Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

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doak35
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Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:37 pm

So, I believe this is my first post, I apologize in advance if this is redundant or in any way offensive.

I'm looking at starting this Fall, I'm interested in some combination of IP law and/or entertainment law.

My choices at the moment are UC Hastings with little to no money ($18k tops plus the in-state discount), Loyola LA with $69k, or Pepperdine with $60k.

That said, money isn't the main factor, I do have pretty good savings & family support as well. I'm more concerned about job prospects and school reputation. I don't see success as starting with a biglaw $150k job necessarily, but having a degree that's well respected and would help me work in either the LA or SF market.

Thoughts?

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alexonfyre
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby alexonfyre » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:41 pm

Hastings is easily the top choice there from a prestige standpoint, but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is, so I think your choice is really between them and Hastings, and if money is no issue, then I would definitely go to Hastings.
Just my $.02

imbored25
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby imbored25 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:42 pm

if money is not a factor than go with hastings

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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby imbored25 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:43 pm

alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE

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alexonfyre
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby alexonfyre » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:47 pm

imbored25 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE


Fact, Entertainment law is the playground of the t14, but if those are your choices, might as well pick the one who can teach it best.

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Gatriel
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Gatriel » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:04 pm

I assume all 3 require top 1/3rd to keep the scholly?

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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:17 pm

alexonfyre wrote:
imbored25 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE


Fact, Entertainment law is the playground of the t14, but if those are your choices, might as well pick the one who can teach it best.


I have a friend who went to Pepperdine for Entertainment Law. She pretty much said top 10% was necessary and since she was not top 10% Entertainment Law was out of the picture (she did a ton of internships, but they went nowhere). In fact, she couldn't get a law job at all in CA and had to go back to her home state and take the bar there before she could find anything. Graduated in '09... before ITE.

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Gatriel
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Gatriel » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:25 pm

While it is true that the California legal market is very competitive, it is not because of some inadequacy of schools such as Pepperdine and Loyola, rather the market is over saturated with gunners from T14 schools who got sick of the snow being measured in feet and not inches.

I was talking with a guy last night at law school dinner who was not top 10% and just got a job at Gibson Dunn. Its totally possible, just means you have to work hard and do lots of legwork on your own.

From my experiences at Pepperdine thus far the people who are the most successful S&E are not necessarily the people with the best grades, rather the people who can network well, can work a room and can make contacts well. If you are an introvert and want S&E, your best bet is to go to the highest ranked school you can, and work your tail off to get into the top 10%. If you are personable and can converse well with others, then being close to where the action is would work more in your favor.

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:17 pm

Gatriel wrote:I assume all 3 require top 1/3rd to keep the scholly?


Yes- that is true. I do feel pretty comfortable with my ability to do at least that well. It's not the end of the world if I do loose the scholarship, though.
Last edited by doak35 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:19 pm

alexonfyre wrote:
imbored25 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE


Fact, Entertainment law is the playground of the t14, but if those are your choices, might as well pick the one who can teach it best.


I was under the impression that Loyola had a good reputation for entertainment (disproportionate to it's overall ranking)? Maybe I'm wrong? Is the consensus Pepperdine is a better entertainment school?

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alexonfyre
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby alexonfyre » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:48 pm

doak35 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:
imbored25 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE


Fact, Entertainment law is the playground of the t14, but if those are your choices, might as well pick the one who can teach it best.


I was under the impression that Loyola had a good reputation for entertainment (disproportionate to it's overall ranking)? Maybe I'm wrong? Is the consensus Pepperdine is a better entertainment school?


I am basing this on myself, being a more or less average law school applicant, having heard of Pepperdine's entertainment law program, whereas I have not heard anyone mention the others.
I still think Hastings is the best bet though, for whatever you want to do.

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:38 pm

Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!

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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Danteshek » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:43 pm

doak35 wrote:Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!


The school with the most entertainment law offerings is one that you have not mentioned - Southwestern. However, that is a lower ranked school that I do not recommend over the options you have. If you are sure you want to work in entertainment, then I think you need to be in LA to develop your (hopefully already existing) network of entertainment professionals. So Loyola or Pepperdine. Between those two, I do not think there is a significant difference in prospects (though I am partial to LLS since I am a 2L there).

