Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Best Non-HYS Program for Academia

Columbia
44
24%
NYU
18
10%
Chicago
75
41%
Berkeley
14
8%
Penn
6
3%
Cornell
6
3%
Northwestern
2
1%
Duke
1
1%
Michigan
11
6%
UVA/GULC/UCLA
6
3%
 
Total votes: 183

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:57 am

So TLS, which non-HYS programs have strong records of placing JD and JD/PhD (Economics, Philosophy, etc) grads in academia?

Pick up to 3 and feel free to justify your decision by commenting.

Note: No need for "don't go to law school if you don't want to practice law" comments. One may obviously intend to practice yet also hold academia and becoming a Professor as a passion and viable career option.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:10 am

This is the weirdest poll ever, but Chicago.

zomginternets
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby zomginternets » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:12 am

Columbia or Chicago.

/thread

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:25 am

Tom Joad wrote:This is the weirdest poll ever, but Chicago.


Flattery will get you everywhere.

igo2northwestern
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby igo2northwestern » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:09 am

Chicago, for JD/PhD in Economics at least. Not sure about other fields.

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twenty
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby twenty » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:51 pm

A HLS 2L said about a third of his classmates that gunned for academia actually got it. Too lazy to find the thread.

With T1/T2 schools going under as fast as they are, you're probably about as likely to get a SCOTUS clerkship as academia. That said, Chicago.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:33 pm

Are all the Chicago responses because of actual numbers or just perception of Chi as an academic leaning program?

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laxbrah420
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:35 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Are all the Chicago responses because of actual numbers or just perception of Chi as an academic leaning program?

You made a poll

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bk1
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:38 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:viable career option.

Being a law prof is not in fact a "viable career option" for anybody in the place of a 0L. Few people even from HYS end up as law profs. This is like saying that biglaw is a viable career option for people who attend a T4.

WhirledWorld
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby WhirledWorld » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:42 pm

The premise behind this poll is ridiculous. The law school you attend makes little to no difference in academia placement. What matters is the quality of your publishing. You can be #1 at Yale, EIC of the journal, clerking for the supreme court, and you will still not be hired anywhere until you've proven you can contribute and have contributed (no less than two times post-graduation) to the scholarly conversation.


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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:14 am

twentypercentmore wrote:A HLS 2L said about a third of his classmates that gunned for academia actually got it. Too lazy to find the thread.


Not sure what you mean by this. How would a HLS 2L have classmates actually get academia already? Even if he was talking about the 3Ls he knew as a 1L, pretty much nobody goes straight from law school to academia. Was he saying that he talked to career services people and they told him that?

As for the OP's question: The answer is Chicago, Columbia, or Furman scholar at NYU.

zomginternets
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby zomginternets » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:15 am

WhirledWorld wrote:The premise behind this poll is ridiculous. The law school you attend makes little to no difference in academia placement. What matters is the quality of your publishing. You can be #1 at Yale, EIC of the journal, clerking for the supreme court, and you will still not be hired anywhere until you've proven you can contribute and have contributed (no less than two times post-graduation) to the scholarly conversation.


I suppose the statistics that say otherwise are all lies? I admit that scholarly potential is important, but it's just ridiculous to say that the school you attend (and, apparently, how well you do at the school) makes "little to no difference" in academic placement. I guarantee that all else equal, the guy from Yale is getting the job over the guy from GULC.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:16 am

bk1 wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:viable career option.

Being a law prof is not in fact a "viable career option" for anybody in the place of a 0L. Few people even from HYS end up as law profs. This is like saying that biglaw is a viable career option for people who attend a T4.


TBF, I think being a law prof is a pretty viable career option if you go to Yale.

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bk1
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:19 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:TBF, I think being a law prof is a pretty viable career option if you go to Yale.


True. I was overstating it a bit.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:25 am

WhirledWorld wrote:The premise behind this poll is ridiculous. The law school you attend makes little to no difference in academia placement. What matters is the quality of your publishing. You can be #1 at Yale, EIC of the journal, clerking for the supreme court, and you will still not be hired anywhere until you've proven you can contribute and have contributed (no less than two times post-graduation) to the scholarly conversation.


This is wrong. While you are correct that strength of scholarship is what matters most in the end, your stuff might not even get read through if your resume isn't sparkling enough. For some profs on hiring committees, not going to the top ten schools or so means you have a negative presumption of riskiness that needs to be overcome by having published some great stuff. Also keep in mind that not going to a top school makes it harder to publish in a top journal. Like it or not, people will be making snap judgments about you based on where you went to school, who you clerked for, etc. Sometimes these judgements can be overcome, but sometimes that is all you get and they've moved on.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:26 am

bk1 wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:TBF, I think being a law prof is a pretty viable career option if you go to Yale.


True. I was overstating it a bit.


Probably better to overstate it than understate it. It's generally a bad idea to go to law school with the sole goal of academia.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:41 am

So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:56 am

Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?


Depends. Grades can be very much a means to other ends. Example: For most people at most schools you need great grades to land a COA clerkship and amazing grades to try and get a feeder. (Especially the lower down the law school ranking you go.) I think doing a clerkship for certain judges is much more valuable than what your grades in law school were (as long as they were good) for academia, but your grades will probably have to be spectacular to get those clerkships. So it's a bit weird.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:58 am

Real quick, what's a feeder in that context?

zomginternets
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby zomginternets » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:02 am

Br3v wrote:Real quick, what's a feeder in that context?


A federal COA judge who has a reputation of sending clerks to the US Supreme Court (Kozinski, Garland, Kavanaugh, to name a few).
Last edited by zomginternets on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

zomginternets
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby zomginternets » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:03 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?


Depends. Grades can be very much a means to other ends. Example: For most people at most schools you need great grades to land a COA clerkship and amazing grades to try and get a feeder. (Especially the lower down the law school ranking you go.) I think doing a clerkship for certain judges is much more valuable than what your grades in law school were (as long as they were good) for academia, but your grades will probably have to be spectacular to get those clerkships. So it's a bit weird.



Also, don't forget faculty connections. A close relationship with a faculty mentor, and researching for prominent scholars, is very important; you want a well-known academic to go to bat for you if a hiring committee asks them for their opinion on student x's scholarly potential.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:11 am

zomginternets wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?


Depends. Grades can be very much a means to other ends. Example: For most people at most schools you need great grades to land a COA clerkship and amazing grades to try and get a feeder. (Especially the lower down the law school ranking you go.) I think doing a clerkship for certain judges is much more valuable than what your grades in law school were (as long as they were good) for academia, but your grades will probably have to be spectacular to get those clerkships. So it's a bit weird.



Also, don't forget faculty connections. A close relationship with a faculty mentor, and researching for prominent scholars, is very important; you want a well-known academic to go to bat for you if a hiring committee asks them for their opinion on student x's scholarly potential.


Yeah, very true. I was just listing one example of where grades are important for what they actually get you (and not as important just as grades).

LSTfan
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby LSTfan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:24 am

.
Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:20 am

When I look at the faculty at my school, it appears Yale -> Harvard/Columbia (edge to H) -> everyone else; There's a disproportionate number of grads from the school, but we're still not talking about significant numbers
I vaguely recall looking at a few other schools for this and saw that it was more or less the same (all west coast schools, which might explain no S)




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