CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

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4102011
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby 4102011 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:55 pm

This is what UChi says about qualifying jobs:

A graduate must be a paid full-time employee working at least nine months in the calendar year in which the assistance is requested. A graduate must be: (a) engaged in the full-time practice of the law, or in a position normally requiring a law degree; (b) working for the public interest broadly defined; and (c) working for a non-profit organization, defined as a 501(c)(3), government office, or judicial clerkship, other than academia. Graduates employed by the Law School, or those with unpaid positions such as internships and volunteer positions, do not qualify for assistance. Those with questions about eligible postitions should contact the Public Interest Committee. Requests for assistance for part-time work will be considered on a case-by-case basis by the Public Interest Committee. Participants wishing to take a parental leave should petition the Committee; a one year extension may be offered.

d34d9823
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby d34d9823 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:59 pm

dulcatis wrote:This is what UChi says about qualifying jobs:

A graduate must be a paid full-time employee working at least nine months in the calendar year in which the assistance is requested. A graduate must be: (a) engaged in the full-time practice of the law, or in a position normally requiring a law degree; (b) working for the public interest broadly defined; and (c) working for a non-profit organization, defined as a 501(c)(3), government office, or judicial clerkship, other than academia. Graduates employed by the Law School, or those with unpaid positions such as internships and volunteer positions, do not qualify for assistance. Those with questions about eligible postitions should contact the Public Interest Committee. Requests for assistance for part-time work will be considered on a case-by-case basis by the Public Interest Committee. Participants wishing to take a parental leave should petition the Committee; a one year extension may be offered.

That's harsh that they exclude academia. On the other hand, if you're so fortunate as to get a position in academia, who cares about the loans anyway?

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worldtraveler
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:10 pm

Some LRAPs include non-tenure track academia. I don't think any include tenure track.

legalmindedfella
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby legalmindedfella » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:34 pm

The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?

Ghost
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby Ghost » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:50 pm

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Last edited by Ghost on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IndyHCKM
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby IndyHCKM » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:52 pm

Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

spondee
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby spondee » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:20 pm

legalmindedfella wrote:The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?


It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.

Hey-O
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby Hey-O » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:50 pm

spondee wrote:
legalmindedfella wrote:The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?


It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.


Is CLS no longer this way?

cornellbeez
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby cornellbeez » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:30 am

NYU - It has the best LRAP out of these schools.

Chicago's LRAP is one of the worst out of the T-14.

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worldtraveler
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:12 am

legalmindedfella wrote:The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?


This is the case at Berkeley, but it's 120 monthly payments and not 10 years. You can go to the private sector and come back in with no problem.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:22 am

IndyHCKM wrote:Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

Horse's mouth

spondee
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby spondee » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:22 am

Hey-O wrote:
spondee wrote:It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.


Is CLS no longer this way?


Dunno. I'm a 2L at NYU so my info on CLS is two years old. When I was looking, CLS forgave it's assistance loans at five years.

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chris0805
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby chris0805 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:32 am

spondee wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
spondee wrote:It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.


Is CLS no longer this way?


Dunno. I'm a 2L at NYU so my info on CLS is two years old. When I was looking, CLS forgave it's assistance loans at five years.


The bolded is not entirely true. If, under the old plan, you were entitled to 20,000/year forgiveness and, under IBR, they only have to pay 5,000/year, you pay 0 in both scenarios. It means you're probably looking at 150K in loans. That means that after five years in IBR, you're total loans are probably around ~180K because of negative amortization.

Now, at Chicago, you'd just be stuck, with a 180K.

At NYU, they will help you pay that down based on what you would have gotten in the traditional program (15K more a year). So now you get the 75K, but that's no longer half your loans. The difference is owing 75K or 105K at the end of five years.

With interest, that difference ends up being around 35K for NYU or about 130K for Chicago compared to a traditional LRAP. These differences only get worse (and somewhat significantly so) if you have more than 150K in debt).

So when looking at the IBR combination you have to ask yourself (1) Is there any risk that I might switch careers and (2) What is that risk and am I willing to save $X in years 1-5 while risking paying $Y more in years 6-10?

I think NYU has done something amazing in that it pays down some of the negatively amortized debt, which is HUGE in making IBR less of a scary option, but it will still cost you more than a traditional LRAP if you ever switch careers.

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IndyHCKM
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby IndyHCKM » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:
IndyHCKM wrote:Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

Horse's mouth


Thanks!

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mcweanis
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby mcweanis » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:59 pm

can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable

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El_Gallo
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby El_Gallo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:27 pm

mcweanis wrote:can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable


From what I have read they are very comparable and that Columbia's may be slightly better for high paying jobs that qualify.

Does anybody have any anecdotes on how well Chicago places into PI?

twistedwrister
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby twistedwrister » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:24 pm

El_Gallo wrote:
mcweanis wrote:can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable


From what I have read they are very comparable and that Columbia's may be slightly better for high paying jobs that qualify.

Does anybody have any anecdotes on how well Chicago places into PI?


According to the ABA's data, one person (0.5% of the class) went into PI (--LinkRemoved--). I'm not sure what year the ABA's data reflects.

Only two T14 schools had no DOJ Honors Program hires in 2009-10: Chicago and Cornell (http://www.justice.gov/oarm/arm/hp/lawschools.htm)

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mcweanis
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby mcweanis » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:00 pm

wow i cant believe ive never seen that aba sheet before! looking at it really makes it look like nyu is the better for me -

better student teacher ratio
more international job placement
less white
slightly lower tuition
equal if not smaller class sizes
many many MANY more clinic openings
almost 4 times as many people employed in PI
bigger better library
higher bar pass rate

of course, this is only stuff that matters to me, and im cherrypicking to reinforce my nyu decision! chicago listed ONE person working in PI 9 months after graduation...

i also want to know what year this data is from

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BruceWayne
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Re: CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:24 pm

mcweanis wrote:wow i cant believe ive never seen that aba sheet before! looking at it really makes it look like nyu is the better for me -

better student teacher ratio
more international job placement
less white
slightly lower tuition
equal if not smaller class sizes
many many MANY more clinic openings
almost 4 times as many people employed in PI
bigger better library
higher bar pass rate

of course, this is only stuff that matters to me, and im cherrypicking to reinforce my nyu decision! chicago listed ONE person working in PI 9 months after graduation...



i also want to know what year this data is from


:lol: :D :shock: :(




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