Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

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Hutz_and_Goodman
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Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:48 pm

I looked around the TLS forum, and I didn't find a thread like this--so I decided to make one. There is at least one specialized thread (choosing WUSTL full ride over higher ranked school), but I think there is a need to have a more general thread for people who accept full ride/full ride+ scholarships at lower ranked schools over paying tuition at higher ranked schools, since it seems that this is an increasingly common move in this economy and legal market.

It would be great for everyone applying to law schools, and choosing law schools, to have a better set of statistical information about how people at lower ranked schools with full ride/full ride+ do on the job market as compared to those who choose a more prestigious school with debt.

It would also be useful to have a place to discuss strategies for evaluating the value of a full ride offer vs. considerable debt at a better school. In other words, we have NLJ250 placement numbers for each school, but there is no way to easily "look up" the expected outcomes for the subset of full ride/full ride+ people at a given school or range of schools. But I think there is a surprising amount of information to be gathered about this type of choice, and hopefully this thread will provide information about particular outcomes for people making this type of choice.

My personal situation is that I was accepted to a couple of T14s with decent scholarships (50k-65k), and decided to choose a full ride+ named scholarship at a lower ranked school. I'd be interested in hearing from others who made a similar choices. The main things I did before accepting this was to a) make a long document comparing the pluses and minuses of the full ride+ vs T14 b) talk with members of the class of 2013, 2012, 2011, and 2010 from the lower school who had the same scholarship about summer/post-grad employment c) look on the web to see how people who had this scholarship in previous years did (current lawyers had it listed in the profile). d) talk to recipients of the scholarship/similar scholarships about the grades they received, to get a better sense of how much of a wildcard grading is likely to be.

If anyone else is considering or has made a similar choice feel free to weigh in.

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JCFindley
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:36 pm

Good thread idea IMO....

My situation is different but conceptually similar. I am using the GI Bill to pay for LS and I wouldn't consider any school that was not covered at 100%. Thus, my top choice was was lower ranked than 2 T-6s on the same island but fits my particular needs much better.....

Now, there were also plenty of schools that I could have went to for free and wouldn't have dreamed of actually attending because the job prospects just weren't there. There is a LOT to be said for attending LS debt free but IMO the LS still has to give you a decent shot at a career as a lawyer. The thing that being debt free does for you is gives you a lot more types of jobs that you can afford to take since you don't have soul crushing debt to service.

badaboom61
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby badaboom61 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:44 pm

I chose the expensive top school over the named full+ scholarship at a local T30. The debt really sucks, and the pressure is higher in some ways, but the fact is that I have a WAY better shot at the sort of job I want, and I have a lot more markets open to me.

KaleidoscopeEyes
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby KaleidoscopeEyes » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:21 pm

Glad this thread exists. Am considering a full ride plus small stipend at UT versus Harvard. I'm pretty debt averse, and could attend UT without taking out a single loan. Certainly wouldn't mind being in Texas as my family is close, but I'm also kinda interested in clerking/academia. It seems like I would need the grades either way to attain that so I'm not sure if it's something that should be a huge factor in my decision. Also, I have a background in tech and from what I've read grades are a little bit less important when it comes to getting a job because of this. So I'm not overly concerned about being able to get something out of Texas. Any thoughts?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:44 pm

KaleidoscopeEyes wrote:Glad this thread exists. Am considering a full ride plus small stipend at UT versus Harvard. I'm pretty debt averse, and could attend UT without taking out a single loan. Certainly wouldn't mind being in Texas as my family is close, but I'm also kinda interested in clerking/academia. It seems like I would need the grades either way to attain that so I'm not sure if it's something that should be a huge factor in my decision. Also, I have a background in tech and from what I've read grades are a little bit less important when it comes to getting a job because of this. So I'm not overly concerned about being able to get something out of Texas. Any thoughts?


If you want academia, then Harvard--there's really no comparison. (If clerking is really important to you, then Harvard has a clear advantage there too.) If you want to do IP at a firm and you want to enjoy your time in law school, then seriously consider UT.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:52 pm

I have a situation like this. I could most likely get into T 50 or at sticker or a small scholarship (164, 3.67), but I chose to go with a local school instead.

