Fordham vs BC vs Cardozo (27K)

[whymeohgodno]

BC or BU lolol

[bigkahuna2020]

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

12% ftw!

LoL at assuming that a 15% gap is worth 125k or so in more debt, bar none, period, no questions asked.

In the interested of full disclosure, I voted for BC, but things are not as cut and dry as y'all make it seem.

where the fuck are you getting these numbers? oh and that scholly has a GPA stip on it.

Read up to where he said Cardozo is not even comparable at full scholarship. This stip is the same as mine---top 80%---which to me is as good as gold. Hard work might not get you top 20% but it will get you out of the bottom 20%

[FuManChusco]

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

12% ftw!

LoL at assuming that a 15% gap is worth 125k or so in more debt, bar none, period, no questions asked.

In the interested of full disclosure, I voted for BC, but things are not as cut and dry as y'all make it seem.

where the fuck are you getting these numbers? oh and that scholly has a GPA stip on it.

Read up to where he said Cardozo is not even comparable at full scholarship. This stip is the same as mine---top 80%---which to me is as good as gold. Hard work might not get you top 20% but it will get you out of the bottom 20%

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

[bigkahuna2020]

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

I'm arguing it can go both ways, and there ARE justifiable reasons. My argument is that there is a gradient, and BC is not the absolute choice.
While BC is better in a vacuum, if the OP likes NYC better, it will give him great networking opportunities to be there. Also, smalllaw in NYC/LI pays a bit better than Boston (from what I can tell) and this is all about networking. If he wants to work at smaller firms in NYC, a 60k salary is managebale though tough with that debt (125k or so) whereas at Fordham or BC, if he doesn't hit market, he is surely screwed with 180-200k in debt.

[FuManChusco]

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

I'm arguing it can go both ways, and there ARE justifiable reasons. My argument is that there is a gradient, and BC is not the absolute choice.
While BC is better in a vacuum, if the OP likes NYC better, it will give him great networking opportunities to be there. Also, smalllaw in NYC/LI pays a bit better than Boston (from what I can tell) and this is all about networking. If he wants to work at smaller firms in NYC, a 60k salary is managebale though tough with that debt (125k or so) whereas at Fordham or BC, if he doesn't hit market, he is surely screwed with 180-200k in debt.

all that stuff about NYC small law sounds pretty anecdotal to me. I know I would not want 125k+ debt with the continued COL of NY on a 60k salary even if that is true though.

[whymeohgodno]

I'm guessing the difference is more than 13% just because Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo in almost everything else other than biglaw as well.

[bigkahuna2020]

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

I'm arguing it can go both ways, and there ARE justifiable reasons. My argument is that there is a gradient, and BC is not the absolute choice.
While BC is better in a vacuum, if the OP likes NYC better, it will give him great networking opportunities to be there. Also, smalllaw in NYC/LI pays a bit better than Boston (from what I can tell) and this is all about networking. If he wants to work at smaller firms in NYC, a 60k salary is managebale though tough with that debt (125k or so) whereas at Fordham or BC, if he doesn't hit market, he is surely screwed with 180-200k in debt.

all that stuff about NYC small law sounds pretty anecdotal to me. I know I would not want 125k+ debt with the continued COL of NY on a 60k salary even if that is true though.

As someone who is fine living in NYC on a salary of 33k, I might be biased a bit.

See, if he wants NYC biglaw, this is just a huge crapshoot. Honestly, my opinion is retake. If you are NYC biglaw or bust, you need to go to YLS, HLS, CLS, NYU, UPenn and MAYBE GTown/Duke...if Fordham gave out schollies like others I would say go there, but even with a small schollie it makes absolutely no sense...

Now if he was saying he wanted biglaw and would be fine going down the ladder instead if it didn't work out, I would say retake and shoot for more money at Cardozo. I just don't like the schoolie stips at BLS or SJU enough.

[bigkahuna2020]

I'm guessing the difference is more than 13% just because Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo in almost everything else other than biglaw as well.

The difference is more than 13% in biglaw...because Fordham outplaces Cardozo in other fields? Wha?

