Wash U vs. Notre Dame

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peaches2132
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Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby peaches2132 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:21 pm

Apologies if this has already been discussed (I couldn't find it). Thoughts on Wash U v. ND? (Similar scholarship offers). Hoping to practice on the east coast, likely northeast/NYC.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:39 pm

peaches2132 wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed (I couldn't find it). Thoughts on Wash U v. ND? (Similar scholarship offers). Hoping to practice on the east coast, likely northeast/NYC.


Then why either of these schools? They're both midwestern-focused. Other than that, they're completely equal in placement/prestige whatever. I would go where you feel more comfortable.

If you want NYC, you could theoretically get there from either school, but if you're looking for New England, then I would strongly consider going somewhere else.

justadude55
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby justadude55 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:44 pm

Agree with above poster. If you could get into these 2, particularly ND, you should be able to get into Fordham or maybe even BU/BC, all of which would be better for the northeast.

Between those 2, ND is going to be better for the Northeast thanks to the additional prestige and alumni base.

peaches2132
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby peaches2132 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:04 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Then why either of these schools?


Because they gave me very generous scholarships - Fordham and BU have not.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby FalafelWaffle » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:07 pm

peaches2132 wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed (I couldn't find it). Thoughts on Wash U v. ND? (Similar scholarship offers). Hoping to practice on the east coast, likely northeast/NYC.


Meh, I'd usually say follow the money even if its a small difference. ND does have better name recognition, but that's very subjective, and job prospects are very comparable in their respective regions. But ND, I guess, even though St. Louis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> South Bend

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:11 pm

Neither is going to help you get a job in the northeast. You should be looking at BC/BU/Fordham for the northeast.

Bumi
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Bumi » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:21 pm

peaches2132 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Then why either of these schools?


Because they gave me very generous scholarships - Fordham and BU have not.


I'm also in the boat of appealing much more to midwest schools than to east coast ones. It's kind of frustrating. But despite LSN orthodoxy of geography being the most important consideration, sometimes moving to a new region is worth better career outcomes and/or less debt.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:22 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Then why either of these schools? They're both midwestern-focused. Other than that, they're completely equal in placement/prestige whatever. I would go where you feel more comfortable.

If you want NYC, you could theoretically get there from either school, but if you're looking for New England, then I would strongly consider going somewhere else.


+1

Getting to the Northeast can definitely be done with either of these schools. It would just be easier to do so from BC/BU/Fordham/GW or one of the other schools in that general region, since they focus nearly all their energies there.

That said, if you have personal ties to the Northeast, I think you will find it a little bit easier to end up practicing there, even if you opt for WUSTL/ND. On the other hand, if you have no ties at all and simply fancy the Northeast for some reason, I would aim for BC/BU/Fordham/GW. It can be done from any of these schools, even the Midwest ones, but it will be easier to do from the East Coast ones.

Also, ask yourself how dedicated you are to the Northeast. Would you rather work in a job you find there even if there is a better job in the Midwest/South/West that you could have?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:05 pm

Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:10 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.


http://www.ropesgray.com/thomasburke/
http://www.ropesgray.com/richardmccaulley/

And that's just the first two hits off of one firm. I didn't even search the others. But I would agree that WUSTL has the edge over ND in this area.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:40 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.


http://www.ropesgray.com/thomasburke/
http://www.ropesgray.com/richardmccaulley/

And that's just the first two hits off of one firm. I didn't even search the others. But I would agree that WUSTL has the edge over ND in this area.

First, those aren't just the first two hits off Ropes website, they're the only two hits for ND Law. And second, neither are at their Boston office: one is in New York, the other in Chicago.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:50 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.


http://www.ropesgray.com/thomasburke/
http://www.ropesgray.com/richardmccaulley/

And that's just the first two hits off of one firm. I didn't even search the others. But I would agree that WUSTL has the edge over ND in this area.


CHECK YOU OFFICE LOCATION.

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JCougar
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby JCougar » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:11 am

Blindmelon wrote:Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.