I think the major thing to remember is that your school rank doesn't necessarily impact your employment prospects. My school, while not even in the top 100, is the oldest school in the state (there's 2), and from what I heard, there are a lot of graduates from it here. The figure I was told was something like 90%. This is a pretty significant advantage.

Also, most of the employers in my area want to hire locally, keeping jobs within the state. This creates an odd situation, where the school isn't that well ranked, but the job opportunities are significantly better (biglaw, federal and state supreme/apellate clerkships are possible, etc.) I took a large scholarship here instead of going to a bigger law school elsewhere, since I know that I'm going to plant my roots here.

I guess what I'm saying is that prestige doesn't matter as much as employment prospects. :)

KaleidoscopeEyes
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby KaleidoscopeEyes » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:06 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
KaleidoscopeEyes wrote:Glad this thread exists. Am considering a full ride plus small stipend at UT versus Harvard. I'm pretty debt averse, and could attend UT without taking out a single loan. Certainly wouldn't mind being in Texas as my family is close, but I'm also kinda interested in clerking/academia. It seems like I would need the grades either way to attain that so I'm not sure if it's something that should be a huge factor in my decision. Also, I have a background in tech and from what I've read grades are a little bit less important when it comes to getting a job because of this. So I'm not overly concerned about being able to get something out of Texas. Any thoughts?


If you want academia, then Harvard--there's really no comparison. (If clerking is really important to you, then Harvard has a clear advantage there too.) If you want to do IP at a firm and you want to enjoy your time in law school, then seriously consider UT.

Well I'm reasonably certain I could enjoy being a professor. But I have no idea what to expect when it comes to firm jobs. I know the hours are rough, but I don't really have any clue about whether or not the job would fit me personally. If I end up at Harvard at median, clerking/academia would probably be off the table just as it is at UT. I'd probably end up in a firm and have much more debt. And in reality, academia is the only prospect that has me interested in Harvard. I don't particularly want to live in Boston, I have no interest in ever living and working in NYC, and I'm not sure the culture at Harvard fits my personality. But I also don't really want to shut doors. First world problems I guess.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby ajaxconstructions » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:09 am

KaleidoscopeEyes wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
KaleidoscopeEyes wrote:Glad this thread exists. Am considering a full ride plus small stipend at UT versus Harvard. I'm pretty debt averse, and could attend UT without taking out a single loan. Certainly wouldn't mind being in Texas as my family is close, but I'm also kinda interested in clerking/academia. It seems like I would need the grades either way to attain that so I'm not sure if it's something that should be a huge factor in my decision. Also, I have a background in tech and from what I've read grades are a little bit less important when it comes to getting a job because of this. So I'm not overly concerned about being able to get something out of Texas. Any thoughts?


If you want academia, then Harvard--there's really no comparison. (If clerking is really important to you, then Harvard has a clear advantage there too.) If you want to do IP at a firm and you want to enjoy your time in law school, then seriously consider UT.

Well I'm reasonably certain I could enjoy being a professor. But I have no idea what to expect when it comes to firm jobs. I know the hours are rough, but I don't really have any clue about whether or not the job would fit me personally. If I end up at Harvard at median, clerking/academia would probably be off the table just as it is at UT. I'd probably end up in a firm and have much more debt. And in reality, academia is the only prospect that has me interested in Harvard. I don't particularly want to live in Boston, I have no interest in ever living and working in NYC, and I'm not sure the culture at Harvard fits my personality. But I also don't really want to shut doors. First world problems I guess.