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alexonfyre
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby alexonfyre » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:48 pm

Danteshek wrote:
doak35 wrote:Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!


The school with the most entertainment law offerings is one that you have not mentioned - Southwestern. However, that is a lower ranked school that I do not recommend over the options you have. If you are sure you want to work in entertainment, then I think you need to be in LA to develop your (hopefully already existing) network of entertainment professionals. So Loyola or Pepperdine. Between those two, I do not think there is a significant difference in prospects (though I am partial to LLS since I am a 2L there).


Sort of off-topic as well, I am considering applying for LLS, do you guys get OCIs from northern cal BigLaws at all? Or is it mainly just LA?

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:57 pm

Danteshek wrote:
doak35 wrote:Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!


The school with the most entertainment law offerings is one that you have not mentioned - Southwestern. However, that is a lower ranked school that I do not recommend over the options you have. If you are sure you want to work in entertainment, then I think you need to be in LA to develop your (hopefully already existing) network of entertainment professionals. So Loyola or Pepperdine. Between those two, I do not think there is a significant difference in prospects (though I am partial to LLS since I am a 2L there).


Thanks- how are you liking Loyola so far? To be honest, I was leaning towards Loyola based on Pepperdine's background / conservative reputation & over Hastings because I felt that LA would have better prospects, but it seems like I've seen a lot of mixed press on Loyola. In particular, about the grading curve changes & about job prospects.

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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:29 am

doak35 wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
doak35 wrote:Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!


The school with the most entertainment law offerings is one that you have not mentioned - Southwestern. However, that is a lower ranked school that I do not recommend over the options you have. If you are sure you want to work in entertainment, then I think you need to be in LA to develop your (hopefully already existing) network of entertainment professionals. So Loyola or Pepperdine. Between those two, I do not think there is a significant difference in prospects (though I am partial to LLS since I am a 2L there).


Thanks- how are you liking Loyola so far? To be honest, I was leaning towards Loyola based on Pepperdine's background / conservative reputation & over Hastings because I felt that LA would have better prospects, but it seems like I've seen a lot of mixed press on Loyola. In particular, about the grading curve changes & about job prospects.


I love LLS. Having a great time since I transferred from Southwestern. I made law review and am getting my first article published with an journal at Univ. Md. I like the size and location of the school. I also like how deep the faculty bench is in taxation and business law (my areas). The grading curve change is nothing to worried about. All it means is that a B is a median grade instead of a B-. Loyola used to have one of the harshest curves anywhere and it was unfair to LLS students. As it is now, the LLS curve is still significantly below the curves at USC and UCLA (both B+). W/r/t job prospects, there are too many factors involved to make any kind of blanket statement. If you do well at LLS and have a good strategy for leveraging your strengths and experience in your job search, I think you will be fine.

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:18 pm

Danteshek wrote:
doak35 wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
doak35 wrote:Slightly off topic- does anyone know any good resources for comparing schools with entertainment offerings? The article on this site isn't very comparative or in depth. Thanks!


The school with the most entertainment law offerings is one that you have not mentioned - Southwestern. However, that is a lower ranked school that I do not recommend over the options you have. If you are sure you want to work in entertainment, then I think you need to be in LA to develop your (hopefully already existing) network of entertainment professionals. So Loyola or Pepperdine. Between those two, I do not think there is a significant difference in prospects (though I am partial to LLS since I am a 2L there).


Thanks- how are you liking Loyola so far? To be honest, I was leaning towards Loyola based on Pepperdine's background / conservative reputation & over Hastings because I felt that LA would have better prospects, but it seems like I've seen a lot of mixed press on Loyola. In particular, about the grading curve changes & about job prospects.


I love LLS. Having a great time since I transferred from Southwestern. I made law review and am getting my first article published with an journal at Univ. Md. I like the size and location of the school. I also like how deep the faculty bench is in taxation and business law (my areas). The grading curve change is nothing to worried about. All it means is that a B is a median grade instead of a B-. Loyola used to have one of the harshest curves anywhere and it was unfair to LLS students. As it is now, the LLS curve is still significantly below the curves at USC and UCLA (both B+). W/r/t job prospects, there are too many factors involved to make any kind of blanket statement. If you do well at LLS and have a good strategy for leveraging your strengths and experience in your job search, I think you will be fine.


