Arizona State v. University of Arizona

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JD Janitor
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Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby JD Janitor » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:19 pm

Im not from Arizona and havent heard the perspective of someone more familiar with the area regarding these two schools. They are almost identical in rank. What are the major differences? What are the similarities? I've head a few people mention that UofA may be better than ASU but I have no idea as to the validity of this.

Jake5
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby Jake5 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:27 pm

JD Janitor wrote:Im not from Arizona and havent heard the perspective of someone more familiar with the area regarding these two schools. They are almost identical in rank. What are the major differences? What are the similarities? I've head a few people mention that UofA may be better than ASU but I have no idea as to the validity of this.


I'm from Arizona and applied to both of these schools. In at UofA, and still waiting on ASU. I have similar questions about what seperates the two and what would make one better than the other. In terms of location, ASU is clearly in a better place. It's located in Tempe which caters to the large UG campus and offers much to do in the way of night life. UofA is located in Tucson, which, outside of the UofA campus, isn't all that enjoyable for those who don't enjoy outdoor types of activities.

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gaud
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby gaud » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:33 pm

May be some useful information in one of these threads:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... =2&t=86177

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... 8&start=25


Overall, I think a decision should be based after visiting both of them.. at least if you never have. Like the poster above mentioned.. the towns that the schools are located in are quite different. Job prospects seem to be fairly equal. I believe some favor UofA a little more considering the fact that it has been 'higher ranking' much longer than ASU has, but despite that they are currently very similar.

EDIT: it will be easier to network in Phoenix if you attend ASU

desertlaw
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby desertlaw » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:48 pm

Jake5 wrote:
JD Janitor wrote:Im not from Arizona and havent heard the perspective of someone more familiar with the area regarding these two schools. They are almost identical in rank. What are the major differences? What are the similarities? I've head a few people mention that UofA may be better than ASU but I have no idea as to the validity of this.


I'm from Arizona and applied to both of these schools. In at UofA, and still waiting on ASU. I have similar questions about what seperates the two and what would make one better than the other. In terms of location, ASU is clearly in a better place. It's located in Tempe which caters to the large UG campus and offers much to do in the way of night life. UofA is located in Tucson, which, outside of the UofA campus, isn't all that enjoyable for those who don't enjoy outdoor types of activities. humans

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gaud
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby gaud » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:51 pm

speaking the truth! ^^^

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goldeneye
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby goldeneye » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:37 pm

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Last edited by goldeneye on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

desertlaw
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby desertlaw » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:32 am

goldeneye wrote: Tucson is an 1.5 hour drive, and I know some people WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY CRAZY IF THEY ARE LAW STUDENTS that drive it daily, so it isn't bad. Additionally, there are just as many UA grads as there are ASU in Phoenix. ASU doesn't currently have a dean as Dean Berman left for GWU, and I imagine their ranking is going to drop when the new ones come up. Lots of friends who went the UA route and loved it.


No law student, especially a 1L, should drive 90 minutes each way to school. That's a terrible decision and gives your classmates an extra 3 hours of studying.

And living in Tucson is also probably a very bad life decision unless you're retired. You're going to need good grades at either ASU/UA to get BigLaw in Phoenix. You might as well do it in a place like Tempe that you can enjoy.

(The only reasonable argument to going to U of A would be that the town is so terrible, you won't want to do anything except study and therefore will be a better student...or maybe if your grandparents live there and have an extra room you can stay in for free)

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goldeneye
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby goldeneye » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:24 pm

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Last edited by goldeneye on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JD Janitor
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby JD Janitor » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:20 pm

Sounds like there is no significant difference between the two academically. It's simply a matter of preference regarding location. I only applied to univ. Arizona. In my mind, ASU was the lesser school and if I would be attending school in AZ I'd rather be at UofA. Maybe I should have applied to both. Oh well.

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goldeneye
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby goldeneye » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:26 am

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Last edited by goldeneye on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tajudad
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby tajudad » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:06 pm

Some other points not made:

1. Tucson tends to be more Democrat territory, and Phoenix area (not Tempe, though) tends to be Republican territory. If you expect to be politically active in anyway, that's a consideration.