Harvard has a much better LRAP than UT does. Also, if you go into UT and miss the biglaw boat you are worse off than taking out 200k to go to H but getting a biglaw job. Biglaw is that important for exit options.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:14 am

To OP. Fwiw, when I was at UT last November I spoke in detail with a 2L(?) that chose a full ride + stipend at UT over Harvard. He was quite happy with the decision he made (perhaps because he received top marks during 1L). I encourage you to contact UT and ask about this individual's contact information. Again, he worked as a student tour guide in the Fall of 2011. He would probably have great advice. Also, I spoke with a few others students who opted for UT over some peer schools and some better (Cornell, MVP, etc.) and were happy with their decision. Off the cuff, I approached several students in the main atrium and they had nothing but positivity to report. Particularly, I remember a fellow who chose UT over Cornell and was quite satisfied with his decision. HTH
Last edited by FloridaCoastalorbust on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:15 am

Scotusnerd wrote:I have a situation like this. I could most likely get into T 50 or at sticker or a small scholarship (164, 3.67), but I chose to go with a local school instead.

I think the major thing to remember is that your school rank doesn't necessarily impact your employment prospects. My school, while not even in the top 100, is the oldest school in the state (there's 2), and from what I heard, there are a lot of graduates from it here. The figure I was told was something like 90%. This is a pretty significant advantage.

Also, most of the employers in my area want to hire locally, keeping jobs within the state. This creates an odd situation, where the school isn't that well ranked, but the job opportunities are significantly better (biglaw, federal and state supreme/apellate clerkships are possible, etc.) I took a large scholarship here instead of going to a bigger law school elsewhere, since I know that I'm going to plant my roots here.

I guess what I'm saying is that prestige doesn't matter as much as employment prospects. :)

Have you SEEN the employment stats out of South Carolina?

ze2151
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby ze2151 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:46 am

the adage, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush," seems apt.

i was in your shoes. i said thanks but no thanks to some generous offers from t14s and offers of admission from the very top schools.

i have zero regrets.

stop thinking of student loan money as some fake imaginary money you will pay back when you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars in three years. take off the rose-colored glasses and talk honestly with yourself. you will be getting a 200 thousand dollar piece of paper. that's like a house. but you can't live in a piece of paper.

take the money. nearly anything you want to do at a t14, you can do from a t25 launching pad. further, you aren't a sucker for the "biglaw or bust" mindset. you can honestly consider working for a smaller firm, building a book of business, and actually learning to be a real-life lawyer.

there is nothing quite so satisfying as throwing your fafsa paperwork in the grill, adding liberal amounts of lighter fluid, and enjoying the show. if you crash and burn at a t25, you've lost only opportunity costs (assuming no stips). if you crash and burn with 200k debt, you will never, EVER, climb your way back out.

i recommend you visit the website insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com. it will act as a very needed cold shower.

Kurst
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Kurst » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:29 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I looked around the TLS forum, and I didn't find a thread like this--so I decided to make one. I think there is a need to have a more general thread for people who accept full ride/full ride+ scholarships at lower ranked schools over paying tuition at higher ranked schools

Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?
T14 vs. Full Ride
Full ride vs T14
Full Ride vs T14 (different from above)
The "I chose the larger scholarship over higher rank" club
Full ride at a T20 or 10k or less at T14 or T15?
If you can do it again, would u take a full ride or ranking?
Anyone regret taking scholarship over higher ranked school?
Huge money + named scholarship at the T40 vs. T14 + debt
Who here is turning down a full ride?
Average full-ride vs. T14 sticker
Take free ride at a low ranked school or pay full price...
How high ranked must a school be in order for a person to accept a full ride there instead of T-14 w/o $?
Money vs. Ranking
Honestly, is it even worth it to go to a lower tier school?
Full Ride to T2 School or Full Price at T14?
can i really turn down a free ride?
Full-Ride at T30 vs. Sticker T6
T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial
TTT with a full-ride or T 25 with nothing?
Full Ride or Ridin' Pretty?
Best School Possible vs Full Ride at a Great School
Choosing Second Tier (w/scholarship) v. Higher Ranked
With a full scholarship - how far down USNWR would you go?

