NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

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kscott813
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NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby kscott813 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:35 am

So I can either go to NYU with a $62,500 scholly or I can wait a year (forced deferral) and go to Northwestern for a $150,000 scholly.

NYU has been my dream school for awhile and I love New York, but reading this forum has made me more afraid of debt.

All thoughts are appreciated.

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NoleinNY
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:42 am

kscott813 wrote:So I can either go to NYU with a $62,500 scholly or I can wait a year (forced deferral) and go to Northwestern for a $150,000 scholly.

NYU has been my dream school for awhile and I love New York, but reading this forum has made me more afraid of debt.

All thoughts are appreciated.

Northwestern said they'd give you the 150k if you waited?

If so, and I'm reading your post right, I'd take NU. I would totally understand you taking NYU, though; that was my #1 dream school before the LSAT broke me,

kscott813
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby kscott813 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:44 am

Yea, strange I know, but they really like work experience and I have essentially none.

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bk1
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:47 am

NU is essentially paying you over 100k for your year off (once you factor in not having to pay interest). That's more than the amount of money you'd get from biglaw after taxes.

I think this is an easy decision.

kscott813
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby kscott813 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:59 am

On paper yes, but NYU has a few things going for it:

I love NY and would like to work there eventually. At NU I figure I would most likely end up with a job in Chicago. I hear good things about the city, but the weather is drastically colder, and that is important to someone who has lived in Florida his whole life.

Also, I'm actually excited about law school, and the thought of waiting out a year is not very appealing.

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skers
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby skers » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:01 am

Take Northwestern. Fuck. Why is this a question?

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Tom Joad
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:04 am

Oh, if only I could get a deferral. How did you swing that?

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:06 am

If the opportunity to gain a year of work experience (which employers love) and one hundred thousand dollars isn't enough to make you pick one of the best schools in the country, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

kscott813
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby kscott813 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:09 am

Take Northwestern. Fuck. Why is this a question?

I know its a lot of money, but its also essentially one year of lost wages.

Also as I said, NYU is a dream school. Its also ranked higher if that counts for anything...

Tom Joad wrote:Oh, if only I could get a deferral. How did you swing that?


95% of their students enroll with at least one year of post-undergraduate full-time work experience, so they do this to people like me straight out of undergrad.

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:10 am

It doesn't count as a year of lost wages if you'll (a) be working, and (b) be getting an extra $100k in scholarships.

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bk1
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:11 am

kscott813 wrote:At NU I figure I would most likely end up with a job in Chicago.


This is not true unless you chose to bid Chicago.

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:11 am

Tom Joad wrote:Oh, if only I could get a deferral. How did you swing that?

Lots of schools will let you defer.

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bk1
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:11 am

kscott813 wrote:I know its a lot of money, but its also essentially one year of lost wages.


This was also my point earlier. NU is paying you more than you could possibly get with that 1 year of lost wages.

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:11 am

HEY SWEET NAME COLOR BK.

/jelly

/derail

jjcheng
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby jjcheng » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:34 am

What's the opportunity cost of you taking the deferral + $$$ @ NU?

So the difference in cost (debt), assuming that COL+tuition is the same @ both schools are the same, is $87,500.

While NU is giving you more money, it's asking for a year of your time, what's that worth down the line?

But, let's skip present value calculations based on expected lifetime earning, cuz that's ridiculous since attrition out of BIGLAW is so high. So assuming market BIGLAW is your goal, then let's say that one year of time is worth $160k.

Thus, not factoring in where it will be easier to find jerbs*, then the question becomes: will you make (160-87.5k =) $72,500 in your deferral year?

If you make over $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NU is greater than the opportunity cost of NYU and making $BIGLAW$ dough a year earlier.
If you make under $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NYU is greater than the opportunity cost of deferring to NU + $$$ scholly

Yes the above is a gross oversimplification, and I didn't do lifetime present value, but hey back of the envelope stuff can give you a rough idea.

*(quite debatable topic in its own right, tons of threads on this, sry don't have link)

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Tom Joad
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:36 am

A year of anybody's time when they are fucking off isn't worth $160 grand.

