Boston College 1.1k/mo for 10yrs vs Boston University 1.3k

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Boston College (96k CoA) vs Boston University (105k CoA)

Boston College (1100/mo. for 10 yrs.)
26
72%
Boston University (1300/mo. for 10 yrs.)
10
28%
 
Total votes: 36

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jpSartre
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Boston College 1.1k/mo for 10yrs vs Boston University 1.3k

Postby jpSartre » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:26 am

Pretty set on BC for better urban job prospects (Boston and NY) over the VA, DC options out of W&M. I think the 50k now will be worth it. Opinions?

Update..... BC or BU at equal CoA (105) results: 31 to 32 BU

Update..... BC increased scholy by 3k a year
Last edited by jpSartre on Sat May 21, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 10 times in total.

FiveSermon
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:24 pm

Yes no doubt it's worth it.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby BlueDiamond » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:27 pm

I'm somewhat in the same boat.. 20K a year from WM and 28K a year from BC.. Barring a waitlist acceptance I'll likely be at BC

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:12 pm

Go to the higher ranked law school. :D

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jpSartre
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:04 pm

I'm second guessing myself bc of Virginia midlaw opportunities being > Boston/NYC biglaw for QoL

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby BlueDiamond » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:09 pm

jpSartre wrote:I'm second guessing myself bc of Virginia midlaw opportunities being > Boston/NYC biglaw for QoL


QoL is basically shit for either option

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jpSartre
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:19 am

bump. i wanna make good money

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bk1
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:23 am

jpSartre wrote:bump. i wanna make good money


Realize that the majority of the class out of both these schools does not make "good money." And by that I mean a 6 figure or close to it salary.

If you want to work in Boston/NYC then take BC hands down. 105k debt is definitely manageable for the most likely salary you will end up with out of that school (30-60k) and it still does give you markedly better chance at biglaw than W&M.

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jpSartre
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:48 pm

bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:bump. i wanna make good money


Realize that the majority of the class out of both these schools does not make "good money." And by that I mean a 6 figure or close to it salary.

If you want to work in Boston/NYC then take BC hands down. 105k debt is definitely manageable for the most likely salary you will end up with out of that school (30-60k) and it still does give you markedly better chance at biglaw than W&M.


Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.

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bk1
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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:03 pm

jpSartre wrote:Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.


You really think that a majority of BC's class is making 6 figure salaries?

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby Rule11 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:17 pm

jpSartre wrote:
bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:bump. i wanna make good money


Realize that the majority of the class out of both these schools does not make "good money." And by that I mean a 6 figure or close to it salary.

If you want to work in Boston/NYC then take BC hands down. 105k debt is definitely manageable for the most likely salary you will end up with out of that school (30-60k) and it still does give you markedly better chance at biglaw than W&M.


Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.


This is atrociously unsubtle xo flame (and I say that as someone who enjoys such flame when well-executed). Please have more dignity.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:49 pm

Rule11 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:
bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:bump. i wanna make good money


Realize that the majority of the class out of both these schools does not make "good money." And by that I mean a 6 figure or close to it salary.

If you want to work in Boston/NYC then take BC hands down. 105k debt is definitely manageable for the most likely salary you will end up with out of that school (30-60k) and it still does give you markedly better chance at biglaw than W&M.


Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.


This is atrociously unsubtle xo flame (and I say that as someone who enjoys such flame when well-executed). Please have more dignity.


why you so mad though?

---

bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.


You really think that a majority of BC's class is making 6 figure salaries?


I don't have to think the majority of BC's class makes 6 figures to also hold that its not the case that I will like make 30-60k

Speaking about BigLaw out of T30:

bk1 wrote:You are unlikely to get biglaw out of any of these schools. Aim for it, but be ready for other career paths since you have a 75%+ chance of not getting biglaw.

If you truly want biglaw, then you really should retake/reapply and settle for no less than the T18 or so.


BC places 33% in NLJ 250. Better than Wash U, Vanderbilt, U Texas and USC, and on par with UCLA. This kid doesn't even know things.

In order for biglaw to be likely, or more probable than not, you'd have to go to Penn, Columbia, Cornell or Chicago.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:19 pm

jpSartre wrote:I don't have to think the majority of BC's class makes 6 figures to also hold that its not the case that I will like make 30-60k


The most likely scenario for a BC grad is making 30-60k. What makes you think you can bunk that trend so easily?


jpSartre wrote:BC places 33% in NLJ 250. Better than Wash U, Vanderbilt, U Texas and USC, and on par with UCLA. This kid doesn't even know things.

In order for biglaw to be likely, or more probable than not, you'd have to go to Penn, Columbia, Cornell or Chicago.


