Cleveland Marshall ($12k) vs Case Western (Sticker) Forum

[AVBucks4239]

I took a year off before law school solely to get into Case and apply to other schools to leverage some scholarship money from them. I did get into Case, but the scholarship money hasn't come my way. I did get scholarship money from Cleveland Marshall and just toured the law school today and really enjoyed it. Now I'm really torn. Here are the factors I'm looking at:

Cost: Case's tuition is $42k a year and is almost guaranteed to rise every year. Cleveland Marshall's is $18,200, but I have a $12,000 scholarship with a 3.2 stipulation.
Quality of School: Case is a better school with a better IP program. It is ranked in the top 55 (not sure about this year's rankings) while CM keeps trying to knock into the top 100. I'd assume most people not from Ohio probably have never even heard of Cleveland Marshall for that matter.
Facilities: Both are nice, but I'd have to say I like Cleveland Marshall's a little better. They just built a new atrium/student area that is very nice and the library is state of the art. Case is pretty nice too and is less confusing to get around.
Location: This is a wash. I like University Circle/Little Italy (Case) and downtown (CM).
Job Desires: I want to stay in Cleveland/Northeast Ohio. I know I'm a dying breed, but I enjoy all four seasons and just want to stay close to home. I'm not really concerned about getting Big Law, I just want a job in the Cleveland area.

Thanks for your help in advance,
AVB

[Lawl Shcool]

No brainer for Marshall here. TLS may disagree but I have yet to see any placement stats that put Case above CSU in any way, plus CSU is way cheaper. At either school you will need to be top 5%ish to have a good money shot at Cleveland biglaw so why not take less risk with the debt.

EDIT: saw that you mentioned having little interest in biglaw. This makes it even more of a slam dunk for CSU as the lower debt will give you way more options in taking a first job.

[ohiohawk58]

I'll likely be seeing you at Cleveland Marshall next year

[AVBucks4239]

No brainer for Marshall here. TLS may disagree but I have yet to see any placement stats that put Case above CSU in any way, plus CSU is way cheaper. At either school you will need to be top 5%ish to have a good money shot at Cleveland biglaw so why not take less risk with the debt.

EDIT: saw that you mentioned having little interest in biglaw. This makes it even more of a slam dunk for CSU as the lower debt will give you way more options in taking a first job.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking, but it's hard to make it official. My mom even bought a Case hoodie when I got in, haha.

[TommyK]

Few things in life are worth $120k+. Case western's limited prestige is not one of them.

[Upton Sinclair]

My question is what 2 people voted for Case and where can I get some of the drugs they're on? Dude, if you go to Case you're gonna get screwed hard with that debt.

Go to CSU, and try to get them to remove that scholarship stipulation if you can (use other acceptances with $ as leverage if you have them).

[SrLaw]

I took a year off before law school solely to get into Case and apply to other schools to leverage some scholarship money from them. I did get into Case, but the scholarship money hasn't come my way. I did get scholarship money from Cleveland Marshall and just toured the law school today and really enjoyed it. Now I'm really torn. Here are the factors I'm looking at:

Cost: Case's tuition is $42k a year and is almost guaranteed to rise every year. Cleveland Marshall's is $18,200, but I have a $12,000 scholarship with a 3.2 stipulation.
Quality of School: Case is a better school with a better IP program. It is ranked in the top 55 (not sure about this year's rankings) while CM keeps trying to knock into the top 100. I'd assume most people not from Ohio probably have never even heard of Cleveland Marshall for that matter.
Facilities: Both are nice, but I'd have to say I like Cleveland Marshall's a little better. They just built a new atrium/student area that is very nice and the library is state of the art. Case is pretty nice too and is less confusing to get around.
Location: This is a wash. I like University Circle/Little Italy (Case) and downtown (CM).
Job Desires: I want to stay in Cleveland/Northeast Ohio. I know I'm a dying breed, but I enjoy all four seasons and just want to stay close to home. I'm not really concerned about getting Big Law, I just want a job in the Cleveland area.

Thanks for your help in advance,
AVB

I am withdrawing this week. I hope you get some of my $96,000 scholarship that I am giving back. Best of luck.

[ohiohawk58]

OT but did not want to start a new thread, does anyone think a 17k schollie to akron (out of 20) would give me enough leverage to get more money from CSU

[TommyK]

OT but did not want to start a new thread, does anyone think a 17k schollie to akron (out of 20) would give me enough leverage to get more money from CSU

I'm not sure anybody's going to know enough about CSU's propensity for negotiation or how desirable of a candidate you are to them to be able to answer that question. I think it's enough for you to try though. There's really no downside to attempting as long as you're not an asshat about it. Good luck.

