Case in NYC Market?

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drpeppanrice
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Case in NYC Market?

Postby drpeppanrice » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:04 pm

Quick question: I recently spoke with a recent grad from Case Western. The person claims that the Case brand holds up really well on the east coast, and employment on the east coast hasn't been to tough even for people outside the top 15% in class rank. Can anyone confirm this?

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mrtoren
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby mrtoren » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:02 pm

drpeppanrice wrote:Quick question: I recently spoke with a recent grad from Case Western. The person claims that the Case brand holds up really well on the east coast, and employment on the east coast hasn't been to tough even for people outside the top 15% in class rank. Can anyone confirm this?

Case places in Ohio..and the Midwest to some extent. Beyond this, you need uber connections or pure luck.

You would have better luck at Dozo, Brooklyn, or St. John's for NYC.

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20130312
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:04 pm

Blatantly false. You should praise your deity if you crack into the Chicago market, let alone NYC.

DeweyWins
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby DeweyWins » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:14 pm

drpeppanrice wrote:Quick question: I recently spoke with a recent grad from Case Western. The person claims that the Case brand holds up really well on the east coast, and employment on the east coast hasn't been to tough even for people outside the top 15% in class rank. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't think that's accurate. Case has a small OCI in NYC with a couple of large firms (CW&T, C&P) but absent special qualifications (e.g., an IP background) it's very difficult to get hired unless you're in the top 10% of the class after 1L.

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thexfactor
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby thexfactor » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:11 pm

ITE i dont even think top 10% can get you NYC market. My friend goes to Case law and there is a list of where all the 2L students summered at and I think I only saw 1 or 2 biglaw NY firms.
I think you need top 5% to have a decent shot at biglaw/midlaw nyc.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:53 am

2L here. People definitely got interviews in NYC, but I don't know anyone who got offers. If they did, they're certainly top 10%. Some of the top students got interviews CWRU has no business getting, but again, no offers I know of. Compared to schools of similar or higher rank in NYC, no, CWRU is not competitive. East coast generally, who knows, but not biglaw.

Offers in Cleveland and Ohio aren't easy to come by, frankly. I'd be careful and demand a scholarship if you are going to play the Biglaw lottery. Most people I know have 2L summer jobs, but not many are in biglaw.

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IAFG
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby IAFG » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:55 am

I wonder what this person meant by "employment"

MrAnon
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby MrAnon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:15 pm

You can use common sense to figure this out. Case for NYC makes no sense.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:41 pm

Full disclosure, I chose Cleveland Marshall over Case (want to stay local after graduation). With that said, the tuition at Case is absolutely absurd. $42.5k per year x 3 = $127.5k just in tuition (that's excluding likely increases in tuition). Add to that about $12-15k for cost of living depending on your lifestyle and you're looking at almost $200k in debt for a school ranked in the mid 50's.

I have several friends who ended up going to Case because they thought it placed better outside of Cleveland than other Ohio schools except Ohio State. After striking out at OCI, they are now scrambling for jobs in Cleveland/Columbus.

Don't get me wrong, Case IS a better school than Marshall. It DOES place better outside of Cleveland than Marshall. What I'm saying is that the risk of taking on that kind of debt for the very slim chance that its degree can get you a job on the east coast is not worth it. According to my friends there, you'd have to finish top 10%, maybe top 5%, to land good jobs outside of Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Columbus/Indianapolis. That's extremely difficult for a school that has a very smart student body (a significant portion of them score in the mid 160's and are on scholarship).

If you have the numbers to get into Case, you probably have the numbers to get into schools on the east coast that place better in NYC than Case.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:49 pm

And another side note, why do you get BigLaw in NYC? Is that where you're from? Do you just want to start your career there? Have you just always wanted to work and live in NYC?

I ask because BigLaw, although harder to find, is much more valuable in cities in the Midwest. Making $145k in Cleveland is like making $311k in New York (according to the CNNMoney calculator). Making $145k in Pittsburgh = $342k in New York. Yes, there are less BigLaw options in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, but both of these cities have pretty good legal markets given their intermediate size and lack of a dominant regional school.