I should have said T12 and not T18, but I was being generous. BC is probably comparable to USC/UCLA these days (lol if you think that somehow UCLA and USC are different), a notch worse than Vandy, and UT I am not so sure. Of course BC is stronger than WUSTL, I don't include WUSTL in the T18.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:I don't have to think the majority of BC's class makes 6 figures to also hold that its not the case that I will like make 30-60k


The most likely scenario for a BC grad is making 30-60k. What makes you think you can bunk that trend so easily?


How do you think this is correct? Show me statistics that make this statement - that the outcome with the highest probability is 30-60k - plausible.
Last edited by jpSartre on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:30 pm

jpSartre wrote:How do you think this is correct? Show me statistics that make this statement plausible.


Data from 2009 (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681):

Image

Coupled with the bimodal salary distribution (http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib):

Image

Add the fact that NALP data only accounts for 20k graduates (which is about half of all graduates) so the lower mode is much larger than that graph makes it seem, that 2009 grads had a much better time than future grads will because they did OCI in 2007, and that those with the lowest salaries are the most likely to not report salary info has me pretty much definitively saying that the majority of BC's current graduates are not making more than 60k.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby NOLA Proud » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:46 pm

bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:Nah bro you're second paragraph is inaccurate. Though what else should I expect from a megaposter.


You really think that a majority of BC's class is making 6 figure salaries?


I take issue with this. While I completely agree with your point that legal salaries follow a bimodial curve out of graduation, I think you vastly underestimate the rate at which salaries increase.

While it is certainly true that PI will likely never hit 6 figures (largely self-selection out of these schools keep in mind), most other paths in fact do. Even Gov't legal jobs I believe hit 6 figures after some time (5-8 years for ADA in a lot of cities?)

You are ignoring that while yes midlaw and even smalllaw start out significantly lower (50-60ish) these do increase pretty significantly over time. I would feel pretty comfortable saying that a majority of BC's grads are earning 6 figures. Perhaps not right out and some perhaps because they prefer the more noble path of PI, but most do in fact earn 6 figures.



To actually address the question. There is no wrong decision. In-state W&M is a tremendous school at a great price, but BC is worth the money if you are looking for a job in the northeast.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:01 pm

NOLA Proud wrote:You are ignoring that while yes midlaw and even smalllaw start out significantly lower (50-60ish) these do increase pretty significantly over time. I would feel pretty comfortable saying that a majority of BC's grads are earning 6 figures. Perhaps not right out and some perhaps because they prefer the more noble path of PI, but most do in fact earn 6 figures.


Yes, I am ignoring salary increases. I'm also conveniently ignoring that roughly 10-20% of BC's class is unemployed/employed part time/employed in a non legal job.

Life is tough out there and yes you can get raises but I wouldn't necessarily assume they are going to be significant in the short run. I would also say that it would be foolish to go to BC if your goal is to make "good money" if by that OP means 6 figures.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:17 pm

30% make over 145

10% make less than 145

15% have no salary data

15% part time

30% public or unemployed

Assuming

Of the 10% making less than 145, 7% make 30-60k, 3% make 60-100k

Of the 15% not reported, 10% make 30-60k, 5% make 60-100k

The 15% working part time make 30k

Of the 30% that work for the public or are unemployed, 5% have clerkships, 10% make 30-60k, 5% make over 60k, and 10% are unemployed

---

35% make 6 figures (assuming clerkships can exit to 6 figures)

13% make 60-100k

42% make 30-60k

10% are unemployed

---

48% make over 60k

52% make less than 60k

Based off of pretty reasonable assumptions, I don't think its more likely that I'll make 30-60k than 60-160k.



--------------

"good money" is 80k+

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:57 pm

jpSartre wrote:48% make over 60k

52% make less than 60k

Based off of pretty reasonable assumptions, I don't think its more likely that I'll make 30-60k than 60-160k.



--------------

"good money" is 80k+


I'd believe the 50/50 thing to be true for those who did OCI during the boom (which includes the class of 2009). I doubt it is that rosy anymore. However I take issue with your analysis in the details such as:

jpSartre wrote:Of the 15% not reported, 10% make 30-60k, 5% make 60-100k


I highly doubt that 1/3 of those not reporting are making 60-100k. That is a gross overestimation.

jpSartre wrote:Of the 30% that work for the public or are unemployed, 5% have clerkships, 10% make 30-60k, 5% make over 60k, and 10% are unemployed


I believe that clerkships are included in the salary numbers, though I could be wrong. But if you think that a full 1/4 of PI kids from BC are making over 60k then you have another thing coming.

So while it may have been 50/50 at one time, I would place it more like 30/70 at best right now.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby NOLA Proud » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:22 pm

bk1 wrote:
NOLA Proud wrote:You are ignoring that while yes midlaw and even smalllaw start out significantly lower (50-60ish) these do increase pretty significantly over time. I would feel pretty comfortable saying that a majority of BC's grads are earning 6 figures. Perhaps not right out and some perhaps because they prefer the more noble path of PI, but most do in fact earn 6 figures.


