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TLSwag
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Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:20 pm

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Last edited by TLSwag on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

TLSwag
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Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:37 pm

bump - any help is greatly appreciated, on a small timetable!

locthebloke
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby locthebloke » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:42 pm

Neither school is worth it without significant guaranteed cash money. I wouldn't take either for anything less than a full tuition scholarship that's guaranteed. And even then you have to ask yourself whether these schools, even if free, are worth the time and energy invested. With a Fordham JD, how do you expect to compete with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Ivy grads, which filter heavily into NYC. It's suicide. The NY market is hideously saturated and with students with better than a Fordham JD.

Paying sticker for Georgetown is insane. It's a JD factory. But assuming, as a thought exercise, both schools offer you full scholarship, Georgetown would probably be better. It still has a prestigious name, and nothing is quite as much of a shit-show as the NYC market..

I'd say step back and re-take or don't go to law school. Pretty simple.

TLSwag
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 pm

locthebloke wrote:Neither school is worth it without significant guaranteed cash money. I wouldn't take either for anything less than a full tuition scholarship that's guaranteed. And even then you have to ask yourself whether these schools, even if free, are worth the time and energy invested. With a Fordham JD, how do you expect to compete with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Ivy grads, which filter heavily into NYC. It's suicide. The NY market is hideously saturated and with students with better than a Fordham JD.

Paying sticker for Georgetown is insane. It's a JD factory. But assuming, as a thought exercise, both schools offer you full scholarship, Georgetown would probably be better. It still has a prestigious name, and nothing is quite as much of a shit-show as the NYC market..

I'd say step back and re-take or don't go to law school. Pretty simple.

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Last edited by TLSwag on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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top30man
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby top30man » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:49 pm

TLSwag wrote:
locthebloke wrote:Neither school is worth it without significant guaranteed cash money. I wouldn't take either for anything less than a full tuition scholarship that's guaranteed. And even then you have to ask yourself whether these schools, even if free, are worth the time and energy invested. With a Fordham JD, how do you expect to compete with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Ivy grads, which filter heavily into NYC. It's suicide. The NY market is hideously saturated and with students with better than a Fordham JD.

Paying sticker for Georgetown is insane. It's a JD factory. But assuming, as a thought exercise, both schools offer you full scholarship, Georgetown would probably be better. It still has a prestigious name, and nothing is quite as much of a shit-show as the NYC market..

I'd say step back and re-take or don't go to law school. Pretty simple.


ok that's not really helpful homie. my choice is between these and besides you don't know what total COA is. what if i told you due to savings, parent contributions F is nearly free and GT would be ~75K

i'm asking how much more GT is worth then Fordham


That poster is way off base. Probably trolling, but still. 30k a year is a lot of money from Fordham. It makes the school actually a decent price. GULC is risky at sticker, but if there is significant parental contribution it's less of a risk. I think this comes down to how much you want big law. GULC doesn't give you tremendous odds, but they are far ahead of Fordham.

Eta: you can try to negotiate with gulc. They didn't budge much this cycle but it's worth a phone call.

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Stringer6
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby Stringer6 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:51 pm

TLSwag wrote:
locthebloke wrote:Neither school is worth it without significant guaranteed cash money. I wouldn't take either for anything less than a full tuition scholarship that's guaranteed. And even then you have to ask yourself whether these schools, even if free, are worth the time and energy invested. With a Fordham JD, how do you expect to compete with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Ivy grads, which filter heavily into NYC. It's suicide. The NY market is hideously saturated and with students with better than a Fordham JD.

Paying sticker for Georgetown is insane. It's a JD factory. But assuming, as a thought exercise, both schools offer you full scholarship, Georgetown would probably be better. It still has a prestigious name, and nothing is quite as much of a shit-show as the NYC market..

I'd say step back and re-take or don't go to law school. Pretty simple.


ok that's not really helpful homie. my choice is between these and besides you don't know what total COA is. what if i told you due to savings, parent contributions F is nearly free and GT would be ~75K

i'm asking how much more GT is worth then Fordham


i'd probably go to Georgetown. Fordham wouldn't be completely insane though, especially if you want to work in NY.

TLSwag
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:53 pm

top30man wrote:
TLSwag wrote:
locthebloke wrote:Neither school is worth it without significant guaranteed cash money. I wouldn't take either for anything less than a full tuition scholarship that's guaranteed. And even then you have to ask yourself whether these schools, even if free, are worth the time and energy invested. With a Fordham JD, how do you expect to compete with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Ivy grads, which filter heavily into NYC. It's suicide. The NY market is hideously saturated and with students with better than a Fordham JD.

