2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)

[thecilent]

Someone's not on their job. Where the f*ck are the rankings? Are there no worthy admission office trolls out there? Publishing brats destined for law school? I'm saddened that such a day has come. Join me as we say farewell to TLS. Everything that it once was, is no more. Dead.

This is really sad. I assumed we'd have the rankings in FEB, everything I heard about TLS is a lie, a lie I say

There's not going to be any leak bc the rankings are coming out first this year on the web. Last year the print were out first, so some chick went to a stand in nyc and then scanned the pages.

[glitched]

i believe usnews publishes all their metrics for their rankings... so if you really wanted to make a list of rankings that are relevant to you and your interests, you can mess with the %s they assign to get a list thats important to you. i think rankings are super useful. whether you believe it or not, everyone ranks the schools in some form at least unofficially in their head. For example, before an application cycle when you say "oh yeah Harvard is my number one choice. then probably columbia" or something like that, you're ranking the schools. usnews metrics make a lot of sense to me - you should look it up if you haven't. it's a shame that some schools lie about it when they report to usnews, but i don't know if it's my being naive, but i'm going to trust in most school's reporting.

[danquayle]

Okay you guys have convinced me.

Man, I really hope WUSTL moves up to 17 or 18 so we can get some more recruiters at OCI! If we don't move up, I might have to transfer to a "school on the rise."

The point was never that year to year fluctuations matter. The point was that trends do indeed matter, and sustained improvement in US News rankings can attract a stronger student profile, which will then attract stronger recruiters. Recruiters go to where they perceive the strongest students go. They favor Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc because they know those schools only admit the strongest students. It has little to do with "qualify of education."

The fact is that the students use the US News rankings to influence their decisions. What makes the US News rankings a credible source is that people actually do in fact buy into them. Even if its just students, that's enough.

[Grizz]

Can the school get you the job you want in the region you want? Sometimes this lines up with the rankings. Often times it doesn't. Decent starting point to begin your research, but otherwise fairly useless.

[romothesavior]

usnews metrics make a lot of sense to me - you should look it up if you haven't.

I have, and they are hilariously dumb. Peer assessment as the most important factor? Employment at graduation (one of the absolute worst metrics known to man, due to rampant manipulation by the schools) being one of the most important factors? Including things like student/faculty ratio and library resources? Even the assessment scores they use are suspect. The most recent partner assessment survey only had like 100 responses out of 700 sent out.

[ihp12]

To be honest, I think this scenario is where the rankings matter the least. Maybe if a firm is considering someone from a school they rarely hire from, they check out USNWR to see how that school stacks up compared to schools they do hire from frequently. But if you are interviewing in NYC, the firms are filled with people from NYU and CLS, and they already have their viewpoints of the two schools, which are not going to suddenly change if NYU leapfrogs CLS for a year or two. In a T2 context, the same goes for Temple and Villanova. They are always close to each other, all the firms in Philly have people from both, and I guarantee you no local firms are making hiring decisions based on which is marginally higher in a given year. I bet the same exact thing is true in GA and FL with UF/FSU/UGA/Emory. Other than that, the only reasons attorneys care so much about their alma maters is their own vanity and bragging rights. Wanting the dean fired due to rankings is no different than wanting the football coach fired after a big bowl loss.

You assume thats a bad thing. Bragging rights its super important to bros.

+1 on the regional rankings not mattering. No law firm in Texas is gonna start thinking differently of SMU vs. UH because of marginal differences. Maybe if SMU jumped to #25 and UH stayed around 60. But SMU moving to 38 and UH moving to 60 isn't gonna do squat.

[Pricer]

To be honest, I think this scenario is where the rankings matter the least. Maybe if a firm is considering someone from a school they rarely hire from, they check out USNWR to see how that school stacks up compared to schools they do hire from frequently. But if you are interviewing in NYC, the firms are filled with people from NYU and CLS, and they already have their viewpoints of the two schools, which are not going to suddenly change if NYU leapfrogs CLS for a year or two. In a T2 context, the same goes for Temple and Villanova. They are always close to each other, all the firms in Philly have people from both, and I guarantee you no local firms are making hiring decisions based on which is marginally higher in a given year. I bet the same exact thing is true in GA and FL with UF/FSU/UGA/Emory. Other than that, the only reasons attorneys care so much about their alma maters is their own vanity and bragging rights. Wanting the dean fired due to rankings is no different than wanting the football coach fired after a big bowl loss.

I can agree with that to an extent. That is a good point. But going from what you said about attorneys boasting about their alma maters, I think that if UGA were to pass Emory, then the UGA alumni could possibly swing pulling in more graduates from there. I know that Emory and UGA both have established reputations in the region, but I still think that this could make a difference. This is irrelevant, however, because it is very unlikely that UGA will jump that high, at least anytime soon.