[The Gentleman]

Have you asked CM what the 1L GPA curve is? I remember a friend telling me that median is around C+, and 3.1-3.2 equates to top 20% or so. Not sure how accurate his info is, but it's something to consider.

Assuming you lost the CM scholarship after your first year, your total tuition debt upon graduation would be around 50k. (12k is your total scholarship over three years, right? Otherwise my math will be off.) Add another 45-50k for living expenses and CM could leave you close to 100k in debt upon graduation. Alternatively, Case at sticker would put you nearly 200k in debt upon graduation.

I actually don't think this is as clear-cut as posters have made it out to be. Case has a significantly better reputation throughout the region, and IBR can cap your monthly loan payments, meaning that 100k of debt is no different than 200k of debt for someone set on working in public interest. But since you're shooting for a job in Cleveland and haven't expressed a particular interest in PI, I would recommend taking CM over Case. A friend at Case told me that the Cleveland legal community is full of loyal CM alumni who are happy to hire their own grads. Obviously, this does not mean that every CM grad will be employed as a lawyer, but he thought that CM grads who network and hustle will be able to find some kind of legal job.

I don't mean to be condescending, but neither choice is very appealing OP. That said, CM seems to be a better option, but not by leaps and bounds.

[Lawl Shcool]

Have you asked CM what the 1L GPA curve is? I remember a friend telling me that median is around C+, and 3.1-3.2 equates to top 20% or so. Not sure how accurate his info is, but it's something to consider.

Assuming you lost the CM scholarship after your first year, your total tuition debt upon graduation would be around 50k. (12k is your total scholarship over three years, right? Otherwise my math will be off.) Add another 45-50k for living expenses and CM could leave you close to 100k in debt upon graduation. Alternatively, Case at sticker would put you nearly 200k in debt upon graduation.

I actually don't think this is as clear-cut as posters have made it out to be. Case has a significantly better reputation throughout the region, and IBR can cap your monthly loan payments, meaning that 100k of debt is no different than 200k of debt for someone set on working in public interest. But since you're shooting for a job in Cleveland and haven't expressed a particular interest in PI, I would recommend taking CM over Case. A friend at Case told me that the Cleveland legal community is full of loyal CM alumni who are happy to hire their own grads. Obviously, this does not mean that every CM grad will be employed as a lawyer, but he thought that CM grads who network and hustle will be able to find some kind of legal job.

I don't mean to be condescending, but neither choice is very appealing OP. That said, CM seems to be a better option, but not by leaps and bounds.

If you racked up 45-50k in living expenses living in Cleveland during school you would be living like a rock star.

[AVBucks4239]

Have you asked CM what the 1L GPA curve is? I remember a friend telling me that median is around C+, and 3.1-3.2 equates to top 20% or so. Not sure how accurate his info is, but it's something to consider.

Assuming you lost the CM scholarship after your first year, your total tuition debt upon graduation would be around 50k. (12k is your total scholarship over three years, right? Otherwise my math will be off.) Add another 45-50k for living expenses and CM could leave you close to 100k in debt upon graduation. Alternatively, Case at sticker would put you nearly 200k in debt upon graduation.

I actually don't think this is as clear-cut as posters have made it out to be. Case has a significantly better reputation throughout the region, and IBR can cap your monthly loan payments, meaning that 100k of debt is no different than 200k of debt for someone set on working in public interest. But since you're shooting for a job in Cleveland and haven't expressed a particular interest in PI, I would recommend taking CM over Case. A friend at Case told me that the Cleveland legal community is full of loyal CM alumni who are happy to hire their own grads. Obviously, this does not mean that every CM grad will be employed as a lawyer, but he thought that CM grads who network and hustle will be able to find some kind of legal job.

I don't mean to be condescending, but neither choice is very appealing OP. That said, CM seems to be a better option, but not by leaps and bounds.

The scholarship for CM is $12k per year. I was told my the admissions staff that the curve is around a B-B+, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were lower. I definitely know it's not a suicide mission like Akron, though. If I were to keep the scholarship all three years (big if probably), it's a tuition difference of $108k.

If you racked up 45-50k in living expenses living in Cleveland during school you would be living like a rock star.

I plan on budgeting somewhere around $1k a month. I lived in complete party house dumps while I was at OSU and want to live in a nice place during my time in law school.

[AVBucks4239]

And, just to add a personal opinion, I think a ton of people associate Case with it's great undergrad prestige and Cleveland State's with is relatively mediocre reputation and fail to just view them as law schools. Just at thought though.