Indiana U Bloomington$ vs. Cardozo$ Forum

[tiansnake]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

[kk19131]

If you don't want to be in/around Indiana, I see no reason why you should go to IU-B.

[tiansnake]

If you don't want to be in/around Indiana, I see no reason why you should go to IU-B.

Thank you for the reply. But I've read quite a lot negative remarks on Cardozo, especially at TLS. It gives me the impression that, even though NYC is a great legal market, going to Cardozo doesn't guarantee access to this market. Given this consideration, and after I did the math for costs at these two schools, IUB costs 20k/yr less than Cardozo, which makes me quite skeptical of going to 'Dozo.
Thanks again, and I'm eager to here more from you guys!

[You Gotta Have Faith]

Honestly, these schools are very, very different in so many ways.

IU-B is a Midwest power and doesn't place very many people into NYC (although it does happen). And although Notre Dame is nearby, IU-B holds its own as one of the significantly better law schools in the region that you could go to. It is also a college town environment, will have a much cheaper COL, and be much less urban.

Cardozo is a respected NYC school, but it is not exactly a power school in its region, or city, either. It's very, very geographically close to the much higher ranked NYU. It is an urban environment with a much higher COL. And it does not place large portions of its class outside of NY and the general Northeast (although, again, it does happen). However, if you want to be in NYC, then that's something to consider.

As far as the peer rankings go, I can't really say much about Cardozo. The only person I ever talked to at length had good things to say though. I can attest that IU-B is generally well thought of among attorneys in its relative region. Or at least, I have talked to several Midwest attorneys and they generally think of IU-B as one of the best schools you can go to. This brings me to my next point:

Please do yourself a favor and don't rely on USNWR for everything. It is a useful guide in a general sort of way. Don't totally neglect its relevance, but also try talking to and finding out from attorneys in these respective regions what they think about the reputations of the given schools. Again, they are very different schools. It's like choosing soup or salad. Find which one is better suited for you and go with it.

[SupraVln180]

IUB is a much much better school. I would go to Bloomington even if you want NYC and here's why:

You would probably need Top 7% or so at NYC Big Law from Cardozo. Getting Top 5% at IUB could definitely get you NYC Big Law or you could transfer up to a much higher school (MVP at least) after your first year.

Also the risk is lower, if you don't get NYC, you can get Big Law in Indiana or Chicago probably in the top third. If you are any lower than the Top 10% at Dozo you won't get a job.

Also, FWIW I know a kid who was in a similar situation as you, instead with the same scholly at Dozo or a large scholly at Wash U. He took Dozo and although I didn't hear this directly from him, through the grapevine I heard he wish he took the other offer and was thinking about dropping out of Dozo. Food for thought.

[tiansnake]

IUB is a much much better school. I would go to Bloomington even if you want NYC and here's why:

You would probably need Top 7% or so at NYC Big Law from Cardozo. Getting Top 5% at IUB could definitely get you NYC Big Law or you could transfer up to a much higher school (MVP at least) after your first year.

Also the risk is lower, if you don't get NYC, you can get Big Law in Indiana or Chicago probably in the top third. If you are any lower than the Top 10% at Dozo you won't get a job.

Also, FWIW I know a kid who was in a similar situation as you, instead with the same scholly at Dozo or a large scholly at Wash U. He took Dozo and although I didn't hear this directly from him, through the grapevine I heard he wish he took the other offer and was thinking about dropping out of Dozo. Food for thought.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I initially had the impression of Cardozo as an "No.52 ranked, with an rapid up-going trend NYC" school. What surprised me is the horrible remarks people generally expressed in forums like TLS. I thought 'Dozo's location could somewhat compensate its low-ranking, but it seems I was deadly wrong. Thank you!

[tiansnake]

Honestly, these schools are very, very different in so many ways.

IU-B is a Midwest power and doesn't place very many people into NYC (although it does happen). And although Notre Dame is nearby, IU-B holds its own as one of the significantly better law schools in the region that you could go to. It is also a college town environment, will have a much cheaper COL, and be much less urban.

Cardozo is a respected NYC school, but it is not exactly a power school in its region, or city, either. It's very, very geographically close to the much higher ranked NYU. It is an urban environment with a much higher COL. And it does not place large portions of its class outside of NY and the general Northeast (although, again, it does happen). However, if you want to be in NYC, then that's something to consider.

As far as the peer rankings go, I can't really say much about Cardozo. The only person I ever talked to at length had good things to say though. I can attest that IU-B is generally well thought of among attorneys in its relative region. Or at least, I have talked to several Midwest attorneys and they generally think of IU-B as one of the best schools you can go to. This brings me to my next point:

Please do yourself a favor and don't rely on USNWR for everything. It is a useful guide in a general sort of way. Don't totally neglect its relevance, but also try talking to and finding out from attorneys in these respective regions what they think about the reputations of the given schools. Again, they are very different schools. It's like choosing soup or salad. Find which one is better suited for you and go with it.

It's helpful, thank you! Am I right in saying that, both being regional schools, IU-B is a much stronger one? Is it fair to say IU-B is a national law school? Thanks again!

[SupraVln180]

IUB is a much much better school. I would go to Bloomington even if you want NYC and here's why:

You would probably need Top 7% or so at NYC Big Law from Cardozo. Getting Top 5% at IUB could definitely get you NYC Big Law or you could transfer up to a much higher school (MVP at least) after your first year.