I'm leaning towards Pepperdine currently, but a big part of the reason is that I feel like Pepperdine has been very proactive in putting me in touch with alumni to talk to, they have networking events in NY (where I live) and LA, and offer tours/class visits pretty much all week. Loyola, on the other hand, hasn't given me a lot to work with. No alumni to talk to, no events in NYC, very limited tour dates (they haven't even announced the few April dates yet - when I will next be in CA). Do you have any advice about how I could get a better feel for Loyola?

Danteshek
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Danteshek » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:18 pm

Yes. Call me. 818 421 9696

Btw, I will be taking the NY bar and moving to DC when I graduate from LLS

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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby arhmcpo » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:33 pm

alexonfyre wrote:
imbored25 wrote:
alexonfyre wrote: but Pepperdine is pretty well respected for entertainment law in the region, if you do well there obviously. Loyola is marginally lower than Pepperdine, but isn't known for entertainment like Pepperdine is,


don't go to pepperdine with the hopes of getting an entertainment law job, very unlikely especially ITE


Fact, Entertainment law is the playground of the t14, but if those are your choices, might as well pick the one who can teach it best.


I was under the impression that unlike Biglaw, networking is much more important in Entertainment law, and specifically location being key so that you have more networking and internship possibilities year round. I mean if there are no jobs then there are no jobs, and like another poster said you can intern and still not get hired at the end of the day. FWIW, I know several people (at Pepperdine) who have been interning at NBC and FOX over the summer and during the school year and I get the impression that while its not guaranteed to get a job no matter how hard you work, they at least get a preference when the company is hiring. IMO getting a presumption in your favor of getting hired is all you can hope for. My buddy will be working at Fox when he graduates but I don't know how the NBC kids will fair. And my friend at UCLA recently told me that despite working at it, he's got no leads at the moment, with a president of a major television studio telling him that you need "luck" to get your first Entertainment Law job. Yikes! Not exactly encouraging. I would go Pepperdine or Loyola on a location basis, plus both schools have a reputation for emphasizing entertainment law while I think Hastings is associated with a more government focus. But maybe someone from Hastings could comment on that.

doak35
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby doak35 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:20 am

I'm resurrecting my thread for a bit of an update.

I declined LLS and am thinking of declining the other two as well. I have a well paying job and not a great list of contacts in what I want to do. I'm thinking of going the "retake" route and reapplying next year if I still want to move forward with this & shoot for a ucla/usc.

Anyone think it's a better idea to just go ahead with one of my choices & transfer if I'm unhappy with it?

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Borhas
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:10 pm

doak35 wrote:I'm resurrecting my thread for a bit of an update.

I declined LLS and am thinking of declining the other two as well. I have a well paying job and not a great list of contacts in what I want to do. I'm thinking of going the "retake" route and reapplying next year if I still want to move forward with this & shoot for a ucla/usc.

Anyone think it's a better idea to just go ahead with one of my choices & transfer if I'm unhappy with it?



retake is a solid choice, aim for UCLA

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bk1
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:13 pm

doak35 wrote:I'm resurrecting my thread for a bit of an update.

I declined LLS and am thinking of declining the other two as well. I have a well paying job and not a great list of contacts in what I want to do. I'm thinking of going the "retake" route and reapplying next year if I still want to move forward with this & shoot for a ucla/usc.

Anyone think it's a better idea to just go ahead with one of my choices & transfer if I'm unhappy with it?


Your odds of transferring are less than 10% so it is a uniformly bad idea.

Good luck with the retake/reapply.

Borhas wrote:aim for UCLA


:roll:

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Borhas
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:17 pm

not sure why you roll your eyes at that

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bk1
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:21 pm

Borhas wrote:not sure why you roll your eyes at that


Because it is a peer of USC.

ETA: It's also that I've seen a ton of posts lately that imply that UCLA is somehow > than USC.

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Borhas
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Re: Hastings vs Loyola or Pepperdine w/ money

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:28 pm

well it kind of is




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