Yes, I am ignoring salary increases. I'm also conveniently ignoring that roughly 10-20% of BC's class is unemployed/employed part time/employed in a non legal job.

Life is tough out there and yes you can get raises but I wouldn't necessarily assume they are going to be significant in the short run. I would also say that it would be foolish to go to BC if your goal is to make "good money" if by that OP means 6 figures.



Listen, I am by no means trying to paint a rosy picture of the legal market at the moment, but the doom and gloom is perhaps a touch overstated.

Yes, it blows that 10+% of a class is unemployed 9 months out. That doesn't mean that they will never get a legal job. That also doesn't mean that they will never make a dollar in their life. BC actually has a pretty good LRAP and there are other means of loan repayment for low paying PI legal jobs out there. While it is true that these people may not occupy these jobs right after graduation, that is not to say they will be forever unable to obtain one.

2 other quick points.

"It would be foolish to go to BC if your goal is to make money"

1. It is stupid to go to law school for this reason, regardless of school. 3 years of hell is not worth it simply for the promise of financial comfort. Get an MBA - they make more money usually anyway.

2. I don't get the BC hate. Look at the chart. BC fairs pretty comparably with the other schools listed. Better than a solid number of them. It doesn't list the T14, but I'll guarantee there are T14 grads out there in the same position as the 10% at BC without a legal job 9 months out. Fewer to be sure, but being in the bottom 10% anywhere that has grades is going to leave you in a tough spot.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:32 pm

NOLA Proud wrote:2 other quick points.

"It would be foolish to go to BC if your goal is to make money"

1. It is stupid to go to law school for this reason, regardless of school. 3 years of hell is not worth it simply for the promise of financial comfort. Get an MBA - they make more money usually anyway.

2. I don't get the BC hate. Look at the chart. BC fairs pretty comparably with the other schools listed. Better than a solid number of them. It doesn't list the T14, but I'll guarantee there are T14 grads out there in the same position as the 10% at BC without a legal job 9 months out. Fewer to be sure, but being in the bottom 10% anywhere that has grades is going to leave you in a tough spot.


I agree. I only singled out BC in this instance because of OP's desire to "make good money" and that OP is considering BC. Yes, what I said is easily attributable to even the best law schools in the country.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby jpSartre » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Even if I conceded all your points (except for the "I think clerkship are included" which is unfounded), its more like 60/40.

On top of that, your counterpoint to my "1/3 of under 145k are making over 60k" assertion is unreasonable as you have, in other places, admitted to the overstatement of the midlaw myth. It is not unreasonable to assume that 5% of the BC class is placed in 60-100k midlaw jobs.

Fully adjusting for your point about public attorneys then, it seems reasonable for us to land at a 45/55 split.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:17 pm

jpSartre wrote:Even if I conceded all your points (except for the "I think clerkship are included" which is unfounded), its more like 60/40.

On top of that, your counterpoint to my "1/3 of under 145k are making over 60k" assertion is unreasonable as you have, in other places, admitted to the overstatement of the midlaw myth. It is not unreasonable to assume that 5% of the BC class is placed in 60-100k midlaw jobs.

Fully adjusting for your point about public attorneys then, it seems reasonable for us to land at a 45/55 split.


You are in for a rude awakening then. Ask the BU/BC students on this board and I bet they would fully agree that you are being way too optimistic.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:18 pm

bk1 wrote:
jpSartre wrote:Even if I conceded all your points (except for the "I think clerkship are included" which is unfounded), its more like 60/40.

On top of that, your counterpoint to my "1/3 of under 145k are making over 60k" assertion is unreasonable as you have, in other places, admitted to the overstatement of the midlaw myth. It is not unreasonable to assume that 5% of the BC class is placed in 60-100k midlaw jobs.

Fully adjusting for your point about public attorneys then, it seems reasonable for us to land at a 45/55 split.


You are in for a rude awakening then. Ask the BU/BC students on this board and I bet they would fully agree that you are being way too optimistic.


There are like no 3Ls or actual lawyers on these boards. The only actual lawyers that come here only come here sporadically to post a few times. Then poof.

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Re: William and Mary (55k CoA) vs. Boston College (105k CoA)

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:20 pm

FiveSermon wrote:There are like no 3Ls or actual lawyers on these boards. The only actual lawyers that come here only come here sporadically to post a few times. Then poof.


A 2L who had gone through OCI and talked to other 2L's who had done it would more than suffice. I don't think there are many BU/BC 2L's on here (the BU/BC kids on here I can think of are all 1L's, though I could be wrong).




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