I would like to note that when I said earlier I was trying to decide between UGA and Texas, I do not mean I am deciding between #28 and #15. I am deciding between ~$60k CoA and 10% NLJ 250 placement in a crowded secondary market (Atlanta) in my home state and ~$135k CoA and >30% NLJ 250 placement in two secondary markets (Dallas, Houston) in a state I think I could enjoy.


edit: Sorry, used the wrong symbol. I meant <30% NLJ 250 placement for Texas. I think it was around 28% in the most recent data.

[northwood]

still cant belive this debate is going on- and people are taking it seriously


You need to figure out where you want to practice. The vast majority of people are going to go to a regional school. You need to go to a school in the geographic area you want to work in. Once you figure that out- then do your own research- and use the rankings as a rough guide ( t1 t2 ttt tttt). Why would you let some ranking make the decision for you? It can help, but in the end the magazine sint going to go to that school- you are. Go where you are the most comfortable.

[glitched]

usnews metrics make a lot of sense to me - you should look it up if you haven't.

I have, and they are hilariously dumb. Peer assessment as the most important factor? Employment at graduation (one of the absolute worst metrics known to man, due to rampant manipulation by the schools) being one of the most important factors? Including things like student/faculty ratio and library resources? Even the assessment scores they use are suspect. The most recent partner assessment survey only had like 100 responses out of 700 sent out.

i didn't say the weight of their metrics make sense - that's for you to decide. they have the data, it's your job to do with it what you want.

and yeah - the responses and statistics are crappy, but it's all we've got. and again - it's a shame that schools lie so much.

[Grizz]

I would like to note that when I said earlier I was trying to decide between UGA and Texas, I do not mean I am deciding between #28 and #15. I am deciding between ~$60k CoA and 10% NLJ 250 placement in a crowded secondary market (Atlanta) in my home state and ~$135k CoA and >30% NLJ 250 placement in two secondary markets (Dallas, Houston) in a state I think I could enjoy.

Sounds like a pretty good way to decide to me.

[unc0mm0n1]

OH MY GOD I"M IN AT HARVARD. sorry guys it was the first post I was in I just got JR2 I can't even type.

[glitched]

OH MY GOD I"M IN AT HARVARD. sorry guys it was the first post I was in I just got JR2 I can't even type.

I don't know if you know this... but usnews ranks harvard only at number 2... you really should wait until tomorrow when the usnews rankings are out before celebrating. if they are still at number 2, you should definitely retake your life and get some sick softs to get into yale cause they are holistic.

[akili]

OH MY GOD I"M IN AT HARVARD. sorry guys it was the first post I was in I just got JR2 I can't even type.

CONGRATS! That's freaking awesome. Forget about the rankings, go drink!

[thecilent]

OH MY GOD I"M IN AT HARVARD. sorry guys it was the first post I was in I just got JR2 I can't even type.

I don't know if you know this... but usnews ranks harvard only at number 2... you really should wait until tomorrow when the usnews rankings are out before celebrating. if they are still at number 2, you should definitely retake your life and get some sick softs to get into yale cause they are holistic.

Yeah man, if Stanford passes Harvard you're kinda beat

[unc0mm0n1]

lol well I'm still waiting on yale. (truthfully no way I'm going to yale over harvard, you guys can have New Haven).

[beachbum]

Way to derail our awesome thread, asshole.

(jk, and congrats. I dunno what else to say, but: winning bro, winning. Now go get drunk).

[MattThiessen]

Way to derail our awesome thread, asshole.

(jk, and congrats. I dunno what else to say, but: winning bro, winning. Now go get drunk).

Shoot, I think we can safely assume that Unc0mm0n1 is Bi-Winning.

[thecilent]

(truthfully no way I'm going to yale over harvard, you guys can have New Haven).

srs?

[Stringer6]

sheen jokes are losing

[fatduck]

(truthfully no way I'm going to yale over harvard, you guys can have New Haven).

srs?

harvard is awesome. i was there last night. saw some undergrads in their room doing some weird science (there were strobe lights), cranking out facebooks left and right.

[thecilent]

(truthfully no way I'm going to yale over harvard, you guys can have New Haven).

srs?

harvard is awesome. i was there last night. saw some undergrads in their room doing some weird science (there were strobe lights), cranking out facebooks left and right.

lol

[cool of law]

Way to derail our awesome thread, asshole.

(jk, and congrats. I dunno what else to say, but: winning bro, winning. Now go get drunk).

Shoot, I think we can safely assume that Unc0mm0n1 is Bi-Winning.

+1 on the congrats on Harvard

[Stringer6]

i was there last night. saw some undergrads in their room doing some weird science (there were strobe lights), cranking out facebooks left and right.

equations all over the windows?

[TyrodTaylor]

what if harvard drops 5 spots in the rankings tomorrow!

[Jack Smirks]

(truthfully no way I'm going to yale over harvard, you guys can have New Haven).

srs?

harvard is awesome. i was there last night. saw some undergrads in their room doing some weird science (there were strobe lights), cranking out facebooks left and right.

LMAO.