Decisions decisions...a little help would be wonderful Forum

[vamedic03]

Go to Chicago. I'm sure you'll find the QOL there to be just as enjoyable as UVA. UVA is in a shithole anyway, have you visited Charlottesville? There's literally one street in the town where you could do things outside of the school. Visit all the schools during ASW if you can and make your decision then.

So, spending 24 hours in a town lets you judge it as a shithole? "Literally one street in the town"? Clearly you have not been to Charlottesville for more than 24 hours.

Yes it does. Everyone has a different idea of somewhere they'd like to spend 3 years and C-ville is my idea of a shithole. True, I wasn't there for more than 24 hours but even then I couldn't wait to leave. Some people on this board love C-ville and you're clearly one of them. So good for you, it's not for me it's a shithole and I'll continue to call it out as such.

As for whether or not 15k is a significant amount of money, it really isn't. The difference between 200k and 245k worth of debt is minimal when looking at the grand scheme of things.

No, $45k is pretty damn significant and can easily make a difference on the career decisions that you make. It's easy for a 0L to say that the size of the loan isn't significant. It's quite different when you are a 3L.

[joemoviebuff]

I can vouch for Charlottesville's awesomeness, too. There are plenty of things to do. It has tons of vineyards, more restaurants per capita than any other place in the country besides New York City, and Shenandoah and historical places like Monticello are just a few minutes drive away. We just had the Virginia Film Festival take place here in November. I've never been bored here.

If I was making the decision without having been to law school, I would've probably chosen Chicago, despite what I hear about its socially awkward reputation. However, I think you should strongly consider M or V with the money, probably V (I think the 15k makes a difference). Also, you'll save a lot of money by living here in Cville rather than a place like Chicago or NYC.

[joemoviebuff]

And dude, what do you mean you "couldn't wait to leave" after 24 hours? What was here that was so offensive to you?

[Transferthrowaway]

The only question here is whether you want to go to an elite T5 school or somewhere else. This should be a no-brainer.

[JoeMo]

Haven't been to C-Ville yet and won't until ASW, but I've heard great things about it and would just encourage you to visit as many places as possible. As for the money, I wouldn't let 15K be the reason I chose one school over another, but do recognize that the difference between 200K and 215K of debt is 15K, which is still a good chunk of change even though the two debts look more or less equal.

and this is what I've been saying. That IMO C-Ville is a shithole but that OP should visit all of these places before they make a decision if all their decision will be based upon is how they feel at one school over another.

And of course 15k is not chump change but in the grand scheme of things I wouldn't base my decision on 15k.

[bobbyh1919]

Out of curiosity, what made C-Ville a "shithole" to you? I can certainly see you not feeling like you would enjoy it there for 3 years, but that's a far cry from "shithole."

And btw I'm not challenging you (never seen the place), I'm just curious as someone who got a great offer from UVA.

[JoeMo]

Out of curiosity, what made C-Ville a "shithole" to you? I can certainly see you not feeling like you would enjoy it there for 3 years, but that's a far cry from "shithole."

And btw I'm not challenging you (never seen the place), I'm just curious as someone who got a great offer from UVA.

shithole might be a bit of an overstatement although it is fun to see all the UVA people get offended when someone doesn't swoon over C-Ville because C-Ville is the greatest place in all the world.

It's just not somewhere I would enjoy being for more than a day. Although I'm sure there are plenty of people that feel that way about a lot of places. The "shithole" mentality might've been due to the fact that I had just been to DC which I very much enjoyed and by comparison C-Ville was very unassuming. But to each their own and I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy going to UVA.

Full disclosure: I have a feeling I'll feel the same way about A2 but I'm still going there so clearly I don't think anyone's decision on where to attend law school should be based on the overall shit factor of the city the school is located in. You need to go to the place that's going to give you the most bang for your buck and this is why I think the OP should be looking at a no brainer situation and should be going to Chicago.