[whymeohgodno]

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

I'm arguing it can go both ways, and there ARE justifiable reasons. My argument is that there is a gradient, and BC is not the absolute choice.
While BC is better in a vacuum, if the OP likes NYC better, it will give him great networking opportunities to be there. Also, smalllaw in NYC/LI pays a bit better than Boston (from what I can tell) and this is all about networking. If he wants to work at smaller firms in NYC, a 60k salary is managebale though tough with that debt (125k or so) whereas at Fordham or BC, if he doesn't hit market, he is surely screwed with 180-200k in debt.

all that stuff about NYC small law sounds pretty anecdotal to me. I know I would not want 125k+ debt with the continued COL of NY on a 60k salary even if that is true though.

As someone who is fine living in NYC on a salary of 33k, I might be biased a bit.

See, if he wants NYC biglaw, this is just a huge crapshoot. Honestly, my opinion is retake. If you are NYC biglaw or bust, you need to go to YLS, HLS, CLS, NYU, UPenn and MAYBE GTown/Duke...if Fordham gave out schollies like others I would say go there, but even with a small schollie it makes absolutely no sense...

Now if he was saying he wanted biglaw and would be fine going down the ladder instead if it didn't work out, I would say retake and shoot for more money at Cardozo. I just don't like the schoolie stips at BLS or SJU enough.

You make no sense. Gtown has had the worst placement rate into biglaw out of the T14 for many years. If you had to have a cutline it would have ended at the T6.

Also advocating Duke/Gtown for NYC biglaw over Cornell/Michigan? Lol.

[FuManChusco]

gotcha. no way you can knock that debt under 6 figures though. I just don't see any justifiable reason to take Dozo in this situation. it's not worth the money you save. you even admitted you voted BC. I don't understand what you're arguing for.

I'm arguing it can go both ways, and there ARE justifiable reasons. My argument is that there is a gradient, and BC is not the absolute choice.
While BC is better in a vacuum, if the OP likes NYC better, it will give him great networking opportunities to be there. Also, smalllaw in NYC/LI pays a bit better than Boston (from what I can tell) and this is all about networking. If he wants to work at smaller firms in NYC, a 60k salary is managebale though tough with that debt (125k or so) whereas at Fordham or BC, if he doesn't hit market, he is surely screwed with 180-200k in debt.

all that stuff about NYC small law sounds pretty anecdotal to me. I know I would not want 125k+ debt with the continued COL of NY on a 60k salary even if that is true though.

As someone who is fine living in NYC on a salary of 33k, I might be biased a bit.

See, if he wants NYC biglaw, this is just a huge crapshoot. Honestly, my opinion is retake. If you are NYC biglaw or bust, you need to go to YLS, HLS, CLS, NYU, UPenn and MAYBE GTown/Duke...if Fordham gave out schollies like others I would say go there, but even with a small schollie it makes absolutely no sense...

Now if he was saying he wanted biglaw and would be fine going down the ladder instead if it didn't work out, I would say retake and shoot for more money at Cardozo. I just don't like the schoolie stips at BLS or SJU enough.

I mean I'm not advocating BC here. I wouldn't take any of these options in all honesty. I think BC is the lesser of the evils because it has better job prospects and Dozo is still putting you in debt in excess of 125k. Fordham is just way too expensive imho. great, you live on 33k/year. you can't do that if you want a decently sized apartment or if you want to start a family though.

[whymeohgodno]

I'm guessing the difference is more than 13% just because Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo in almost everything else other than biglaw as well.

The difference is more than 13% in biglaw...because Fordham outplaces Cardozo in other fields? Wha?

PI gigs, clerkships. Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo by a few % here also.

[bigkahuna2020]

You make no sense. Gtown has had the worst placement rate into biglaw out of the T14 for many years. If you had to have a cutline it would have ended at the T6.

Also advocating Duke/Gtown for NYC biglaw over Cornell/Michigan? Lol.

Yea true---Cornell is actually probably right below NYU there. Michigan seems to have some pull, but Georgetown actually has a spectacular alumni base in big and midlaw in NYC. Duke was there just because a lot seem to come here, and the network, from UG on up, is quite strong at the grassroots level.

[bigkahuna2020]

I'm guessing the difference is more than 13% just because Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo in almost everything else other than biglaw as well.

The difference is more than 13% in biglaw...because Fordham outplaces Cardozo in other fields? Wha?

PI gigs, clerkships. Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo by a few % here also.

What PI gigs. While the employment stats are not a great indicator, Fordhams average PI salary is like 30k compared to Cardozo's 50k. I also have seen PI/NGO work seem to be based more on motivation and summer gigs than raw prestige (unless you are talking national ACLU or something)

Clerkship you are probably correct, but outside of certain schools like Emory and BC, I think AIII clerkships really shouldn't enter into the equation

[whymeohgodno]

I'm guessing the difference is more than 13% just because Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo in almost everything else other than biglaw as well.