If you're debt averse, going to a private school that costs as much as Case and hoping to land BigLaw in NYC is not a good option. If you really like Case, try to squeeze a scholarship out of them but realize that you will will need top grades and some luck to place outside of the Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Columbus.

If you're NYC or bust, I'd definitely choose a more local school.

cdelgado
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby cdelgado » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:02 am

AVBucks4239 wrote:Full disclosure, I chose Cleveland Marshall over Case (want to stay local after graduation). With that said, the tuition at Case is absolutely absurd. $42.5k per year x 3 = $127.5k just in tuition (that's excluding likely increases in tuition). Add to that about $12-15k for cost of living depending on your lifestyle and you're looking at almost $200k in debt for a school ranked in the mid 50's.

I have several friends who ended up going to Case because they thought it placed better outside of Cleveland than other Ohio schools except Ohio State. After striking out at OCI, they are now scrambling for jobs in Cleveland/Columbus.

Don't get me wrong, Case IS a better school than Marshall. It DOES place better outside of Cleveland than Marshall. What I'm saying is that the risk of taking on that kind of debt for the very slim chance that its degree can get you a job on the east coast is not worth it. According to my friends there, you'd have to finish top 10%, maybe top 5%, to land good jobs outside of Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Columbus/Indianapolis. That's extremely difficult for a school that has a very smart student body (a significant portion of them score in the mid 160's and are on scholarship).

If you have the numbers to get into Case, you probably have the numbers to get into schools on the east coast that place better in NYC than Case.

+1

Dead on.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:47 pm

^ I agree with AVBucks; the only reason I'm not tearing my hair out is that I got a fat scholarship to go to Case, AND I want to be in Cleveland (but maybe not). Debt is the worst thing about law school. If you can target a market and go for cheap, do it. Case takes good care of its top students in terms of getting jobs anywhere and is a fine school with great faculty, but outside the top 10-15%, it's entirely up to your own ability to hustle and compete with students in similar situations, of which there are thousands.

If you really want to work in NYC and you can get into Case, you can probably get into Cardozo, possibly you have a shot at Fordham? I wouldn't pay sticker at either place, though. There are plenty of people from Fordham striking out in NYC, you know.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case in NYC Market?

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:56 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:And another side note, why do you get BigLaw in NYC? Is that where you're from? Do you just want to start your career there? Have you just always wanted to work and live in NYC?

I ask because BigLaw, although harder to find, is much more valuable in cities in the Midwest. Making $145k in Cleveland is like making $311k in New York (according to the CNNMoney calculator). Making $145k in Pittsburgh = $342k in New York. Yes, there are less BigLaw options in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, but both of these cities have pretty good legal markets given their intermediate size and lack of a dominant regional school.

If you're debt averse, going to a private school that costs as much as Case and hoping to land BigLaw in NYC is not a good option. If you really like Case, try to squeeze a scholarship out of them but realize that you will will need top grades and some luck to place outside of the Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Columbus.

If you're NYC or bust, I'd definitely choose a more local school.


And I'd add:

Biglaw in NYC is a dream for most in recent years. Either go all in or forget it. T2 Regional --> NYC Biglaw is not credited. Target a regional market, go to NYC only if you attend school there or do very well in school.

Cost of living IS far lower in the Midwest, and this has huge benefits for your life. Not everyone wants to live in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc. but think long term. There are still significant numbers of F500 companies headquartered in this region, millions of people, and cheap living. If every graduate student moves to NYC and LA, what do you think the job markets in those places will be like? There is an absurd oversupply of law graduates, but nowhere is it worse than New York and California. People there slash throats to get jobs in the Public Defender's office. Here, there are significant (but still insufficient) numbers of local gov't and small firm jobs for the taking. No, they aren't glamorous. Do you care? If yes...then don't go regional.

That's not so much an endorsement of Ohio or any particular law school as it is choosing a region and making the best cost/rank decision you possibly can.




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