2. Tucson is heavily influenced by Mexico and it's Mexican heritage, and has access to southern Arizona, which is even more influenced by Mexico. I would take that as a major plus, and have spent a lot of time down there. Tempe, on the other hand, is heavily influenced by bars and average-Joe bar culture, and is less interesting for that. That said, the Phoenix-Tempe area in general also is clearly a more vibrant and cosmopolitan place than Tucson. Whether you're bored or not depends on what kind of person you are, though. Bars and bar life are pretty boring to me.

3. Phoenix is hotter in the summer, and gets less rain in monsoon season.

Edit: 4. UofA has more history (it's been around for more than 125 years, ASU transitioned from a teacher's college 60 years ago) and is widely regarded as academically superior, though it can depend on the discipline and department. A lot of that has changed over the past 15 years. It used to be true that the legislature favored UofA in funding, but that's less true now, and the Board of Regents used to have no graduates of ASU, and that's not true anymore. In general, ASU has pulled even with ASU over the past 15 years in most areas ... except basketball.

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JD Janitor
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:21 pm

tajudad wrote:Some other points not made:

1. Tucson tends to be more Democrat territory, and Phoenix area (not Tempe, though) tends to be Republican territory. If you expect to be politically active in anyway, that's a consideration.

2. Tucson is heavily influenced by Mexico and it's Mexican heritage, and has access to southern Arizona, which is even more influenced by Mexico. I would take that as a major plus, and have spent a lot of time down there. Tempe, on the other hand, is heavily influenced by bars and average-Joe bar culture, and is less interesting for that. That said, the Phoenix-Tempe area in general also is clearly a more vibrant and cosmopolitan place than Tucson. Whether you're bored or not depends on what kind of person you are, though. Bars and bar life are pretty boring to me.

3. Phoenix is hotter in the summer, and gets less rain in monsoon season.

Edit: 4. UofA has more history (it's been around for more than 125 years, ASU transitioned from a teacher's college 60 years ago) and is widely regarded as academically superior, though it can depend on the discipline and department. A lot of that has changed over the past 15 years. It used to be true that the legislature favored UofA in funding, but that's less true now, and the Board of Regents used to have no graduates of ASU, and that's not true anymore. In general, ASU has pulled even with ASU over the past 15 years in most areas ... except basketball.



With my only AZ application resting in the hands of UofA, point nummber one from your list is my only concern. But I expect the majority of schools to follow the liberal trend.

desertlaw
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby desertlaw » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:36 pm

In terms of "culture," you're right to say that Tucson is influenced more by Mexico or hispanic culture, but that's only if you look at %'s. I'm sure there are much more total hispanic/latino people/neighborhoods in Phoenix rather than Tucson. You can find most types of culture in the greater Phoenix area - it's the 6th biggest city in AZ. Yes, the most prevalent culture in Tempe is "average Joe" and is maybe highbrow in Scottsdale, but at least you have some options.

OP should just visit Tucson for a weekend and get in all of the cool things to do (Eegee's, U of A campus, and a nice hike). Then OP will have experienced everything there is to do in Tucson, and then can go to ASU for law school.

There are certain things that reasonable people can disagree on. Tucson being a better place to live than Phoenix ---- is not one of them.

BeautifulSW
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby BeautifulSW » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:29 pm

As a frequent visitor from a neighboring state, I much prefer Tucson over Phoenix. But the advice here is correct. A new lawyer would be wise to begin in Phoenix. Either way, though, Arizona is an amazing place with (I think) a very bright commercial future and not an overabundance of lawyers. You really can't go wrong.

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gaud
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby gaud » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:00 pm

I love the rivalry between the two lol

JCDent
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby JCDent » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:47 pm

Got into both last year, ultimately decided on UofA but deferred and now decided not to go to law school. I am from out of state, but took a trip to visit both schools. Here are my thoughts.

1. ASU is a pretty lame campus, and the law school is dated, dark and dreary. They had plans to move to the downtown campus but that's not for a couple years, meaning your first year or two at least would be in the dirt hole. The library is okay, but not nearly as spectacular as ASU peeps seem to think it is

2. UofA has a gorgeous, clean, vibrant campus and the law school is new, bright and modern. It gave me a much more appealing vibe, like it was a place I could see myself studying long hours in. ASU's law school would have had me bolting to head home for studying.

3. If you want nightlife, then being in the Phoenix area is better, but Tempe is kind of a hole. Still, unquestionably there is more to do in Phoenix.

