2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)

[1234543523]

what are you implying?

That you mad.

about arbitrary mods and breaking the law? yep!

Oh, that's not why you mad.

[General Tso]

what are you implying?

That you mad.

about arbitrary mods and breaking the law? yep!

Oh, that's not why you mad.

whatever you think about my intentions is irrelevant. but FWIW my school stayed the same rank as last year, and even improved in some of the categories.

[1234543523]

[20160810]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

[birdlaw117]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

[General Tso]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

rankings are available to anyone for free on the USWNR website.

LSAT/GPA for c/o 2013 is not available anywhere else, nor is the employment data, peer assessment scores, etc. all of which is contained in this thread.

[20160810]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

It's not a violation of anyone's rights to say that according to USNews and World Report, UC Hastings is the 42nd-best law school in the country.

[Hannibal]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

rankings are available to anyone for free on the USWNR website.

LSAT/GPA for c/o 2013 is not available anywhere else, nor is the employment data, peer assessment scores, etc. all of which is contained in this thread.

http://screamingsports.typepad.com/my_w ... s-fan.html

[98234872348]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

rankings are available to anyone for free on the USWNR website.

LSAT/GPA for c/o 2013 is not available anywhere else, nor is the employment data, peer assessment scores, etc. all of which is contained in this thread.

wut? (LinkRemoved) I am sure almost every other school has a similar posting...

[20160810]

Nobody tell me it's raining outside right now, or Tso is going to call The Weather Channel and say that TLS is stealing their proprietary data!

[birdlaw117]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

It's not a violation of anyone's rights to say that according to USNews and World Report, UC Hastings is the 42nd-best law school in the country.

Agreed. But you can use copyrighted material for academic purposes (which I feel like LSAT prep would qualify for). I really do think you guys are doing it the best way, I just wanted your thoughts since you responded. Thanks!

[Hannibal]

PS...he mad.

[Lawlcat]

The Princess speaks truth. USNWR is just yanking everyone's chain enough to stir up attention without overdoing it and ruining their "believability". It's kind of hilarious what they did with the "T14" this year: dropping a school out of the T14 would be a shocker, but perhaps too much so. They ingeniously went half-and-half and just elevated a school to the T14. It's like jostling the pinball table without tripping the TILT sensor. And these subtle changes have very little to do with employment outcomes.

Confirmed placement in "big firms" that probably pay on the right side of the bimodal distribution plus confirmed Article III clerkship, each as a percentage of the number of JDs awarded.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7edd4baeb0.png

I put these in USNWR order (2011...lazy) in part because I think it's useful to show that the USNWR rankings do not clearly correlate with employment outcomes. I arbitrarily stopped it at 34 or whatever, but it goes on like that (with I imagine variations that USNWR doesn't predict) for a while.

I think it's really dishonest for USNWR to report "employment" figures. As her highness says, McDonald's counts. It exploits the socially-reinforced expectations that "if you're employed out of law school, you're employed as a lawyer" and further "being a lawyer means you wear a suit and make six figures but you're kind of evil".

Ok, I heart you completely for doing this, and I happen to agree in full with your conclusions, but please do not call me that. OS will do nicely.

Oh, and I especially wanted to flag your last conclusion, because it's 100% the opposite of public interest work. For the most part, nobody wears a suit outside of court, it's rare to make six figures, and the people are incredibly kind, but I know that isn't how most people even conceptualize lawyers. The sad thing is that a lot of schools probably just wish everyone would try for biglaw so they'd have more salary stats to juke. I do think my school is comparatively honest-- I looked at the numbers we published for '09, and they seem to accord with reality. http://law.fordham.edu/career-planning/17281.htm

Your greater point remains: the rankings =/= a linear picture of employment + clerkship numbers. I think most people realize they need to be taken with a grain of salt.

My apologies; it's just such a memorable moniker that it practically demanded to be typed. From now on I'll stick with "OS", which isn't bad either.

Those Fordham numbers are nicely detailed. I was particularly impressed with the firm size breakdown. It seems that they're acknowledging "unknowns", too. On the downside, the use of medians is a bit dicey when we know that there isn't a smooth curve with a single peak. I'd rather see a bar graph or something with salary ranges. (e.g. buckets for 0-40K, 40-60K, 60-80K, 80-100K, ... )

Here's the NLJ 250 data for the class of 2009:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108678

(Showing about 30%.)

The problem with the Fordham site is that I'm pretty sure the average person glancing at it would figure that at least 60% or so of graduates made 160K. (And it'd be easy to glance at it and do the usual "Oh ... 90% ... average 160K ... sweet! 90% of people make six figures!" thing.) Perhaps NLJ 250 is severely underinclusive, but I'd always been under the impression that it's if anything overinclusive. A percentage breakdown by salary would be more persuasive.

Totally with you on PI.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

I'm pretty sure schools' LSAT medians and yield percentages aren't protected by copyright.

Definitely true. But what about the rankings themselves? (Not saying this is something the mods should be worried about, I'm just curious).

I'm assuming the big difference is the signed confidentiality agreement with the LSAC material, but that would seemingly only apply to score release date and not LSAT prep.

rankings are available to anyone for free on the USWNR website.

LSAT/GPA for c/o 2013 is not available anywhere else, nor is the employment data, peer assessment scores, etc. all of which is contained in this thread.

You're backing yourself off a cliff with wrong assumptions to defend an argument you've already lost, and it's making you look childish

[1234543523]

PS...he mad.

Definitely mad.

[General Tso]

well since TLS poster "SBL" and the rest of you guys are so cocksure, I'll just shoot a quick email over to Mr. Morse and see what happens. arrivederci amigos!

[Bildungsroman]

herp derp derp

Indeed.

[1234543523]

well since TLS poster "SBL" and the rest of you guys are so cocksure, I'll just shoot a quick email over to Mr. Morse and see what happens. arrivederci amigos!

[Ford Prefect]

I don't know who this shady poster "SBL" character is, but he sounds like a monster.

[1234543523]

I don't know who this shady poster "SBL" character is, but he sounds like a monster.

[General Tso]

Top-Law-Schools posting paid USNWR data
Hi, just a quick heads up that the bloggers at TLS are copying and pasting paid USNWR data on their website. I've alerted the moderators of that forum, who have brushed off my complaints.
See posters "Eagles_Legendz" and "Mickey Quicknumbers" below:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148529&start=1225
[report comment]
General Tso of CA @ Mar 15, 2011 23:57:28 PM

[Hannibal]

well since TLS poster "SBL" and the rest of you guys are so cocksure, I'll just shoot a quick email over to Mr. Morse and see what happens. arrivederci amigos!

You aren't allowed to use the italian language outside of Italy. Brb, emailing Berlusconi.

[Hannibal]

Top-Law-Schools posting paid USNWR data
Hi, just a quick heads up that the bloggers at TLS are copying and pasting paid USNWR data on their website. I've alerted the moderators of that forum, who have brushed off my complaints.
See posters "Eagles_Legendz" and "Mickey Quicknumbers" below:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148529&start=1225
[report comment]
General Tso of CA @ Mar 15, 2011 23:57:28 PM

Did you forget your keys?

[1234543523]

Top-Law-Schools posting paid USNWR data
Hi, just a quick heads up that the bloggers at TLS are copying and pasting paid USNWR data on their website. I've alerted the moderators of that forum, who have brushed off my complaints.
See posters "Eagles_Legendz" and "Mickey Quicknumbers" below:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148529&start=1225
[report comment]
General Tso of CA @ Mar 15, 2011 23:57:28 PM

That is to say, he mad.

[FuManChusco]

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