Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

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Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Yes
92
67%
No
46
33%
 
Total votes: 138

Real Madrid
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Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:19 pm

So I visited during ASW this past weekend and loved it, but the sticker price at Berkeley is just a bit scary. I have about $100,000 tucked away that I can use, and I was considering selling my car on top of that since I talked to some students who told me one wasn't really necessary. I'll also have some financial support from parents every year to the tune of $10-15k.

Nevertheless, the thought of such an expensive education is frightening. My other options are Michigan with $30,000; Cornell with $45,000; and UCLA with $75,000.

I also was recently awarded the non-resident tuition exemption at Texas plus $7,000 per year.

But the main question is: Is Boalt worth sticker?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:24 pm

What do you want to do after graduation and where do you want to do it?

If you want NYC biglaw, go to Cornell.
If you want Chicago biglaw, go to Michigan.
If you want Texas biglaw, go to Texas.

The real question then is, if you want California, and if so do you think Berkeley is worth $75k more than UCLA? For that, I'm not sure.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Shaggier1 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:26 pm

Speaking generally, all you are really asking is "Is a T10 worth sticker?" I say that because, for all the flack, Berkeley really doesn't cost much more than other T10's.

Speaking more specifically to your situation, that depends entirely on what you want to do. Do you want to work in BigLaw? If so, where? And do you have any sense for the practice area you might like to focus on?

But really, you are in a very fortunate position. Between your savings and your parents' support, you have nearly $145K to work with. You are not going to have much debt upon graduation no matter where you go.

I say all of these things as someone who happily signed up to pay sticker at Boalt (though they later gave me in-state plus an additional ~$20K per year in financial aid), and is now headed to a V5. Do I like the debt? No. Am I glad I went to Berkeley? Every day, my friend...

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:What do you want to do after graduation and where do you want to do it?

If you want NYC biglaw, go to Cornell.
If you want Chicago biglaw, go to Michigan.
If you want Texas biglaw, go to Texas.

The real question then is, if you want California, and if so do you think Berkeley is worth $75k more than UCLA? For that, I'm not sure.


Lolno

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:50 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:What do you want to do after graduation and where do you want to do it?

If you want NYC biglaw, go to Cornell.
If you want Chicago biglaw, go to Michigan.
If you want Texas biglaw, go to Texas.

The real question then is, if you want California, and if so do you think Berkeley is worth $75k more than UCLA? For that, I'm not sure.


Lolno


You would choose one of the other options for Chicago? OP didn't mention any other schools, so, based on their options, Michigan is the best choice if Chicago is the desired market.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:02 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:What do you want to do after graduation and where do you want to do it?

If you want NYC biglaw, go to Cornell.
If you want Chicago biglaw, go to Michigan.
If you want Texas biglaw, go to Texas.

The real question then is, if you want California, and if so do you think Berkeley is worth $75k more than UCLA? For that, I'm not sure.


Lolno


You would choose one of the other options for Chicago? OP didn't mention any other schools, so, based on their options, Michigan is the best choice if Chicago is the desired market.


Or there's if you want Chicago don't go to these schools.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby bilbobaggins » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:07 pm

Is this a serious question?

Of course it's worth sticker.

The real question is- is it worth taking money at another school or going to Boalt at sticker.

Boalt will give you more options than UCLA, especially nationally. It will give you more options than Texas or Cornell nationally. The real question is - is $30,000 worth living in Ann Arbor? If you can answer that question with a "yes," then I'd go to Michigan.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:12 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:What do you want to do after graduation and where do you want to do it?

If you want NYC biglaw, go to Cornell.
If you want Chicago biglaw, go to Michigan.
If you want Texas biglaw, go to Texas.

The real question then is, if you want California, and if so do you think Berkeley is worth $75k more than UCLA? For that, I'm not sure.


Lolno


You would choose one of the other options for Chicago? OP didn't mention any other schools, so, based on their options, Michigan is the best choice if Chicago is the desired market.


Or there's if you want Chicago don't go to these schools.


That's asinine. If you go to Michigan, you can get a job in Chicago. If you got into Michigan, Berkeley, Cornell, and UCLA, and you wanted Chicago, Michigan is TCR. Not attending law school, simply based on a want for the Chicago market, is not TCR.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:16 pm

The only people dumb enough to think that Chicago is a target market for Michigan are UMich's OCS.

Also, I doubt there's any real edge in NYC placement between Cornell and Michigan. If anything, I'd bet chances from Michigan are better.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:27 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:The only people dumb enough to think that Chicago is a target market for Michigan are UMich's OCS.

Also, I doubt there's any real edge in NYC placement between Cornell and Michigan. If anything, I'd bet chances from Michigan are better.


I'm not so sure about Michigan being better than Cornell for NYC, but Michigan is certainly not a go-to school for Chicago.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:The only people dumb enough to think that Chicago is a target market for Michigan are UMich's OCS.

Also, I doubt there's any real edge in NYC placement between Cornell and Michigan. If anything, I'd bet chances from Michigan are better.


I'm not so sure about Michigan being better than Cornell for NYC, but Michigan is certainly not a go-to school for Chicago.


My guess is most likely possibility there's no difference. There's a chance of a Michigan boost as I'm guessing that the majority of the the Cornell class is targeting NYC whereas Mich is probably a lot more diverse in who bids, so maybe a better chance.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:34 pm

OP, career goals?