Also the risk is lower, if you don't get NYC, you can get Big Law in Indiana or Chicago probably in the top third. If you are any lower than the Top 10% at Dozo you won't get a job.

Also, FWIW I know a kid who was in a similar situation as you, instead with the same scholly at Dozo or a large scholly at Wash U. He took Dozo and although I didn't hear this directly from him, through the grapevine I heard he wish he took the other offer and was thinking about dropping out of Dozo. Food for thought.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I initially had the impression of Cardozo as an "No.52 ranked, with an rapid up-going trend NYC" school. What surprised me is the horrible remarks people generally expressed in forums like TLS. I thought 'Dozo's location could somewhat compensate its low-ranking, but it seems I was deadly wrong. Thank you!

Cardozo will drop to about 60 in the rankings and Brooklyn is going to climb slightly, I say they are way closer in the rankings than last year. Fordham will jump too, widening the gap between the good NYC schools and the crappy NYC schools. Either way, rankings aren't important. The fact is Cardozo does get some big firms at OCI, simply because it is down the street from NYU, that doesn't mean they are going to hire someone from Cardozo. Honestly, they only take the kids at the tippy top of the class.

[Justathought]

SupraVln180: I agree the OP should go to Indiana, but I respectfully disagree with some of your reasoning:

You would probably need Top 7% or so at NYC Big Law from Cardozo.

All the evidence we have seen thus far seems to indicate that you could probably squeeze a market paying job from 15% in class. Perhaps top 20% if you network and/or interview great. Even given the expected drop in next years NLJ250 numbers, by the time the OP interviews in 1 1/2 years, I think the placement numbers will be similar or greater than this years reported 12% placement. This will of course vary depending on your definition of biglaw. If we are talking V100 firms, then I'm inclined to agree with your statement.

Getting Top 5% at IUB could definitely get you NYC Big Law or you could transfer up to a much higher school (MVP at least) after your first year.

I agree. Though 95% chance of failure is not something that would make Indiana attractive.

Also the risk is lower, if you don't get NYC, you can get Big Law in Indiana or Chicago probably in the top third.

I agree about more opportunities, and the chance at Indiana biglaw at top 1/3 of the class. I disagree with Chicago at top 1/3.

If you are any lower than the Top 10% at Dozo you won't get a job.

This is why I replied to the post. Its just not true. I assume you meant "you won't get a biglaw job." Again, that depends on how you define biglaw, but I think top 11% at Cardozo is still positioned to avoid the unemployment line.


To the OP:

I actually think your chances at landing a decent NY job are better from Cardozo, but I think Indiana offers a lot more options. I would go there, unless you exclusively want NYC and are comfortable throwing caution to the wind.

[RockyIII]

While a degree from Indiana is more portable than a degree from Cardozo, Indiana is not considered a "national" school.

Also, while I agree that IUB is a better school, its biglaw placement is not that high, maybe 15% tops.

IUB with $ is a good option, but not for NYC unless you already have a job lined up.

[zanda]

Didn't read every post, but it largely comes down to location preference.

Prefer Indiana? Go to Bloomington.

Prefer Cardozo? Consider how strong the preference is. If you really could see yourself happy in either place I'd still go to Bloomington despite a slight preference in favor of NYC.

[kehoema2]

OP I just thought I would weigh in a little on what I know.

IU-B is NOT a national school (I don't think any are truly national schools unless they're in the top 14). What I mean by this is there will be no doubt that people in NYC will recognize IU-B, but I don't think they will have any idea of its reputation. I know I have talked to a few people and they said outside the Midwest it's name doesn't carry the same weight.

Also, I'm not sure IU-B is a good school to go to if you want NYC unless you have connections.

Finally, IU-B's biglaw placement is actually pretty low. This is the one downside of IU-B. I think top 5% could get biglaw in the Midwest, but I don't think they could get it in NYC without connections. Also, as I'm sure you have heard, you shouldn't count of transferring.

To be honest, I think IU-B is a great school. It is actually one of my top choices due to the hefty scholarship they gave me. Assuming you got a similar scholarship, it is a great way to minimize your risk. Also, its cost of living is comparatively low which is great. However, I think for you you should seriously consider if you would want to end up in Indiana/Midwest for at least part of your life if you are planning on IU-B. If you are okay with that, I would think its a much better option than Cardozo but I will admit to having limited knowledge on Cardozo.

[tiansnake]

I know I have talked to a few people and they said outside the Midwest it's name doesn't carry the same weight.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! What I'm afraid, however, is that even IUB is not that well recognized in the east coast, it might still been considered stronger than Cardozo in NYC. That, I have to admit, is one of the horrible possibilities I learned from this and other threads about Dozo. If that became true, plus the high cost at a NYC school, would make Cardozo a really less desirable choice. Thank you again!

[JusticeHarlan]

Also the risk is lower, if you don't get NYC, you can get Big Law in Indiana or Chicago probably in the top third.

Top third isn't getting biglaw from IUB; it wasn't doing so before the economy collapsed, it certainly isn't doing that now.

[Robespierre]

No one here in NYC will care about an Indiana degree unless you're first in the class or editor of the law review (which you can't assume you'll be). A Dozo degree will at least get you a look if your grades are very good. If you definitely want to be in NYC, it's Dozo hands down.

Anywhere else, I guess it's Indiana due to name recognition, USNWR ranking and, frankly, basketball.

[ndirish2010]

Go to IU and learn to like Bloomington and then Indianapolis or maybe Cincinnati.