Indiana Tech Law School Forum

[Young Marino]

Yeah. I was totally set on ND. Even signed my apartment papers and everything. I negotiated with ND and some CA school. ND gave me more $$$ after negotiations, I withdrew from other school, then other school threw me a full ride and then some. LST #s are similar enough (well, except for the big law + clerkship part). For my PI goals and desire to work instate (plus out of retakes), it was hard to pass up...

...I still sometimes wonder if I made the right decision.

For PI, less debt is almost always the right decision. There's some advantages to getting into a T6 or Berkely, in that you have a better chance at ACLU/SPLC (more selective than Biglaw). Other than that, demonstrated interest in PI law matters more than school prestige.

See, I find this interesting. I've heard people at other schools say "it doesn't matter how much I'm getting into, I'm doing PI=PSLF" I didn't make that decision but to those who did I'll feel really bad if PI doesn't work out.

[ManoftheHour]

Yeah. I was totally set on ND. Even signed my apartment papers and everything. I negotiated with ND and some CA school. ND gave me more $$$ after negotiations, I withdrew from other school, then other school threw me a full ride and then some. LST #s are similar enough (well, except for the big law + clerkship part). For my PI goals and desire to work instate (plus out of retakes), it was hard to pass up...

...I still sometimes wonder if I made the right decision.

For PI, less debt is almost always the right decision. There's some advantages to getting into a T6 or Berkely, in that you have a better chance at ACLU/SPLC (more selective than Biglaw). Other than that, demonstrated interest in PI law matters more than school prestige.

See, I find this interesting. I've heard people at other schools say "it doesn't matter how much I'm getting into, I'm doing PI=PSLF" I didn't make that decision but to those who did I'll feel really bad if PI doesn't work out.

Yeah, it doesn't matter IF you get PI and it works out. But I think it's rather insane to take the gamble if you aren't at a top school (I think HYSCCN have great LRAPs, so you'd still be somewhat safe there). If you don't and you end up at a small firm, unrelated law job that doesn't satisfy PSLF, or unemployed, then you're fucked. Better to err on the side of caution.

[03152016]

might be wrong about this
so please correct me if i'm off-base

are pslf-qualifying jobs in general hard to get?
or is it specifically the jd-required pslf jobs?

i thought of non-jd public service jobs as a possible escape route from the debt
(not that that's a good outcome or anything)

[Tiago Splitter]

might be wrong about this
so please correct me if i'm off-base

are pslf-qualifying jobs in general hard to get?
or is it specifically the jd-required pslf jobs?

i thought of non-jd public service jobs as a possible escape route from the debt
(not that that's a good outcome or anything)

You can go become a middle school teacher or something and get PSLF.

[haus]

might be wrong about this
so please correct me if i'm off-base

are pslf-qualifying jobs in general hard to get?
or is it specifically the jd-required pslf jobs?

i thought of non-jd public service jobs as a possible escape route from the debt
(not that that's a good outcome or anything)

With tight budgets at both fed and most state governments, the number of options are less than they have been. Also I have seen some area that have seen growth (e.g. InfoSec), a good deal of this growth has been directed to contractors vice gov employees. Which I suspect would prevent the people doing this work for the government from being eligible for pslf.

[JCougar]

might be wrong about this
so please correct me if i'm off-base

are pslf-qualifying jobs in general hard to get?
or is it specifically the jd-required pslf jobs?

i thought of non-jd public service jobs as a possible escape route from the debt
(not that that's a good outcome or anything)

With tight budgets at both fed and most state governments, the number of options are less than they have been. Also I have seen some area that have seen growth (e.g. InfoSec), a good deal of this growth has been directed to contractors vice gov employees. Which I suspect would prevent the people doing this work for the government from being eligible for pslf.

Yeah, getting government jobs, especially at the Fed level, but including even the municipal level, is incredibly difficult. Everyone's budget is fucked right now. And the Legal Services Corporation (fed-funded) has also had cuts made to this...and this money goes to a lot of legal aid clinics, etc.

I wouldn't bank on a PSLF job until after this sequester nonsense is over with. And if Republicans win the Senate this fall, it's only going to get worse for the next two years.

[Hand]

Not to show off or anything, but I just spotted pond cummings. I almost went over to ask for a signature.

[BillPackets]

Not to show off or anything, but I just spotted pond cummings. I almost went over to ask for a signature.