4. Shopping (if that's your thing) is way better in Phoenix, but as previously mentioned it's a relatively short drive between the two so this is a non-factor.

5. The cost of living is a bit less in Tucson

When I was planning to go, I was set to move down with my girlfriend and dog and to me Tucson and UofA was far and away the better choice. Keep in mind that I love outdoor activities, have no interest in nightlife and am generally anti-social. It's a personal decision, but UofA has better clerkship placement and is generally regarded as a school that places better than it's ranking career wise. ASU is a new-comer to T1, and it's still debatable if it's there to stay.

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MormonChristian
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby MormonChristian » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:05 pm

JCDent wrote:. ASU is a new-comer to T1, and it's still debatable if it's there to stay.


I have heard a lot of people in the legal community say the same thing.

tliles
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby tliles » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Absolutely U of A, but that is where I did my undergrad so I'm a bit partial. UA definitely has more of a college feel as Tucson was more or less built around the campus as opposed to ASU whose campus was built into the city. UAs campus is cohesive and really quite pretty, its a laid back atmosphere. I lived in the foothills after moving off campus (something I would suggest) and Tucson traffic is a plus ... terrible drivers (laughably awful), but very little commute no matter where in the town you are. Politics wise, I'm conservative and never felt displaced in Tucson, although I'm sure it helps that Arizona as a whole is a red state. I also have plenty of liberal friends who were/are in Tucson still and as far as I know they've never had any real political issues with being there either. I agree with what was mentioned about ASU being fairly new to T1, it's hard to say for how long it will stay where it is even though the schools are fairly similar ranking wise at this point. While it is true that new attorneys are probably better off working in Phoenix after graduation, Phoenix firms aren't going to reject you for having gone to UA, those jobs are not ASU exclusive. I think holistically U of A is just a more pleasant place to be, Tucson is not a city most (sane people) would want to live in forever, but its definitely agreeable while in school.

BlueIris
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby BlueIris » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:46 am

I would read this article before deciding between the two. . .

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2012/03/new- ... efeat.html

"To offer one illustration, for the class of 2008, ASU reported 99.7% employed and Arizona reported 97.3%—this is in stark contrast to the large gap that separates them this year, at 98.2% and 87.4%, respectively. This disparity gave ASU a huge ranking boost compared to its more modest neighboring school. When one digs into the underlying numbers, however, the disparity between them begins to dissipate (11.3% of ASU’s JD jobs are part time, compared to 1.7% at Arizona; ASU’s combined “academic” and “business” jobs constitute 17.7% of overall employment, while Arizona’s is 12.3%)."

PolySuyGuy
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby PolySuyGuy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:10 am

BlueIris wrote:I would read this article before deciding between the two. . .

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2012/03/new- ... efeat.html

" ASU’s combined “academic” and “business” jobs constitute 17.7% of overall employment, while Arizona’s is 12.3%)."



I talked to a Arizona grad from last year and she said only about 20% of them had law jobs at graduation. She of course technically had one since the law school hired her and quiet a few other people as "law clerks".
It took her just under nine months to find a law job with a firm and it is part time. Not in the area she wants to work in either.

rad lulz
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:01 am

JD Janitor wrote:Im not from Arizona

Don't go to either without significant ties to AZ.

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gaud
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby gaud » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:01 am

PolySuyGuy wrote:
BlueIris wrote:I would read this article before deciding between the two. . .

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2012/03/new- ... efeat.html

" ASU’s combined “academic” and “business” jobs constitute 17.7% of overall employment, while Arizona’s is 12.3%)."



I talked to a Arizona grad from last year and she said only about 20% of them had law jobs at graduation. She of course technically had one since the law school hired her and quiet a few other people as "law clerks".
It took her just under nine months to find a law job with a firm and it is part time. Not in the area she wants to work in either.


This is more realistic than school stats.

EDIT: For both ASU and UofA

PolySuyGuy
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby PolySuyGuy » Thu May 10, 2012 12:49 pm

goldeneye wrote:. ASU doesn't currently have a dean as Dean Berman left for GWU, and I imagine their ranking is going to drop when the new ones come up.



Image

PolySuyGuy
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Re: Arizona State v. University of Arizona

Postby PolySuyGuy » Thu May 10, 2012 12:51 pm

rad lulz wrote:Don't go to either without significant ties to AZ.



I have Arizona ties.


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