Paying sticker for Georgetown is insane. It's a JD factory. But assuming, as a thought exercise, both schools offer you full scholarship, Georgetown would probably be better. It still has a prestigious name, and nothing is quite as much of a shit-show as the NYC market..

I'd say step back and re-take or don't go to law school. Pretty simple.


ok that's not really helpful homie. my choice is between these and besides you don't know what total COA is. what if i told you due to savings, parent contributions F is nearly free and GT would be ~75K

i'm asking how much more GT is worth then Fordham


That poster is way off base. Probably trolling, but still. 30k a year is a lot of money from Fordham. It makes the school actually a decent price. GULC is risky at sticker, but if there is significant parental contribution it's less of a risk. I think this comes down to how much you want big law. GULC doesn't give you tremendous odds, but they are far ahead of Fordham.


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Last edited by TLSwag on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

locthebloke
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby locthebloke » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:55 pm

Well, alright, homie. Thanks for clarifying. But hey, if you want to go to Fordham for "nearly free" (whatever that actually means) Then it's not a horrible option, but it could still be a bad one. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the investment in time and energy. Your chances of getting gainful legal employment with a Fordham JD aren't great. And your JD will hurt your prospects in looking for employment in other realms. JDs "overqualify" you outside the legal sphere.

Having 75k in debt for a GT JD is absurd. Don't go to GT. Fordham if you must, but I'd say don't go. Why are you so dead set on law school. There are many more profitable, more fulfilling, less stressful and uncertain things to do with 3 years of your life.

"Off-base". Okay. Whatever. :roll: :roll:

TLSwag
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:00 pm

locthebloke wrote:Well, alright, homie. Thanks for clarifying. But hey, if you want to go to Fordham for "nearly free" (whatever that actually means) Then it's not a horrible option, but it could still be a bad one. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the investment in time and energy. Your chances of getting gainful legal employment with a Fordham JD aren't great. And your JD will hurt your prospects in looking for employment in other realms. JDs "overqualify" you outside the legal sphere.

Having 75k in debt for a GT JD is absurd. Don't go to GT. Fordham if you must, but I'd say don't go. Why are you so dead set on law school. There are many more profitable, more fulfilling, less stressful and uncertain things to do with 3 years of your life.

"Off-base". Okay. Whatever. :roll: :roll:


go troll another thread man. i think ud be hard-pressed to find people on this site (which is saying something) that would call 75K in debt for a GT JD absurd... other people are giving meaningful advice that is actually constructive to my situation.

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flem
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby flem » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:07 pm

locthebloke wrote:Well, alright, homie. Thanks for clarifying. But hey, if you want to go to Fordham for "nearly free" (whatever that actually means) Then it's not a horrible option, but it could still be a bad one. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the investment in time and energy. Your chances of getting gainful legal employment with a Fordham JD aren't great. And your JD will hurt your prospects in looking for employment in other realms. JDs "overqualify" you outside the legal sphere.

Having 75k in debt for a GT JD is absurd. Don't go to GT. Fordham if you must, but I'd say don't go. Why are you so dead set on law school. There are many more profitable, more fulfilling, less stressful and uncertain things to do with 3 years of your life.

"Off-base". Okay. Whatever. :roll: :roll:


It's because it's not a TOP 8 SCHOOL MIRITE

Also Georgetown for 75K is a great deal. Enjoy and good luck.

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby dingbat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:24 pm

Based on 2010 data, Fordham placed 33% in biglaw&federal clerkship, 37% including midlaw, and about 52% in real legal jobs, while Georgetown placed 44%, 46% and 70%, respectively.

Coming debt-free out of Fordham, you should be looking at those last two numbers, 37% corporate and 52% overall vs Georgetown's first two numbers, biglaw for a good outcome, midlaw as a backup that can afford to pay off the loan. There's a reasonable gap, but you need to decide whether improving your odds by that little is worth the debt.

I'm also a believer that going to a lower ranked school should give you a better class rank, although how big a difference is debatable (note: 0L here)

In my opinion, it's a close call, with Fordham being the safer option

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Robespierre
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby Robespierre » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:49 pm

The Class of 2011 ABA data shows GULC with 37% going to 100+ firms or federal clerkships, and 63% going to full time, long term, JD-required jobs. For Fordham the corresponding figures are 27% and 57%. That significant but not huge differential, plus whatever general prestige advantage GULC has, doesn't impress me as being worth 75K. Especially since (a) you want NYC where Fordham is at its strongest, and (b) the way the numbers line up in your particular case, you could be debt-free at F. There is a LOT to be said for being debt-free.