Berkeley ticket or tier 3 full ride?
Which one would you choose: UVA (no$) or GW (full ride)?
MSU Full Ride or University of Michigan (Sticker Price)
Cornell $$ v Pitt (Full Ride)
Notre Dame ($$) vs. Cornell
BU full ride or t14 sticker?
UCI (full scholly) vs T14 (sticker)
W&L full ride v.s GULC sticker v.s GW 106k
Texas @ sticker vs. Indiana-Bloomington w/ $$$
UIUC full ride vs. Northwestern full sticker
Berkeley v Full Ride @ USC
Cornell with (Nearly) Full Ride vs T6
NYU (sticker) vs Indiana (full ride)?
GULC (70% covered) or Ohio State (full ride)
University of Texas Sticker vs. Florida State Full Ride
Columbia $? v NYU $$$ v Penn $$ v UT $$, etc. for PI
Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)
Duke (72K) v. Cardozo (Full Ride)
Cornell 1/4-ride v GSU full-ride v CU-Boulder full-ride?
HELP!! Duke (25k/year) vs UGA (Full Ride)
UCLA (full ride) vs. Harvard (??$??)
NYU (sticker) vs. Fordham ($$) vs. Cardozo (full)
Chicago (sticker) vs. WUSTL (full scholarship)
Vandy (sticker) vs. Alabama (Full Ride)
UVA Full Scholarship [v. YHS]
Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard
UCLA Full Ride vs. UPenn Levy Scholarship vs. Columbia no $$
UVa (full-tuition scholarship) vs. Columbia (sticker)
Columbia Full Ride v. Harvard/Stanford for Public Interest
So lucky...please help me out - HLS vs. T10 scholarships
UVA (full ride) v. UCLA (full ride) v. USC (40k) v. Boalt
Penn (full ride) vs. Columbia ($50k)
Columbia @ Assumed Sticker v. Cornell @ Almost Full Ride
Wigmore (full ride) at NU vs. Harvard
IP Law... Harvard or UVA full ride?
IIT Chicago-Kent (full ride) vs. Columbia?
Georgetown (sticker) vs George Washington (full ride)
NYU with full scholarship v. Harvard
Full Ride at Columbia vs. Sticker at Harvard
NW with a full ride or Harvard?
Help Please: GWU (full ride/tuition) vs. Michigan
Georgetown (no ride) VS. GW (full ride)
UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????
WashU (full ride) vs. GULC (5k/yr) vs. UT (in-state+7k/yr)
Berkeley Law vs. full ride at McGeorge

Ken wrote:Is it better to take a scholarship at a lower-ranked school or attend a higher-ranked school at the sticker price?

There is absolutely no one "answer" to this question, though it is one of the most frequently asked. However, there are factors which one must take into account in order to properly make this exceedingly difficult choice, factors which I will attempt to delineate below:

A.) How vast is the rankings chasm between the two schools you're considering? If you're asking these boards whether to go to Cooly Law School on a full-ride or Michigan at sticker, the answers will be almost universally in favor of Michigan and you'll likely be written off as a troll - but that's an extreme case and unlikely to really be much of an issue. More commonly, people are forced to choose between a T14 and another well-regarded Tier 1 school, for instance Georgetown at sticker vs. George Washington with a full--scholarship, or between two schools of disparate (but not hugely so) rank, such as UC Davis and Loyola. Other common dilemmas include Columbia or Northwestern with a full-ride vs. Harvard or Yale with no money.

B.) How debt-averse are you? This is a very personal matter. Some people would gladly trade the prestige of going to Cornell for a free JD from Emory, others would be horrified at the mere thought, preferring $100,000 (or whatever) in debt because it offers them greater margin for error vis-a-vis class rank, more potential job offers, greater national portability of the degree, etc. You need to do your own cost-benefit analysis, and when doing so, you need to consider the following:

