Is Michigan worth sticker?

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Kramer
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Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby Kramer » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:03 am

Obviously the answer to this question will differ according to personal circumstances. Here are mine:

-No UG debt
-Home region is the South, but don't necessarily want to return after law school. I'm very much interested in Big Law in the "big" markets (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.)...though I admittedly do not know what that entails.
-No $ at any T10 schools, though some smaller scholarships to bottom T14 and Vandy

Seems like the COA at Michigan is lower than most T14, but the debt I'd take on by spending three years in Ann Arbor is nevertheless scary as hell. Is it worth it?

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bk1
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby bk1 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:05 am

Kramer wrote:I'm very much interested in Big Law in the "big" markets (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.)...though I admittedly do not know what that entails.

You should figure out what it entails (unless by "do not know" you merely mean you "do not know what it is like to experience it").

Kramer wrote:-No $ at any T10 schools, though some smaller scholarships to bottom T14 and Vandy
Seems like the COA at Michigan is lower than most T14, but the debt I'd take on by spending three years in Ann Arbor is nevertheless scary as hell. Is it worth it?

The distinction between T10 and T14 is meaningless. If a scholarship from a school like Duke/Cornell makes it cheaper than UMich sticker then you should probably take Duke/Cornell.

ETA: This seems hypothetical since it's almost August...

Kramer
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby Kramer » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:09 am

Not hypothetical. I'm slated to start at Michigan this fall, but I grow a little queasy every time I log-in to my financial aid page and see nearly $70k in loans for the upcoming year.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:12 am

I think the answer is probably yes, although what biglaw generally entails is mindnumbingly boring detail work and being the bitch of some partner who may or may not be at all tolerable for a few years minimum.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:17 am

Sure, assuming you don't suck at it. I'm not being glib, Mich is probably a good investment if you finish in the top half. Otherwise, maybe not so much.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:45 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:Sure, assuming you don't suck at it. I'm not being glib, Mich is probably a good investment if you finish in the top half. Otherwise, maybe not so much.


I.e OP NO Michigan at sticker is not a good idea. Frankly, if that scholly at Vandy was half or better you should have gone there. Can you withdraw from Michigan at this point? You really shouldn't go to Michigan at sticker ITE if you can go somewhere like Vandy with money. Did you apply to UTexas?

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby UnamSanctam » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:24 am

On the bright side, it seems like you don't know where you want to go to work. Michigan's lack of home market means that it tends to hit several cities, although obviously NYC is the biggest. If you're unsure right now, Michigan is a decent choice. Scholarships to other lower T14 schools may not really be game changers depending on how small the scholarships are.

On the other hand, yeah, debt is scary. But if you royally screw up, I guess you got dat LRAP, right?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:02 pm

Entirely depends on how debt adverse you are. I personally would easily go to Michigan at sticker but I am not very debt adverse.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:55 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:Sure, assuming you don't suck at it. I'm not being glib, Mich is probably a good investment if you finish in the top half. Otherwise, maybe not so much.

I.e OP NO Michigan at sticker is not a good idea. Frankly, if that scholly at Vandy was half or better you should have gone there. Can you withdraw from Michigan at this point? You really shouldn't go to Michigan at sticker ITE if you can go somewhere like Vandy with money. Did you apply to UTexas?


Half scholly at Vandy is still well over $150k total COA, you'll need biglaw to pay that off. UMich's recently underwhelming biglaw placement was still better than Vandy's, and they'll place better for clerkships as well. Unless someone really wanted to stay in the South, I'd pick Mich at sticker over Vandy half scholly any day.

If it were me, I'd go to Michigan and drop out if I didn't end up in the top 2/3 after 1L.

otnemem
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby otnemem » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:13 pm

I might be more risk averse than some people here, but if I were in your shoes I don't think I'd go to Michigan at sticker. Considering you would be looking at 250k of debt when you graduate, there's probably a 1/3 chance you will be in serious trouble in 3 years. I'm not ok with those odds, although you wouldn't be completely crazy if you were.

Next cycle will likely be easier (June LSATs were down another 5.9%) so reapplying might be a good idea. Plus you would have the option of EDing somewhere better or maybe taking money at a school like UT of Vandy.

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flem
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby flem » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:15 pm

I wouldn't go to Michigan without Midwest ties so you can mass mail GR/Detroit firms as a backup if you strike out at OCI, but that's me.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:22 pm

OP: Depends upon your goals & your other options. Need more info.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:29 pm

flem wrote:I wouldn't go to Michigan without Midwest ties so you can mass mail GR/Detroit firms as a backup if you strike out at OCI, but that's me.


This is why I said he should do Vandy with a half scholarship to the guy who said that half scholly at Vandy isn't any better. If you don't get good enough grades to land big market biglaw you're going to end up having to go with your home market/region for the best chances at landing a job. I would be VERY leary of going to Michigan at sticker if you aren't from the midwest--which the OP isn't. OP did you get a scholarship at Duke? Michigan at sticker is VERY dangerous ITE for someone not from the midwest.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby UnamSanctam » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:49 pm

flem wrote:I wouldn't go to Michigan without Midwest ties so you can mass mail GR/Detroit firms as a backup if you strike out at OCI, but that's me.


I wasn't even aware GR had a market worth mass mailing.

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flem
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby flem » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:53 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
I wasn't even aware GR had a market worth mass mailing.


Big Dutch Reformed law breh

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skers
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby skers » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:31 am

OP. First, you've gotta decide exactly what market(s) you're interested in working in. I wouldn't go into any law school (with the probable exception of YHS) banking on Chicago. Grade cut-offs are awfully high, a ton of people want to work there, and in your particular case without local market ties going to Michigan isn't suitable for establishing Chicago ties the same way going to U of C or NW is. CA might be a similarly tough nut to crack if you're sitting around median and you're trying to justify in interviews South->Michigan->West Coast. NYC is definitely doable from Michigan.

I think sticker is worth it for Michigan ITE, especially with no UG debt, but the answer of should you go there really depends on what acceptances and $ you're looking at elsewhere in the t14 and where you'd like to practice.

gnuwheels
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Re: Is Michigan worth sticker?

Postby gnuwheels » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:10 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:Sure, assuming you don't suck at it. I'm not being glib, Mich is probably a good investment if you finish in the top half. Otherwise, maybe not so much.


I.e OP NO Michigan at sticker is not a good idea. Frankly, if that scholly at Vandy was half or better you should have gone there. Can you withdraw from Michigan at this point? You really shouldn't go to Michigan at sticker ITE if you can go somewhere like Vandy with money. Did you apply to UTexas?


I think the top half/bottom half thing is even worse than it is made to sound here. In the michigan students taking questions thread, students were basically saying that certainly less than 50% of students were getting firm jobs, and of those a decent chunk were below market. That seems to match up to recent numbers that confirmed michigan underperforming relative to pretty much every other T10, and even some T14, so there are some serious issues there. so...yea sticker sounds really scary.

And just full disclosure i'm starting at michigan in a few weeks, just not at sticker.




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