[83947368]

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[cooley4lyfe]

OP here. Big thanks for the votes and comments as well. To me, 45k seems a great amount and is definitely part of the equation. 1 year of tuition seems awesome. Nevertheless, that would only be about 4-5 months of biglaw salary after taxes, and a third of a year's salary puts what will be a life-long decision in a somewhat different context. As I suspected, the votes reflect the weight of t5 vs. the value of 45k.

Fwiw I've visited UChi and UVA and can definitively say I largely prefer Charlottesville over Hyde Park. Over Chicago downtown? Maybe not, but I'll be locked up during law school anyway.

[JoeMo]

OP here. Big thanks for the votes and comments as well. To me, 45k seems a great amount and is definitely part of the equation. 1 year of tuition seems awesome. Nevertheless, that would only be about 4-5 months of biglaw salary after taxes, and a third of a year's salary puts what will be a life-long decision in a somewhat different context. As I suspected, the votes reflect the weight of t5 vs. the value of 45k.

Fwiw I've visited UChi and UVA and can definitively say I largely prefer Charlottesville over Hyde Park. Over Chicago downtown? Maybe not, but I'll be locked up during law school anyway.

Then you have your answer. Go to UVA and enjoy it.

In the interest of full disclosure: I was wl'ed at UVA which deepens my hatred for UVA and CVille but had I been accepted I might be singing a different tune and trying to convince myself that CVille is the most winningest place in the whole world (much like I'll be doing with A2)

[cam_leafer]

No. Don't go to UVA. Honestly, I lost tons of respect for a school that takes in kids from Patrick Henry College (PHC).

If you don't know what PHC is then check out the following: --LinkRemoved--

And 45K is nothing when you are out of school. The ass hats from Charlottesville will say that it matters, but it doesn't. Well, maybe it does if you want to buy a Mercedes during law school; but, from UChicago (or hopefully from whatever better ranked school you'll get into) you'll get a nice corporate salary that'll make 45k look like chump change.

If I ever have to hire someone, and I see UVA, I'll make sure to look to other applications--I might even give Cooley a nod above UVA. Man, I can't believe they took kids from PHC.

(And yes I did get accepted to UVA, but I'm sorry I wasted my application money on them. I'm not going to ask for a refund, because it was my mistake to apply in the first place.)

[JoeMo]

but do go to UVA so that you can shop here: http://www.mlahart.com/University-of-Vi ... hwodowqPTQ

[cam_leafer]

Ahhhh.....

Mods: Absolutely not

Just search, there are many more. PHC is a feeder school for UVA.

There are just so many of the PHC grads at that cruddy place. It's amazing--God's next army is being prepared in a 'top 10'--and it's so sad. Again DO NOT go to UVA!

[cam_leafer]

but do go to UVA so that you can shop here: http://www.mlahart.com/University-of-Vi ... hwodowqPTQ

Haha! Yes, go there for shopping, and only for shopping!

[berkeleykel06]

Ahhhh.....

NO

Just search, there are many more. PHC is a feeder school for UVA.

There are just so many of the PHC grads at that cruddy place. It's amazing--God's next army is being prepared in a 'top 10'--and it's so sad. Again DO NOT go to UVA!

You are an asshole. Do you actually know any of these people you are condemning?

[cam_leafer]

No! Of course I do not! Why should I? They went to PHC! I wouldn't want to know them personally. Now, the question is should I be called an ass*ole for being mean to PHC students whose mission is to set America back onto its Puritanical path? No, I don't think so. I also don't think I'd be an ass*ole for thinking Gingrich or Perry are idiots even though I've never met them. (Gingrich and Perry love PHC students: PHC is a solely Republican feeder school, and the Hill loves them for their work ethic and unquestionable drive.) Do I think what PHC does is ass*olish? Yes very much so. Again watch the documentary; follow other news sources; see of what these brain-washed kids are made and you might agree in condemning them. I honestly feel bad for these kids, but condemning them is the best I can do.

Ahhhh.....

(And again, per the Mods, NO)

Just search, there are many more. PHC is a feeder school for UVA.