C.) What type of law do you want to practice? If you're interested in working for a swanky, Vault-type biglaw firm and hell-bent on starting at $160,000/year, then you're likely going to want to go to the highest-ranked school you can swing admission to, and debt be damned. But think about how sure you are that you want biglaw: Sure, the money's great, but the hours are long and the work is hard - do your homework and think a little about what you'd really like to do. If it turns out you're actually interested in Public Interest law, working as a public defender, saving the whales, doing pro-bono defenses for environmental causes, etc., then you need to think seriously about the kind of debt you're going to be in at graduation, because $200,000 in debt can be a real albatross when you're earning $40,000 a year. Two additional points to consider - 1) $100,000 in a scholarship may seem like a huge amount of money now, but realize that this amount is not as large when seen in the context that you could be making $160,000 upon graduation; and 2) you will not be paying taxes on that $100,000 in tuition savings, so it makes it effectively worth $150,000 in after tax dollars. Since the first point directs you towards the better school and the second point towards taking the scholarship, it shows that there is no clear answer on whether to take the scholarship or not.

D.) Where do you wish to live and work? Many people have their entire family in one city, or for whatever other reason they go into law school knowing what city they will eventually make their lives in. This is helpful, because these people have a unique opportunity to pursue scholarships at their regional schools. For instance: University of the Pacific-McGeorge Law School places superbly in the city of Sacramento, but quite poorly on the East Coast. If, however, you were 100% sure you wanted to live and practice in Sacramento, then taking a full-ride at McGeorge over, say, Noter Dame at sticker is almost a no-brainer. Similarly someone who had their heart set on Tampa-St. Pete would be far better off going to Stetson for free than going to Illinois at sticker. Etc. But again, this requires a high degree of certainty about your future location: The rule of thumb on these boards tends to be that if you're even 10-20% sure you might want to live elsewhere, then go to the best school you got into.

E.) How much do you personally value prestige and name recognition? This is hard to quantify, but for many people it is worth a substantial amount of money to be able to say they went to Harvard and they'd just never be as happy saying they went to Duke, or what-have-you. Give this some thought.

As you can see, there is no simple answer to this question, but there does exist a relatively boilerplate set of factors which you'll likely be told to consider should you pose such a question on these boards.

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Bronck
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Bronck » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:03 am

^ Damn you went all out LOL

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:00 am

Kurst, props on your dedication to slamming the OP. Not necessarily helpful, but impressive regardless.

However, I take issue with

2) you will not be paying taxes on that $100,000 in tuition savings, so it makes it effectively worth $150,000 in after tax dollars.


I get what you're trying to say (do you mean its worth the equivalent of $150,000 pre tax? ) but money doesn't work like that. A $100,000 scholarship is worth $100,000 (plus interest if you would have taken out loans for that otherwise). A more apt comparison would be to point out that $160,000 / year with NYC taxes nets out to around $105,000.

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JCFindley
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby JCFindley » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:18 am

KaleidoscopeEyes wrote:Well I'm reasonably certain I could enjoy being a professor. But I have no idea what to expect when it comes to firm jobs. I know the hours are rough, but I don't really have any clue about whether or not the job would fit me personally. If I end up at Harvard at median, clerking/academia would probably be off the table just as it is at UT. I'd probably end up in a firm and have much more debt. And in reality, academia is the only prospect that has me interested in Harvard. I don't particularly want to live in Boston, I have no interest in ever living and working in NYC, and I'm not sure the culture at Harvard fits my personality. But I also don't really want to shut doors. First world problems I guess.


Harvard places anywhere so you wouldn't be limited to Boston or NYC but I have lived in Texas and understand that many Texans would be perfectly happy never leaving the state. If living in Texas is the end game goal I would think UT would be the way to go for a much less stressful and enjoyable three years. At the end you still have plenty of options and you don't have 200K + to pay to anyone.....

RE the culture in Harvard, you can't get good BBQ, there is no sixth st, it actually snows in winter, they talk funny, and wearing ostrich Luccheses with a suit is considered a faux paux and not a high fashion statement..... None of which are actually a good reason not to go to Harvard but saving 200K certainly could be.

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dingbat
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby dingbat » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:27 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:Kurst, props on your dedication to slamming the OP. Not necessarily helpful, but impressive regardless.

However, I take issue with

2) you will not be paying taxes on that $100,000 in tuition savings, so it makes it effectively worth $150,000 in after tax dollars.