Ropes and Gray's Boston office does OCI at WUSTL.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:57 am

JusticeHarlan wrote:First, those aren't just the first two hits off Ropes website, they're the only two hits for ND Law. And second, neither are at their Boston office: one is in New York, the other in Chicago.


Point well taken Justice Harlan... I shall look at that office location next time. For whatever it's worth, those really were the first two hits I saw when I typed "Notre Dame" in, but I'll just take your word that they are the only two. I was in a hurry, meh.

I find it hard to believe that there aren't any ND Law alumni in the Boston area, but I wouldn't really know either. ND is not my school, so I have no real incentive either way. It just seems to me like at least one or two would exist somewhere, especially (odd as this may sound) given that ND and Boston have such traditional Catholic roots. But whatevs.


Blindmelon wrote:
CHECK YOU OFFICE LOCATION.


OKAY!!!!!!

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Blindmelon
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:29 am

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
CHECK YOU OFFICE LOCATION.


OKAY!!!!!!


Haha. Sorry man, its an above the law thing. Didn't mean it in a really weird way.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:53 am

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:First, those aren't just the first two hits off Ropes website, they're the only two hits for ND Law. And second, neither are at their Boston office: one is in New York, the other in Chicago.


Point well taken Justice Harlan... I shall look at that office location next time. For whatever it's worth, those really were the first two hits I saw when I typed "Notre Dame" in, but I'll just take your word that they are the only two. I was in a hurry, meh.

I find it hard to believe that there aren't any ND Law alumni in the Boston area, but I wouldn't really know either. ND is not my school, so I have no real incentive either way. It just seems to me like at least one or two would exist somewhere, especially (odd as this may sound) given that ND and Boston have such traditional Catholic roots. But whatevs.


Not something I looked into until pursuing this thread either, really. But I think Blindmelon is right, I can't find a single ND Law alum at the three biggest Boston firms (WashU fairs slightly better, fwiw):

Ropes:
Two ND lawyers at non-Boston Offices (LinkRemoved)
Ten WashU lawyers, four in Boston (LinkRemoved).

Goodwin (curly brackets in the URL mess with the hyperlinks, cut and past the whole thing):
One ND Law lawyer at a non-Boston Office.
http://www.goodwinprocter.com/People/Listing.aspx?ls={8CF0DAF0-8A63-485F-A298-0EDF1FC424D1}
Six WashU lawyers, five in Boston.
http://www.goodwinprocter.com/People/Listing.aspx?ls={7930084A-830F-40A1-939C-ABDE45FC3E23}

WilmerHale:
One ND Law lawyer in a non-Boston office.
Two WashU lawyers, one in Boston.

Meanwhile, NALP (LinkRemoved) has Ropes and Foley Lardner recruiting at WashU's for their Boston branches, no Boston law firms recruiting at ND.

:shrug: Make of that what you will. I still wouldn't go to either school if my heart was set on returning to the east coast (though I haven't looked into getting to NYC from these schools).

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danquayle
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby danquayle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:57 am

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Total anecdote - I've NEVER seen or heard of a ND grad in Boston. Ropes and Gray actually does pick up a WUSTL grad here and there though I know.


http://www.ropesgray.com/thomasburke/
http://www.ropesgray.com/richardmccaulley/

And that's just the first two hits off of one firm. I didn't even search the others. But I would agree that WUSTL has the edge over ND in this area.


I would be kind of surprised if Notre Dame doesn't have more sway in New York than WUSTL. Notre Dame has a great name recognition in that market. Of course, no clue if it translated into the legal market... but I'd assume there'd be some flowback. I know tons of New Yorkers go to ND Law.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Wash U vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:08 am

If you really want Boston, you should eat the extra debt and go to BC/BU. If you can see yourself working in the Midwest at all, these are good choices. My biased choice is ND (plus, we outplaced them by 6-7% in NLJ 250 FWIW). If you like college sports at all, that far outweighs the South Bend v. St. Louis argument, which I've never found convincing anyway. Most of the people on this site that trash South Bend have never been here.




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