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:36 am

You don't take home $160k. Duh.

jjcheng
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby jjcheng » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:38 am

jjcheng wrote:What's the opportunity cost of you taking the deferral + $$$ @ NU?

So the difference in cost (debt), assuming that COL+tuition is the same @ both schools are the same, is $87,500.

While NU is giving you more money, it's asking for a year of your time, what's that worth down the line?

But, let's skip present value calculations based on expected lifetime earning, cuz that's ridiculous since attrition out of BIGLAW is so high. So assuming market BIGLAW is your goal, then let's say that one year of time is worth $160k.

Thus, not factoring in where it will be easier to find jerbs*, then the question becomes: will you make (160-87.5k =) $72,500 in your deferral year?

If you make over $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NU is greater than the opportunity cost of NYU and making $BIGLAW$ dough a year earlier.
If you make under $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NYU is greater than the opportunity cost of deferring to NU + $$$ scholly

Yes the above is a gross oversimplification, and I didn't do lifetime present value, but hey back of the envelope stuff can give you a rough idea.

*(quite debatable topic in its own right, tons of threads on this, sry don't have link)


TL;DR version: If you are going to make over $72.5k in your deferral year, go to NU, otherwise go to NYU.

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Dany
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby Dany » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:38 am

jjcheng wrote:TL;DR version: If you are going to make over $72.5k in your deferral year, go to NU, otherwise go to NYU.

No.

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skers
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby skers » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:39 am

Above analysis is worthless since it doesn't take into account the interest of tens of thousands of dollars. OP if you don't see the value in free tuition at a school like NW, you're either a flame or just retarded.

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bk1
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:41 am

jjcheng wrote:What's the opportunity cost of you taking the deferral + $$$ @ NU?

So the difference in cost (debt), assuming that COL+tuition is the same @ both schools are the same, is $87,500.

While NU is giving you more money, it's asking for a year of your time, what's that worth down the line?

But, let's skip present value calculations based on expected lifetime earning, cuz that's ridiculous since attrition out of BIGLAW is so high. So assuming market BIGLAW is your goal, then let's say that one year of time is worth $160k.

Thus, not factoring in where it will be easier to find jerbs*, then the question becomes: will you make (160-87.5k =) $72,500 in your deferral year?

If you make over $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NU is greater than the opportunity cost of NYU and making $BIGLAW$ dough a year earlier.
If you make under $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NYU is greater than the opportunity cost of deferring to NU + $$$ scholly

Yes the above is a gross oversimplification, and I didn't do lifetime present value, but hey back of the envelope stuff can give you a rough idea.

*(quite debatable topic in its own right, tons of threads on this, sry don't have link)


That 87.5k he would take would be subject to interest of around 8%. It'll be over 100k by the time he graduates and will further impede the time in which he can pay it back because he'll be fighting a battle against interest. The 160k he would get from biglaw (and that is assuming he gets biglaw which has a definite chance of not happening from both NYU and NU) would only be 100k after taxes.

Factor in any money made while having a job during a year off and it's easy math for NU.

jjcheng
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby jjcheng » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:48 am

bk1 wrote:
jjcheng wrote:What's the opportunity cost of you taking the deferral + $$$ @ NU?

So the difference in cost (debt), assuming that COL+tuition is the same @ both schools are the same, is $87,500.

While NU is giving you more money, it's asking for a year of your time, what's that worth down the line?

But, let's skip present value calculations based on expected lifetime earning, cuz that's ridiculous since attrition out of BIGLAW is so high. So assuming market BIGLAW is your goal, then let's say that one year of time is worth $160k.

Thus, not factoring in where it will be easier to find jerbs*, then the question becomes: will you make (160-87.5k =) $72,500 in your deferral year?

If you make over $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NU is greater than the opportunity cost of NYU and making $BIGLAW$ dough a year earlier.
If you make under $72,500 in your deferral year then the expected returns of going to NYU is greater than the opportunity cost of deferring to NU + $$$ scholly

Yes the above is a gross oversimplification, and I didn't do lifetime present value, but hey back of the envelope stuff can give you a rough idea.