The difference is more than 13% in biglaw...because Fordham outplaces Cardozo in other fields? Wha?

PI gigs, clerkships. Fordham probably outplaces Cardozo by a few % here also.

What PI gigs. While the employment stats are not a great indicator, Fordhams average PI salary is like 30k compared to Cardozo's 50k. I also have seen PI/NGO work seem to be based more on motivation and summer gigs than raw prestige (unless you are talking national ACLU or something)

Clerkship you are probably correct, but outside of certain schools like Emory and BC, I think AIII clerkships really shouldn't enter into the equation

Yeah true I doubt many schools outside of the T17 have good article 3 clerkship stats.

[bigkahuna2020]

It would also be interesting to get some measure of pretigious state level clerkships. I for one, consider clerking at any state supreme court or at a large state (NY/CA/TX etc) superior court probably is a great pathway to many good careers

[whymeohgodno]

It would also be interesting to get some measure of pretigious state level clerkships. I for one, consider clerking at any state supreme court or at a large state (NY/CA/TX etc) superior court probably is a great pathway to many good careers

Depends what you think good careers are.

[JusticeHarlan]

BC Law is not nearly as accessible, and I really do not think it is possible to go there without a car, at least for most people.

While the law school isn't quite as easy to get to as if it were directly on the T, and having a car certainly makes it easier, I think you'd be surprised how many people don't have cars, and manage just fine. Saying it isn't possible for most people is simply refuted by experience.

[alumniguy]

BC Law is not nearly as accessible, and I really do not think it is possible to go there without a car, at least for most people.

While the law school isn't quite as easy to get to as if it were directly on the T, and having a car certainly makes it easier, I think you'd be surprised how many people don't have cars, and manage just fine. Saying it isn't possible for most people is simply refuted by experience.

Agreed. As I mentioned, went to BC Law w/o a car. Yes there were times I wanted to shoot myself, but for the most part it was just a typical commute - a mix of walking, bus and subway.

On an aside, I just stumbled on to this site recently (gotta love some down time!) and was pretty surprised at the suburban vs. urban discussion of BC. There seems to be a lot of focus on BC being located in Newton (especially in comparison to BU's location in Boston), which frankly, is a bit absurd. I would guess that upwards of 90% of BC Law's students live in Boston/Brookline/Cambridge proper. While the law school is indeed in Newton - a suburb of Boston - once you get on the T or get in your car to go home for the night, you're "back" in the city. Can you live in Back Bay or South End and still get to BC law (gasp, without a car!), yes. I know people who have done it. Is an hour commute for everyone, not at all. Do a significant minority of students choose to live in Back Bay, South End, Cambridge, Somerville, etc., regardless of the commute,absolutely. [Full disclosure, Cambridge and Somerville would be extremely tough w/o having a car].

To get further in the weeds, as a 1L you basically have (or should have) little time for nightlife and thus, where you are living should be less of a concern. M-F is usually going to be all about studying. Your weekends are a bit more free, but I'd guess that most 1L's at least browse through materials for a portion of the weekend. As a 2L and 3L, life becomes much, much more relaxed (especially as a 3L if you have a job lined up). You have complete control over structuring your class schedule. If you want to move to a better neighborhood in Boston that is farther away from the law school, then structure your classes so as to only have classes MWF, or no classes before 11am. I moved closer into Boston (further away from BC law) after my 1L year and it infinitely improved my QoL.

[alumniguy]

Tough call. If you are top 1/3 in both, you'll be competitive for NYC biglaw coming from both Fordham and BC. However, if not, then you're going to need to look at midlaw and/or small law. I don't think BC has the best track record here (probably because most BC students don't want midlaw or small law in NYC, but would be willing to go to NYC for big law). Fordham is going to have many more connections and alumni that have hiring power.

I don't think it is impossible to be below 1/3 from BC and get a NYC job, but you're going to have to work and really sell yourself - Career Services at BC is not useful for midlaw / small law in NYC (but they are good at midlaw / small law for Boston and the NE generally).

Even though I went to BC and enjoyed it there, I think you should go to Fordham unless you can get BC to match or beat Fordham's scholarship offer.