I get what you're trying to say (do you mean its worth the equivalent of $150,000 pre tax? ) but money doesn't work like that. A $100,000 scholarship is worth $100,000 (plus interest if you would have taken out loans for that otherwise). A more apt comparison would be to point out that $160,000 / year with NYC taxes nets out to around $105,000.

I think what he's trying to say is that if you borrow $105k (after interest) for tuition, you will owe $105k when you get out.
However, you will be paying that off with after-tax dollars, so you would need to earn $160k pre-tax to pay it back.
But, that is an oversimplification. My quick response is that when one evaluates the merits of paying sticker at school A vs hefty scholly at school B, the cost/benefit analysis must be done on a tax-adjusted basis.

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dingbat
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby dingbat » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 am

The goal of this thread is laudable, but fallible.
There are no simple rules as to which is better.

The main question is, which schools are involved?
Harvard at sticker vs Cooley for free?
or, Fordham at sticker vs Cardozo/Brooklyn at full scholly?
Those would give very different answers. Therefore, a generic discussion on the pros and cons of going to a lower ranked school for a full scholly is pointless.

I also think that as one gets older, a person becomes less willing to take on debt for sticker, but, that's the kind of thing that's up to the individual.

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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby cinephile » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:44 am

dingbat wrote:The goal of this thread is laudable, but fallible.
There are no simple rules as to which is better.

The main question is, which schools are involved?
Harvard at sticker vs Cooley for free?


This is disingenuous because we all know no one in the history of the world has ever been faced with this situation, so making that kind of exaggeration is pointless. The Fordam/Cardozo example, however, was fair.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:47 am

rad lulz wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I have a situation like this. I could most likely get into T 50 or at sticker or a small scholarship (164, 3.67), but I chose to go with a local school instead.

I think the major thing to remember is that your school rank doesn't necessarily impact your employment prospects. My school, while not even in the top 100, is the oldest school in the state (there's 2), and from what I heard, there are a lot of graduates from it here. The figure I was told was something like 90%. This is a pretty significant advantage.

Also, most of the employers in my area want to hire locally, keeping jobs within the state. This creates an odd situation, where the school isn't that well ranked, but the job opportunities are significantly better (biglaw, federal and state supreme/apellate clerkships are possible, etc.) I took a large scholarship here instead of going to a bigger law school elsewhere, since I know that I'm going to plant my roots here.

I guess what I'm saying is that prestige doesn't matter as much as employment prospects. :)

Have you SEEN the employment stats out of South Carolina?

Hey man, 3.2% federal clerkship placement is nothing to scoff at. So what if only 2/3 of their grads even get a job that requires passing the bar (you know, an actual legal job), isn't it worth it for almost 5% placement in big firms?

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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:49 am

dingbat wrote:The goal of this thread is laudable, but fallible.
There are no simple rules as to which is better.

The main question is, which schools are involved?
Harvard at sticker vs Cooley for free?
or, Fordham at sticker vs Cardozo/Brooklyn at full scholly?
Those would give very different answers. Therefore, a generic discussion on the pros and cons of going to a lower ranked school for a full scholly is pointless.

I also think that as one gets older, a person becomes less willing to take on debt for sticker, but, that's the kind of thing that's up to the individual.


First off, I know Kurst was trying to flame me, but in making that list he has already made this thread a really useful resource. Thanks for compiling all those threads.

Second, I do think TLS needs one place for all full ride/full ride(+) people (and prospectives) to talk. My view is that this option is generally undervalued because it is much harder to see the outcomes of the people who make this choice. It is easy to say "at school X there were Y% of people in class of 2011 who got NLJ250." It is much harder to envision "at school X the people who attended on full ride/full ride+ scholarships for classes of 2010, 2011, and 2012 had Y% chance of a NLJ250 job." I think it is great to have one place for people who have taken this option to check back in and also for people to share strategies for how to evaluate a full ride offer.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:45 am

rad lulz wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I have a situation like this. I could most likely get into T 50 or at sticker or a small scholarship (164, 3.67), but I chose to go with a local school instead.