Congrats on having great choices.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:19 pm

I don't think 75k for GULC is a bad deal, especially given your ties to DC.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:25 pm

TLSwag wrote:basically if my preferences are: Big Law>>>>>>>>>>>NYC>>DC what would you do?


Does this mean Big Law in either>>>>>>>>>> (and then)NYC>>DC for midlaw? If so, I vote GTown

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

1. Ask Fordham for more money.
2. Ask Georgetown for money.

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby dingbat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:1. Ask Fordham for more money.
2. Ask Georgetown for money.

1) not gonna happen (he's already at their maximum)
2) unlikely if he got pulled off the waitlist (but no harm in asking)

TLSwag
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Re: help georgetown v. fordham ($$)

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:03 pm

RodneyBoonfield wrote:
TLSwag wrote:basically if my preferences are: Big Law>>>>>>>>>>>NYC>>DC what would you do?


Does this mean Big Law in either>>>>>>>>>> (and then)NYC>>DC for midlaw? If so, I vote GTown


yes, sorry for the confusion but that's exactly what i mean.

TLSwag
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:06 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:1. Ask Fordham for more money.
2. Ask Georgetown for money.


so I did indeed ask Fordham for more, and as dingbat indicated, 30K/year is apparently their highest award. i emailed georgetown and am awaiting patiently. i don't really expect anything, but i would think even a small offer would probably seal the deal for me.

in the meantime, i am just trying to justify if GULC is worth ~$75-80 K more then F. it's not even the debt that bothers me, im not really a risk adverse person and I just want the best for my long-term career. I'm leaning towards yes
Last edited by TLSwag on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby flem » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:24 pm

TLSwag wrote:in the meantime, i am just trying to justify if GULC is worth ~$75-80 K/year more then F. it's not even the debt that bothers me, im not really a risk adverse person and I just want the best for my long-term career. I'm leaning towards yes


Yes

Also what are your numbers?

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dingbat
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby dingbat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:25 pm

TLSwag wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:1. Ask Fordham for more money.
2. Ask Georgetown for money.


so I did indeed ask Fordham for more, and as dingbat indicated, 30K/year is apparently their highest award. i emailed georgetown and am awaiting patiently. i don't really expect anything, but i would think even a small offer would probably seal the deal for me.

in the meantime, i am just trying to justify if GULC is worth ~$75-80 K/year more then F. it's not even the debt that bothers me, im not really a risk adverse person and I just want the best for my long-term career. I'm leaning towards yes

I was in the same boat (different T14, though) and I chose Fordham. But, I'm in a different position from you, and the finances matter a bit more

TLSwag
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby TLSwag » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:28 pm

flem wrote:
TLSwag wrote:in the meantime, i am just trying to justify if GULC is worth ~$75-80 K/year more then F. it's not even the debt that bothers me, im not really a risk adverse person and I just want the best for my long-term career. I'm leaning towards yes


Yes

Also what are your numbers?


169 / 3.4 - lets just say i consider myself pretty fortunate to be in this situation

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top30man
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby top30man » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:54 pm

TLSwag wrote:
flem wrote:
TLSwag wrote:in the meantime, i am just trying to justify if GULC is worth ~$75-80 K/year more then F. it's not even the debt that bothers me, im not really a risk adverse person and I just want the best for my long-term career. I'm leaning towards yes


Yes

Also what are your numbers?


169 / 3.4 - lets just say i consider myself pretty fortunate to be in this situation

GULC must be getting pretty desperate. I got in this cycle with a 169/3.7 and I thought that was crazy. If those are your goals, I'd go Georgetown. It doesn't get much credit from tls but I think it's a great school for this price.

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2014
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:07 pm

GULC is worth 75k more than Fordham imo. It is not worth sticker, but you and your family's choice to spend your savings on it is none of my concern.

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ImTheWiz
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby ImTheWiz » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:54 pm

Dude, if you're not going to Yale full scholly then you should probably, like, reconsider this whole law thing... roughly 97.3% of Georgetown JDs end up working at TGI Fridays (but with great advancement opportunities!!).

But, in all seriousness, congrats on that email bud. I think Georgetown is the way to go, unless of course you have a driving desire to start your NYC life this fall.

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indigomachine
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Re: Georgetown v. Fordham ($$) ??

Postby indigomachine » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:08 pm

Go GULC man. I'm not the biggest fan of GULC, and I still would consider this a great deal if you're graduating 75k in debt. Congrats :)




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