Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go

Georgetown (45k)
24
21%
Vanderbilt (89k)
28
24%
Texas (91k)
29
25%
Duke (sticker for now)
12
10%
Cornell (sticker for now)
9
8%
UCLA (75k)
13
11%
 
Total votes: 115

ChanceMe233
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby ChanceMe233 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:56 pm

So, my cycle is nearly done. I have yet to hear back from Cornell about merit (same with Duke but Im not hopeful)

I want clerkship or biglaw (preferably not NYC..but it is not a very strong preference)

What do you think?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:59 pm

Texas or Vandy if you want TX or the south.

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:04 pm

)Based on the most recent NLJ250 numbers, I picked Cornell. I know you don't necessarily want NYC Biglaw, but Cornell would give you the best chance given your choices (one could make an argument for GULC, but for me, Cornell > GULC. That is personal preference with a hint of anti-GULC trolling :D ).

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:05 pm

I also voted for Cornell. Small class size & great placement.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:06 pm

I'd like to addend my response to say that if you want the absolute best shot at biglaw, you really should be aiming for NYC.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:07 pm

I just don't see a bad option among your choices. Do you have darts & a dart board ?

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:15 pm

Can some of the UCLA voters explain themselves? He has offers at better schools, some comparable schools with more money and has expressed no strong desire to go to Cali. Why would he choose UCLA over the others?

User avatar
bender18
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bender18 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:20 pm

.
Last edited by bender18 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:23 pm

bender18 wrote:Lol sometimes I wonder if this site is going to single-handedly make the NYC biglaw market one of the most competitive in the country in a couple of years.

NYC biglaw has arguably suffered the least. Cali is dead. DC and Chicago are not too far behind.

NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:24 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:29 pm

bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.


Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.

User avatar
danidancer
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby danidancer » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:36 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.


Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.


I've lived in NYC on $30K a year BEFORE taxes and rent. It was tight, but doable - and I even managed a vacation to London on it. If you can't live comfortably on $75K a year AFTER taxes, rent, debt, you're doing something wrong.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:38 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.


Clothing in NYC is insane? Huh, can't you just buy it online? $74k is more than enough for all the other expenses and you wouldn't even have to live like a pauper. On top of that, I would up the debt repayment and probably not put much away for retirement until my student loans were gone (unless it was more financially advantageous to save than pay down the debt).

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:39 pm

danidancer wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.


Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.


I've lived in NYC on $30K a year BEFORE taxes and rent. It was tight, but doable - and I even managed a vacation to London on it. If you can't live comfortably on $75K a year AFTER taxes, rent, debt, you're doing something wrong.

I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that some people don't realize that 160K is not take home. And my rent figure is for one of the cheapest studios in manhattan. Rent can be easily twice that and more. And what if you lose that biglaw jerb? You will wish you would have saved up some of that money.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:42 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that some people don't realize that 160K is not take home. And my rent figure is for one of the cheapest studios in manhattan. Rent can be easily twice that and more.


There is a difference between saying that "after your expenses you are left with a lot less than 160k" versus saying "after your expenses you are not left with very much."

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:44 pm

bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that some people don't realize that 160K is not take home. And my rent figure is for one of the cheapest studios in manhattan. Rent can be easily twice that and more.


There is a difference between saying that "after your expenses you are left with a lot less than 160k" versus saying "after your expenses you are not left with very much."

Agreed. I phrased it poorly.

User avatar
sanjola
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby sanjola » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:45 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that some people don't realize that 160K is not take home. And my rent figure is for one of the cheapest studios in manhattan. Rent can be easily twice that and more. And what if you lose that biglaw jerb? You will wish you would have saved up some of that money.


You don't have to live in Manhattan.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18408
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:47 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that some people don't realize that 160K is not take home. And my rent figure is for one of the cheapest studios in manhattan. Rent can be easily twice that and more.


There is a difference between saying that "after your expenses you are left with a lot less than 160k" versus saying "after your expenses you are not left with very much."

Agreed. I phrased it poorly.


Fair enough. :)

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:51 pm

Bk, do you know where you are going in the fall?
Since nobody else is posting in here, I don't feel bad about a temporary derail.

User avatar
mr_toad
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby mr_toad » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:59 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.


Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.


Am I reading this wrong? How are you only budgeting 6000/yr for debt payments? If OP were to shoot for NYBIGLAW and drop 200k on Cornell, repayment will cost minimum 24,000 a year... just saying.... this is actually plus one for your argument. That said, even 50k a year in NY AFTER paying rent, taxes, and debt is not bad at all. Better save some of that for the imminent third-year mop-out.

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:02 pm

mr_toad wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:NYC resident disclaimer: 160K in NYC with $200,000 in debt is no picnic. After taxes, debt payments and COL (especially food and rent), you are not left with very much.


This is an exaggeration.


Salary: $160,000
Average State and Federal Taxes: -$56,000
Average Studio Rent/Year: -$24,000
Average Debt Payments/Year: -$6,000

$74,000 after these three expenses. This is your real starting point for the rest of your expenses. Believe me, food and clothing in NYC is insane. And my rent figure is on the low-end. And if you want to put anything away for retirement, you are really not dealing with a whole lotta money.
Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but not a gross exaggeration.


Am I reading this wrong? How are you only budgeting 6000/yr for debt payments? If OP were to shoot for NYBIGLAW and drop 200k on Cornell, repayment will cost minimum 24,000 a year... just saying.... this is actually plus one for your argument. That said, even 50k a year in NY AFTER paying rent, taxes, and debt is not bad at all. Better save some of that for the imminent third-year mop-out.

I low-balled the debt repayment as well as the rent. And the savings was also a big point. Biglaw doesn't last forever for everybody, except the people on TLS :roll:

User avatar
mr_toad
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby mr_toad » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:05 pm

That said, if someone does get such a position, I think the assumption is that you'll take home more money (by 5-20 k per year) due to bonuses and lockstep increases. So what may sound like a difficult financial position may only be so during the first 6-18 months. That said, I personally would save my bonuses and put any salary increases toward debt-pay back. But I'm used to living FAR below my means.

User avatar
MrPapagiorgio
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:08 pm

mr_toad wrote:That said, if someone does get such a position, I think the assumption is that you'll take home more money (by 5-20 k per year) due to bonuses and lockstep increases. So what may sound like a difficult financial position may only be so during the first 6-18 months. That said, I personally would save my bonuses and put any salary increases toward debt-pay back. But I'm used to living FAR below my means.

Mom and pop always told me to not assume increases in future earnings, so I did not include those.

User avatar
mr_toad
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby mr_toad » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:11 pm

True, but at most of those firms (to the best of my knowledge), there is lockstep (standardized increases in compensation across the ranks of those associates brought in at the same time). It's slowly changing and may not be as pervasive as I understand it to be, but a third-year attorney at a NY big law firm will almost alway be making 15-30k more per year (not including bonuses) than a first-year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockstep_compensation

ChanceMe233
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Where to go T14 schools or T20 with $$$$$

Postby ChanceMe233 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:15 pm

haha this thread got derailed pretty badly.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: curry4bfast, OhMyLaw, Sushi and 7 guests