*(quite debatable topic in its own right, tons of threads on this, sry don't have link)


That 87.5k he would take would be subject to interest of around 8%. It'll be over 100k by the time he graduates and will further impede the time in which he can pay it back because he'll be fighting a battle against interest. The 160k he would get from biglaw (and that is assuming he gets biglaw which has a definite chance of not happening from both NYU and NU) would only be 100k after taxes.

Factor in any money made while having a job during a year off and it's easy math for NU.


Good point, I'm international so I have no idea what tax/interest is like in America right now. Though you would have to subtract the tax from both the deferral year and the forgone year. Also, I put (debt) in brackets because I don't know how much debt OP expects to take on (perhaps grants/parents help out?). And working for a year before school would certainly help decrease debt and thus interest levels. Definitely more complex if we factor in all of this.

kscott813
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby kscott813 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:55 am

TemporarySaint wrote:Above analysis is worthless since it doesn't take into account the interest of tens of thousands of dollars. OP if you don't see the value in free tuition at a school like NW, you're either a flame or just retarded.


Thank you for the insult, but people in the real world have a lot more sympathy for my dilemma.

Yes I understand a full ride at northwestern is awesome, but NYU wins all of the intangibles.

*Like the location A LOT better
*Better School
*Chicago is a declining city, I see NY as a much more stable market in the long term
*Love the culture at NYU
*DONT have to defer

I honestly don't understand the negative vibes here. Yes I am fully aware that going to Northwestern for (essentially) full tuition is a great deal and I am extremely lucky to have the offer. On the other hand going to NYU for 50% tuition is also a great deal. A lot of people have gone paying way more and ended up just fine.

I appreciate the feedback. My heart says NYU, but logic says Northwestern. I understood a lot of people here would say to go to Northwestern and I understand that. I am definitely taking everyone's advice into consideration, but that doesn't mean I'm some kind of idiot for considering my options :roll:

Going back to the opportunity cost of deferral...

One year's lost wages lets say $160,000
After taxes, etc,

Lets say $80,000

Now I also can work this year, but most good paying jobs for someone with my experience are already taken.

So I end up with a job that pays my living expenses, plus lets say I pocket 10-15K

That means the Opportunity cost is around $65k

Assume $100,000 difference in schollys based on loan payments,

$35,000 difference. Still significant, but not outrageous considering perks of going to preferred school.


Now of course there is the added benefit that the NU is a safer option, but I am fairly confident in my abilities to land a job in big law. Yes I know there are going to be naysayers that it is a "flip of a coin", but I guess I am a risk-taker.

All of that being said, yes I still see the wisdom in going to NU and am still considering it. I just don't see how NYU is a retarded choice...

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bk1
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:05 am

kscott813 wrote:I just don't see how NYU is a retarded choice...


Because biglaw is in no way a guarantee and you can pretty much mitigate all the risk of law school by going to NU with around 60-70k initial debt.

On the other hand NYU's initial debt will be a little over 160k. You factor in interest on that bad boy and you're looking at around 185k at graduation. Your biglaw salary is going to be a lot lower once you factor in loan repayments. With a 10 year repayment plan you're looking at 25k/year. With a 5 year repayment plan you're looking at 44k/year.

You're letting your irrational NYU dream cost you.

igo2northwestern
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Re: NYU with $$ or NU with $$$$

Postby igo2northwestern » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:11 am

I don't think you should be concerned about not being able to get a NY job after graduating from NU. Tons of people at the school go to NY. If, however, the NY job market tanks & you are at NYU, you wouldn't be able to get Chicago jobs without ties (or high grades). Same things applies to other regions in the US, save Wash DC.

Also, you should probably be cautious about being so confident about your ability to make great grades & get biglaw - there are a lot of smart people at T14 schools who probably have >= your LSAT score and/or your undergrad grades.



GL on your decision, and best wishes wherever you end up.




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