14) southern California is pretty much dominated by UCLA and USC, while USD does ok in and around San Diego, but can't by any stretch be considered a top school. At this point, there's no reason to believe UCI will be any better than USD. A lot of legal hiring is through the alumni base, or through established networks (through the alumni base) and Pepperdine has an edge on UCI there. So far, UCI has a lot of hype, and a superstar dean who is doing everything he can to make sure UCI becomes a success, but until it is a top school, it shouldn't be treated as one.


Wowsa. There is so much wrong in this. Pepperdine and UC-I are peers. UC-I will be a solid law school option because UC-I is a solid school. It has nothing to do with UC-I not being accredited. No one in CA is going to think that UC-I is a lesser school than USD/Pepperdine/Loyola/Southwestern. These are all peers, but UCI is going to better for direct access for Southern Non-LA. I know this because I've worked in both LA/OC County.

People in Southern CA graduated from all sorts of schools - Chapman even has a solid local reputation. Obviously, it's not advisable, but if you are from there, you have super-rich parents and you want a school that makes you feel comfortable, Chapman could be a viable option for a select group of people.

And I strongly believe that UC-I will always be on the same level as USD, making it a solid choice if you're an in-state person. Is it the best? Perhaps not. Is it vastly lesser than UCLA/USC in terms of a CA mindset? No.


If Pepperdine and UCI are peers then UCI is not a solid school. And I am from OC so don't try to play that card. Being in-state or not means nothing with how ridiculous the tuition is at these "public" CA schools. The difference in placement between Pepperdine/Loyola and UCLA/USC is huge, and itll probably be the same gap for UCI.

Also Chapman is an awful school. I know what you're trying to say as far as reputations, because Chapman and UCI do have great names here, but its not reflected in their employment stats


What I should have said is that Pepperdine and UC-I, right now, are more peer than UCLA/USC, but I obviously place UC-I third in the LA/OC realm. And obviously LA and OC are vastly different lifestyle-wise so that plus the likelihood of out of state law students makes it less likely that USC/UCLA folks are vying for jobs in San Clemente.

Well blame your Congress/Senate for that. I didn't vote in CA because I knew it would be pointless. I did work in OC politics though. Obviously there is a gap for Pepperdine/Loyola and UCLA/USC.

I never said Chapman was a solid choice for the average person to attend. I know someone that went to Chapman and made it work. And he's not working for a major firm. He has his own practice with at least one other friend. They are making it work. He was dating someone who worked for the government in the OC. I don't know where she attended.

Well, most law schools don't have solid employment stats, and CA as a whole has a horrible economy. It's the reason why I left the state shortly after earning my masters there. That, the ridiculous driving and the high cost on everything and it was a clear move to avoid that debt drain.

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dingbat
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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby dingbat » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:26 pm

^So Pepperdine and UCI are peers now, but Pepperdine is not a great school while UCI is?

LA and OC are very different places, but that doesn't mean people who attend UCLA/USC don't want to live in OC. Would you say people who attend Yale don't want to live outside Connecticut? The simple fact is, people from OC who want to go to a good local law school should look to attend UCLA/USC who are the powerhouses of southern California.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that lay prestige does not translate into employment prospects, so while UCI has a great name, legal hiring doesn't see the school the same way.

I'll keep silent about your friend who went to Chapman, but with regards to your comment that most law schools don't have solid employment stats, the trick is how schools do relative to each other (or at least to schools in the same region)

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby dtl » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:22 pm

Figure my experience might be useful anecdotal information here.


I grew up in California and wanted to end up here. Unfortunately my grades and LSAT were not up to snuff as far as the top CA schools were concerned. After applying nearly everywhere I decided that the U of Arizona was a better bet compared to the schools in CA I got into (USD and Loyola). My reasoning was partly that I was hoping to transfer back, and knew that the better the school I went to the easier transferring was and partly that I figured if I ended up staying at the U of Arizona the job prospects in Arizona were good enough that it may be possible to do my dues in Arizona at a mid-big firm and try to move back to CA laterally.

My first semester at the U of Arizona netted me a 3.898. Happy with this I started looking all over southern california for a 1L summer job. The fact that I was from the U of A made this much, much harder and the job prospects in Arizona were extremely tempting. There were lots and lots of rejections, and the lack of a career office well versed with California was crippling. Despite this, I ended up doing very well my second semester and getting a summer gig at a large Los Angeles based public interest firm. Still, this was not quite what I wanted regardless of how great the experience was. I applied as a transfer throughout california and ended up getting accepted at UCLA - which is where I now go.

OCI at UCLA with a 3.8 from U of Arizona was a fucking catastrophe. I completely struck out. I may not be the best interviewer in the world but I am at least average. Employers in California simply did not want a transfer student when there were such great pickings from top schools in the state and so few jobs to go around. Given that my compatriots in Arizona with lower GPA's and rankings than me were getting very good jobs in Arizona stung a bit, but at the end of the day my family is in Los Angeles and that is important to me.

I just got my grades back from UCLA and did well enough that I think I have a shot at finding a summer job. Still, who the hell knows? I lucked out in the fact that I was able to transfer and last year, even with the impending transfer, UCLA OCI (which blows away U of A's) and a high U of A GPA I was unable to land anything firm based. I am sure a pure U of A grad would have an even harder time.

Not sure if this answers your question or even helps you but given I was in your situation I figured it may be worthwhile to type out. The U of A is an awesome school with a great faculty who really gives a shit and spends time with each student. The personal touches and student/professor interaction that I got used to at the U of A are almost entirely absent at UCLA. If you are not dead set on California it is not a bad choice in and of itself.
Last edited by dtl on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: U of A job placements in CA

Postby dtl » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:24 pm

Also for those who think that Orange County is somehow insulated from UCLA and USC graduates - that just is no longer the case. When people are hungry and want to stay in So. Cal. Orange County looks pretty damned awesome. Irvine very likely has a geographical advantage, but you are still competing with UCLA and USC.




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