I think the major thing to remember is that your school rank doesn't necessarily impact your employment prospects. My school, while not even in the top 100, is the oldest school in the state (there's 2), and from what I heard, there are a lot of graduates from it here. The figure I was told was something like 90%. This is a pretty significant advantage.

Also, most of the employers in my area want to hire locally, keeping jobs within the state. This creates an odd situation, where the school isn't that well ranked, but the job opportunities are significantly better (biglaw, federal and state supreme/apellate clerkships are possible, etc.) I took a large scholarship here instead of going to a bigger law school elsewhere, since I know that I'm going to plant my roots here.

I guess what I'm saying is that prestige doesn't matter as much as employment prospects. :)

Have you SEEN the employment stats out of South Carolina?


Yes. I also have ties to the area (fiance with a teaching job). Are the numbers perfect? No. But it's a HELL of a lot better than the employment statistics from the job I just came from! I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be in South Carolina. Therefore, University of South Carolina is the best law school to attend in this area. Pretty simple logic.

KaleidoscopeEyes
Posts: 70
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby KaleidoscopeEyes » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:55 am

JCFindley wrote:Harvard places anywhere so you wouldn't be limited to Boston or NYC but I have lived in Texas and understand that many Texans would be perfectly happy never leaving the state. If living in Texas is the end game goal I would think UT would be the way to go for a much less stressful and enjoyable three years. At the end you still have plenty of options and you don't have 200K + to pay to anyone.....

RE the culture in Harvard, you can't get good BBQ, there is no sixth st, it actually snows in winter, they talk funny, and wearing ostrich Luccheses with a suit is considered a faux paux and not a high fashion statement..... None of which are actually a good reason not to go to Harvard but saving 200K certainly could be.

Yeah, I'm sure I wouldn't be limited at Harvard, but I probably would have targeted Texas during OCI anyways. Also interested in the Bay Area, but once again, that seems possible (even if it's not probable) from Texas.

rad lulz
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:07 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I have a situation like this. I could most likely get into T 50 or at sticker or a small scholarship (164, 3.67), but I chose to go with a local school instead.

I think the major thing to remember is that your school rank doesn't necessarily impact your employment prospects. My school, while not even in the top 100, is the oldest school in the state (there's 2), and from what I heard, there are a lot of graduates from it here. The figure I was told was something like 90%. This is a pretty significant advantage.

Also, most of the employers in my area want to hire locally, keeping jobs within the state. This creates an odd situation, where the school isn't that well ranked, but the job opportunities are significantly better (biglaw, federal and state supreme/apellate clerkships are possible, etc.) I took a large scholarship here instead of going to a bigger law school elsewhere, since I know that I'm going to plant my roots here.

I guess what I'm saying is that prestige doesn't matter as much as employment prospects. :)

Have you SEEN the employment stats out of South Carolina?


Yes. I also have ties to the area (fiance with a teaching job). Are the numbers perfect? No. But it's a HELL of a lot better than the employment statistics from the job I just came from! I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be in South Carolina. Therefore, University of South Carolina is the best law school to attend in this area. Pretty simple logic.

You had a job, so I'm not sure how the 55% chance of getting a full time legal job from USC (as per LST) is better than the chance of getting a job in your previous field, which was 100%, because you already had the job.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:18 am

rad lulz wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:Long post

Have you SEEN the employment stats out of South Carolina?


Yes. I also have ties to the area (fiance with a teaching job). Are the numbers perfect? No. But it's a HELL of a lot better than the employment statistics from the job I just came from! I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be in South Carolina. Therefore, University of South Carolina is the best law school to attend in this area. Pretty simple logic.

You had a job, so I'm not sure how the 55% chance of getting a full time legal job from USC (as per LST) is better than the chance of getting a job in your previous field, which was 100%, because you already had the job.


Now you're telling me about my previous job? Oh this is rich. Please, regale me with your knowledge.

ze2151
Posts: 358
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby ze2151 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:34 am

scotusnerd, just listen to rad rulz for your own sake.

but since i love saying i told you so, save this thread and come back to it in three years.

insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com.




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