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flem
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby flem » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:05 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
That's asinine. If you go to Michigan, you can get a job in Chicago. If you got into Michigan, Berkeley, Cornell, and UCLA, and you wanted Chicago, Michigan is TCR. Not attending law school, simply based on a want for the Chicago market, is not TCR.


You're aware Michigan's current shitty employment data is at least partially due to their career services office telling kids to bid Chicago, where they promptly got owned by UChi and NU kids, right?

Can it get you to Chicago? Yeah. Is it a feeder school for Chicago? No.

DBishops
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby DBishops » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:07 pm

I was going to attend berkeley at sticker, but given some ties to NY (I also have family in California though) and recent acceptance to Columbia, I'm going to NY for a change of pace. If berkeley got back to me with any kind of real money I would have probably went there.

Real Madrid
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Thanks for the responses so far.


TemporarySaint wrote:OP, career goals


I'd definitely like to try my hand at big law for a few years if given the opportunity. Other than that, no specific desires, but if not on partner track, maybe move in-house? Kind of vague, I know.

I definitely prefer the idea of living in the Bay over AA or Ithaca, but I'm not super picky about where I work post-grad - though I think SF Is definitely one of the most desirable US cities.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:15 pm

Where do you want to practice long-term? Ties?

Real Madrid
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby Real Madrid » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:37 am

TemporarySaint wrote:Where do you want to practice long-term? Ties?


I think I would prefer CA, but big law in general would be preferable to non-big law in CA. I have ties to Alabama.

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top30man
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby top30man » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:50 am

Real Madrid wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Where do you want to practice long-term? Ties?


I think I would prefer CA, but big law in general would be preferable to non-big law in CA. I have ties to Alabama.

The amount of money you have gives you significant financial latitude. Boalt is a great school. I think it's easily your best option for CA big law out of what you have.

SaintFond
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby SaintFond » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:18 am

I'm kind of in the same boat here, as Berkeley is the best school I've gotten into, and I want to work in CA. But it's hard for me to be sure that Berkeley is worth sticker ITE.

EDIT: If you have 100K squirreled away, I'd probably do it.

woeisme
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby woeisme » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:39 am

TemporarySaint wrote:The only people dumb enough to think that Chicago is a target market for Michigan are UMich's OCS.

Also, I doubt there's any real edge in NYC placement between Cornell and Michigan. If anything, I'd bet chances from Michigan are better.


I thought you were a decent poster, but you're quickly losing credibility. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this lapse in judgment, but the above is not right. Michigan and Cornell are certainly peers in the aggregate, but if you're focusing solely on NYC placement, no way Michigan is better. Taking Michigan could make sense based on personal preference or additional scholarship money, but head-to-head, Cornell wins.

Also, Michigan for Chicago was historically a good bet. Not so much anymore.
Last edited by woeisme on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:40 am

bilbobaggins wrote:Is this a serious question?

Of course it's worth sticker.


I guess you and I define OP's question differently. I guess Berkeley is worth sticker in the sense that it's a justifiable investment. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a non-marginal amount of students who end up undermployed and fucked with lots of debt. Should someone go to Berkeley at sticker if that's their only law school option? The answer to that is hardly "of course."

woeisme
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby woeisme » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:45 am

Doesn't Berkely have a scholarship matching program anyway? I think they'll match your other offers.

Objectively, I'd take Cornell here. But given your expressed goals and opinions, Berkeley is the one. Leverage that money!

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby bilbobaggins » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:47 am

bk1 wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Is this a serious question?

Of course it's worth sticker.


I guess you and I define OP's question differently. I guess Berkeley is worth sticker in the sense that it's a justifiable investment. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a non-marginal amount of students who end up undermployed and fucked with lots of debt. Should someone go to Berkeley at sticker if that's their only law school option? The answer to that is hardly "of course."


You've agreed with me that it's a justifiable investment. Hence the, "of course it's worth sticker."

Whether or not someone should go to law school is a completely different and more nebulous question.

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bk1
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:51 am

bilbobaggins wrote:You've agreed with me that it's a justifiable investment. Hence the, "of course it's worth sticker."

Whether or not someone should go to law school is a completely different and more nebulous question.


The latter is obviously an integral part of the question since we're talking about Berkeley Law School and not Berkeley School of Fine Arts.

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skers
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby skers » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:00 pm

woeisme wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:The only people dumb enough to think that Chicago is a target market for Michigan are UMich's OCS.

Also, I doubt there's any real edge in NYC placement between Cornell and Michigan. If anything, I'd bet chances from Michigan are better.


I thought you were a decent poster, but you're quickly losing credibility. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this lapse in judgment, but the above is not right. Michigan and Cornell are certainly peers in the aggregate, but if you're focusing solely on NYC placement, no way Michigan is better. Taking Michigan could make sense based on personal preference or additional scholarship money, but head-to-head, Cornell wins.

Also, Michigan for Chicago was historically a good bet. Not so much anymore.


I assume you've been through OCI, so probably have a better grasp on things than I do. I think I clarified in my next post that I'd assume the vast majority of people at Cornell bit heavy/exclusively NYC. I don't base this on the the MVP bit. At Michigan you have more diverse bidding with more people targeting West Coast and Midwest. We saw something similar to this with NW students' ability to nab Weil interviews for instance on much lower bids than Cornell kids. Someone might have a better chance through decreased competition. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

OP. I'd take Michigan or Cornell. Bay Area is killer, but Berk is also really fucking expensive. With your savings, parental help, and scholarship $$ you'll be graduating close to debt free. Good position to be in. If you decide you're CA or bust, take Berk.




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