There are just so many of the PHC grads at that cruddy place. It's amazing--God's next army is being prepared in a 'top 10'--and it's so sad. Again DO NOT go to UVA!

You are an asshole. Do you actually know any of these people you are condemning?

[cam_leafer2]

OK, so I got banned for posting links. They are linkedin public profiles, but ok....

Anyway I've got to respond to one poster who I think deleted:

No. Don't go to UVA. Honestly, I lost tons of respect for a school that takes in kids from Patrick Henry College (PHC).

If you don't know what PHC is then check out the following: --LinkRemoved--

And 45K is nothing when you are out of school. The ass hats from Charlottesville will say that it matters, but it doesn't. Well, maybe it does if you want to buy a Mercedes during law school; but, from UChicago (or hopefully from whatever better ranked school you'll get into) you'll get a nice corporate salary that'll make 45k look like chump change.

If I ever have to hire someone, and I see UVA, I'll make sure to look to other applications--I might even give Cooley a nod above UVA. Man, I can't believe they took kids from PHC.

(And yes I did get accepted to UVA, but I'm sorry I wasted my application money on them. I'm not going to ask for a refund, because it was my mistake to apply in the first place.)

(1) So you're mad because UVA doesn't discriminate against viewpoints you disagree with?

I'm not mad; I just feel bad for UVA for buckling to whatever pressures PHC might be enforcing on it. Notice that Harvard or Yale doesn't really take PHC grads. Put your question differently, if a student who wrote he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan on his resume, would I be inclined to 'discriminate'? Well, technically no because it might be illegal. But I'd sure find a way to ding him. So I think the whole 'mad because this polity doesn't discriminate against these viewpoints' is the wrong way to phrase things. You know as well as I do that some things are discriminated against because they just deviate from socially accepted norms. I would say PHC deviates from a socially accepted norm for numerous reasons.

(2) There are a fair number of mormons / BYU grads at UVA as well, do you have a problem with that?

No, mormons/byu grads aren't bad at all unless they start instilling their beliefs on you. (Then again people still have reservations about mormons.) PHC grads are another story.

(3) Do you plan to live your entire life in your sheltered existence, surrounded only by people with the same, shared viewpoints?

No, I don't plan to live in a sheltered existence. I obviously don't live in one since I'm raging about another existence, namely PHC. Anyway, I'm genuinely of a liberal mindset, but I'd gamble PHC grads certainly are more narrow-minded in their viewpoints than I am, that is, they wouldn't really 'listen' to my arguments. (If you want I can try to find articles of anthropologists who pose some interesting questions to PHC-types and they expose the organization's illogical behavior.) Lastly, I think there is a point where stupidity commixed with religion has to stop if it has a negative effect on others. From what I understand, I think radical Islam and fundamentalist Christianity has had--and continues to have--a negative effect on others and these organizations serve only to throw us back into the dark ages barring members from having any distinctive/meaningful thoughts.

[barneytrouble]

Also remember that after interest you pay over X years, it is a bit more than 45k. There is also the difference in COL.

[Xifeng]

I really suggest visiting schools. I thought I would end up somewhere completely different before I went to every ASW. ASWs are enormously important and help you get a feel for the school!

[JoeMo]

and this thread has lost me.

[Helmholtz]

IMO: UChicago > NYU = UVA > UMich

[cam_leaf3]

Why do I get banned for side-stepping a ban that stemmed from posting links? Anyway, don't go to UVA. I don't know how much I have to preach this. And for the mods who ban, I can keep creating accounts on various IP accounts using various proxies; so, I guess we can start a new challenge.

[cooley4lyfe]

So I shouldn't go to UVA because of PHC. Got it. Anyone else?

[Transferthrowaway]

And for the mods who ban, I can keep creating accounts on various IP accounts using various proxies; so, I guess we can start a new challenge.

[dailygrind]

I'd probably go to UVA. The money's nice, you seem like you want what UVA offers, and if you've got ties to Texas + go to UVA, I hear it's a pretty good position to be in come OGI (the Texas thing was never relevant to me though, so you probably shouldn't take my word for it).