Hand r u in Fort Wayne

[Hand]

Not to show off or anything, but I just spotted pond cummings. I almost went over to ask for a signature.

Hand r u in Fort Wayne

cummings came to my town, I verified it, he was on a panel this morning with some fine scholars from institutions such as John Marshall and Drexel

[The Dark Shepard]

cummings is coming to my school. I'm so excited!

[03152016]

wow looks like cummings is spurting everywhere these days

[JCougar]

Just to reiterate, I think getting a PSLF-eligible job right now is at least as hard as getting Biglaw--even though they value somewhat different credentials.

And no, you can't just teach high school if you have a JD. You are over-qualified, and people think you will bounce at the first law job you get. Because you probably will.

[Tiago Splitter]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

[buddyt]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

[Hand]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

They beat Valpo! Someone send for champagne!

[pancakes3]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

It almost makes you forget that IU is reporting 20% of their students are "people of color"

[JCougar]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

Interesting. That's of course (sadly) higher than I thought.

I read that as a signal that the central university is willing to prop this law school up for a while, and that they're in this long-term. A class of 30 with a median of 148 shows they're trying to get this class to be able to actually pass the bar...rather than drop the median to 145 and perhaps get 50 students in there or something and mitigate the financial damage until the school eventually collapses. It probably took a lot of scholly money to get that median.

[BigZuck]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

Interesting. That's of course (sadly) higher than I thought.

I read that as a signal that the central university is willing to prop this law school up for a while, and that they're in this long-term. A class of 30 with a median of 148 shows they're trying to get this class to be able to actually pass the bar...rather than drop the median to 145 and perhaps get 50 students in there or something and mitigate the financial damage until the school eventually collapses. It probably took a lot of scholly money to get that median.

JC- Honestly not trying to be argumentative, just curious:

Is there something special about 148 vs 145? Are people with 148+ more likely to pass the bar? The two scores just seem so close to me, I would think it wouldn't make much of a difference.

[ManoftheHour]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

I love that they don't capitalize andre pond scummings' name in the article.

[20141023]

.

[JCougar]

Second class starting with just 30 students.

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/members ... icle/34969

Median LSAT of 148, I can't even...

Interesting. That's of course (sadly) higher than I thought.

I read that as a signal that the central university is willing to prop this law school up for a while, and that they're in this long-term. A class of 30 with a median of 148 shows they're trying to get this class to be able to actually pass the bar...rather than drop the median to 145 and perhaps get 50 students in there or something and mitigate the financial damage until the school eventually collapses. It probably took a lot of scholly money to get that median.

JC- Honestly not trying to be argumentative, just curious:

Is there something special about 148 vs 145? Are people with 148+ more likely to pass the bar? The two scores just seem so close to me, I would think it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Probably not much, but I was just trying to think of some reason why they'd go for a class size of 30 when their initial plans seems to budget for a class of 100. The 148 suggests they had room to admit more people but didn't. I had thought that right around 150 was where bar passage rates on average started declining quickly.

But from Regulus' chart, it's hard to tell if there's a large enough difference to matter.

[JCougar]

Actually, I do want to question Regulus' presentation of data...Valpo only admitted a class of 143 last fall, so they wouldn't have taken the bar yet. With the way medians have been moving around in the last 4 years, there might not be a sufficient relationship between their medians now and the medians of the class that provided their most recent bar passage rates.

[20141023]

.

[JCougar]

Actually, I do want to question Regulus' presentation of data...Valpo only admitted a class of 143 last fall, so they wouldn't have taken the bar yet. With the way medians have been moving around in the last 4 years, there might not be a sufficient relationship between their medians now and the medians of the class that provided their most recent bar passage rates.

The point is that some schools in the list have bar passage rates on par with Stanford (albeit in different states). Shittier schools spend a lot more of their resources teaching classes about how to pass the bar exam instead of theoretical T14 bullshit, so you can't really compare LSAT scores and bar results.

But LSAT is correlated with first-time bar passage rate. Can a TTTT school make up for that by turning 3L into a year-long bar prep class? Probably somewhat.

[Hat Trick]

"Students in this second class, he said, are coming from undergraduate institutions as diverse as Princeton University, University of Pennsylvania and Weber State University along with schools throughout Indiana including Ball State University, DePauw University and IU Bloomington."

Who the hell goes to Princeton for undergrad and then Indiana Tech for law school?